Debate MELTDOWN: Worst Opponent Yet: Austin Peterson Libertarian Debate Vs Jay Dyer

1:41Jim BobOh, what the hell is going on? Yes. Thank you, chat, for reminding me how late we are. That's okay. This is a show worth waiting for. It's mixed bag panel.

1:50Jim BobIt's number... What what number are we at? We're at number five, you guys. It's already number five. I can't believe it. It's going great.

1:59Jim BobSo we have some... We... Some guests tonight, some exciting guests. I'll bring the first one up. He'll introduce himself, where he can find him, some of his background

2:07Jim Boband, and whatnot. Welcome to the stage, Austin Peterson.

2:11Austin PetersonHey. Thanks for having me, Jim Bob. It's an honor. Appreciate it. It's good to see you again. Yeah. People call me AP for Liberty.

2:16Austin PetersonYou can find me everywhere,

2:18Austin PetersonInstagram, Facebook, and Twitter, but probably the best place to catch me is on my wake up America show. So if you go to rumble.com/apforliberty,

2:28Austin PetersonI've got a five day a week morning talk show. It's a great way to start your day, stay informed about what's happening in the world,

2:34Austin Petersonand, yeah, keep up to date with everything in the world of liberty. So thank you.

2:38Jim BobAwesome. Thanks for being here. And, Jay,

2:41Jim Boblet the audience know.

2:43Jay DyerYeah. Jay Dyer. I cover everything from geopolitics

2:46Jay Dyerto movies, film symbolism,

2:48Jay Dyeresoteric

2:49Jay Dyerreligious debates,

2:52Jay Dyeropen

2:53Jay Dyerpanel madness,

2:54Jay Dyerferal wine moms with Virginia slims in their mouth calling in to argue and rap battle with me, literally.

3:00Jay DyerWe also do the... I also do the fourth hour of the Alex Jones show every Friday.

3:05Jay DyerAnd...

3:07Jay DyerYeah. That's it. I got a few books. You can find me over at j's analysis or on YouTube under j dyer or on Twitter as well and Instagram.

3:14Jim BobAwesome. Alright. Well, thanks for being here, Jay. I... One of the first things Austin said is... Oh, I said, oh, we have other panelists like Jay. And he said, we're we're gonna talk about God, are we? I said, no.

3:24Jim BobIt's come... It could it could come up, but this is a more relaxed,

3:28Jim Bobsort of fun. We don't... We try to stay a little bit away from, like, the meta and the philosophy because it... You know, we like it, but it it could bore some people. But we do wanna get into some technology,

3:38Jim Boband, I actually wanted to start with this as, Jay has been covering, you know, smart cities and these concepts for many years now.

3:45Jim BobAnd now people are starting to really hone in on on on what it is. Someone like Patrick Wood, I think his name is, wrote these great books where he outlines all of the companies why they're positioning themselves the way they are.

3:58Jim BobAnd from my view, it kinda looks like this. If you're a big company and you could mass produce and be the, you know, the explicit provider of all products and services, well, the next step would be take ownership in this over the city. Right? And take some sort of,

4:14Jim Bobstake in the city kinda like BlackRock seems to be doing. And, and this is an interesting topic because it seems that technology companies along with products and service companies are looking at cities now as platforms. Now that sounds wacky. Right? We go, what's a platform? Oh, it's the thing on my phone I use. Are you on that platform? Well, platforms come with TOS, and they come with community guidelines and all these things. So what if a city was owned by a company and the company had TOS and community guidelines

4:43Jim Bobthat in a way maybe replaced,

4:46Jim Bobyou know, your bill of rights, your your... Basically, everything we know about how to behave in in society. I think that's the plan. I might be... It might be hyperbolic.

4:56Jim BobI don't think so. But I did wanna get your take, Austin,

5:01Jim Bobis... I'm gonna let... I'm gonna actually let Jay give a summary of that, see if I missed anything. But I did wanna take your position, Austin, because as a libertarian,

5:10Jim BobI wonder, I wanted to know from you how you see that

5:15Jim Bobprogressing and if there's any red flags that might come up from the the the view, the principal view of libertarianism.

5:22Jim BobBecause it seems like if a company can take over a city, a company can take over larger than a city. And if they buy it, you know, in a way, it's fair game. Right? So, Jay, give a quick summary of smart cities and what you think, and then I'll let Austin,

5:35Jim Bobtackle that hard question.

5:38Jay DyerYeah. It's interesting that you mentioned

5:40Jay Dyerthis idea of cities as platforms. I remember watching, Vitalik,

5:44Jay Dyerthe cocreator of Ethereum,

5:47Jay Dyernot too long ago talk about the possibility of creating

5:51Jay Dyercities as platforms,

5:52Jay Dyerand they're marketing it at least in the crypto side and maybe even Trump, has given a nod at times to the idea freedom cities. I don't exactly know what that means. But the idea is that, well, there will be smart cities.

6:04Jay DyerIt's unavoidable.

6:06Jay DyerSo maybe we can have, like, a libertarian smart city where it's where it's freedom oriented versus,

6:11Jay DyerI don't know, you know, Google and Bill Gates' smart city, which will not be freedom oriented. It will be, you know, oriented towards, I'm sure, you know, carbon credits, controlling your movements,

6:24Jay Dyerrationing meat, all the things that we would expect the dystopian smart city to be. I think the idea comes out of the technocratic movement in the the nineteen twenties, thirties, forties,

6:36Jay Dyerwhich was kind of a weird fringe

6:38Jay Dyerversion of socialism at the time,

6:41Jay Dyerand it kinda got resurrected

6:43Jay Dyerwhen Brezinski

6:44Jay Dyerwrote,

6:45Jay Dyerbetween two ages. There was always technocrats. There was always people in different,

6:49Jay Dyerpower strata or or or strata, the power structure that believed in technocracy and thought they could have these these,

6:56Jay Dyeryou know, plastic computer AI cities of the future. But

7:00Jay DyerI think Bezinski really breathed new life into it with between two ages. It it it ended up being something that the Rockfeller's thought was a great idea. They put a lot of money behind it, promoting it, and it really became,

7:10Jay Dyeryou know, US policy

7:12Jay Dyerofficially

7:13Jay Dyerthroughout the Cold War.

7:15Jay DyerAnd then the corporation Silicon Valley really...

7:19Jay DyerSilicon Valley, I view as a bunch of kind of private port... Private corporate partnerships that also

7:24Jay Dyeradopted this model under a veneer of libertarianism.

7:28Jay DyerSo

7:28Jay Dyerthat's the danger, I think, is that it's... It'll be sold as convenience,

7:33Jay Dyersecurity, utopia.

7:34Jay DyerAnd even the ones that are billed as kind of libertarian, I would be very suspicious of.

7:39Jim BobYeah. Before you answer to this, Austin, welcome to the stage, Chad. Thanks for sorting that out. Why don't you introduce yourself to the audience? Let us know where we can find you and what you're all about.

7:49Chad O. JacksonYeah. Can everybody hear me okay?

7:51Jim BobYes, sir.

7:53Chad O. JacksonOkay. Good. Sorry. I was having

7:55Chad O. JacksonInternet complications at the

7:58Chad O. Jacksonmost convenient time. So... Yeah. So my name is Chad o Jackson.

8:02Chad O. JacksonI am an independent researcher and

8:05Chad O. Jacksonbusiness owner here in Dallas, Texas.

8:08Chad O. JacksonI'm also a film producer or co producer,

8:11Chad O. JacksonI should say.

8:14Chad O. JacksonI can be found on YouTube at Chad o Jackson as well as Instagram at Chad o Jackson and and x at Chad o Jackson. So.

8:23Chad O. JacksonAwesome. Yeah. I

8:25Jim BobGood. And so

8:26Chad O. JacksonI'm not a repop... I'm sorry. Yeah.

8:28Jim BobOh, sorry. No. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. You're not a what?

8:31Chad O. JacksonI'm not a republican. I'm not a democrat. I'm I'm

8:35Chad O. Jacksonpolitically interested,

8:36Chad O. Jacksonbut

8:37Chad O. JacksonI don't believe that any of the political parties or anything like that have the

8:42Chad O. Jacksonanswer to our problems. I believe that most of the problems that we have can be handled at the individual

8:48Chad O. Jacksonor ground level. So that's my take on politics or that's the approach that I take on politics. So

8:55Jim BobGot it. Alright. Well, thank you for that. Austin, now you you see the challenge of this question. Right? The smart city

9:02Jim Bobcomplex as Jay and I laid it out in our various ways,

9:06Jim Bobyou know, bigger companies owning more

9:09Jim Bobof everything

9:11Jim Boband,

9:12Jim Bobhaving a natural or unnatural monopoly on it. You decide. But the thing is, what what occurs now? Like, what's your take from a from a libertarian position?

9:22Jim BobWhat are some of the advantages you see? But are there some things that you're going, well, maybe... I don't know. Maybe there's something, off here about about companies taking over like this?

9:33Austin PetersonNot... I mean, not so much. I I do like what I'm hearing from Chad and Jay, and I I definitely think that there's a little there's a little Chad and a little Jay inside of me. Right? So so, maybe they're the angels on my shoulder. But how can corporations

9:48Austin Petersonpossibly screw things up more than the government already has? I mean, how can you not be excited about a little bit of an experiment with anarcho capitalism?

9:57Austin PetersonHow can you not look at what Javier Male is doing in Argentina and not be like

10:03Austin PetersonRon Swanson,

10:04Austin Petersonslash it, slash it, slash slash it, and have an opportunity for Samsung

10:10Austin Petersonwho builds these beautiful cell phones that I love. My Galaxy Samsung s 21 Ultra. You know, there's a little community outside of Seoul, speaking of South Korea where our phones are manufactured.

10:22Austin PetersonThis is a really fascinating case of what you guys are talking about. It's a modern private city called Songdo,

10:29Austin Petersonbuilt from scratch, 1,500 acres of reclaimed land. It's a smart city known for its advanced technology,

10:35Austin Petersoneco friendly design,

10:37Austin Petersonhigh quality infrastructure developed by Gayo International,

10:41Austin Petersonand the Incheon Metropolitan

10:43Austin PetersonCity, Songdo. It's a new model of urban development focusing on sustainability,

10:47Austin Petersontechnology, and the quality of life. Do you think that they could do worse than... They're gonna do worse than San Francisco?

10:53Austin PetersonDo you think the people in South Korea,

10:55Austin Petersonthe corporations that build these are gonna let their private property turn into

11:00Austin Petersonwhat our our major cities are turning into here in The United States? You know, there is no utopia. Right? There's not gonna be a perfect city or or there's there's some cities that are better than others. Are some cities that are doing better than others. But the... You know, there is no such thing as a fully private city, and there's no such thing as a fully government city. Every city and every country has aspects of both, market and then government control.

11:26Austin PetersonThe only few times that there've ever been, like, real true experiments

11:30Austin Petersonto try and set up privatized communities,

11:33Austin Petersonmost of the time, it's failed miserably,

11:36Austin Petersonbut that's because they got chased out either by local tribes or governments come in and try... Prevent them from setting them up. So, you know, let people experiment a little bit. You know? Let these cities let these cities come to fruition. Let people try and live there. You know, EPCOT... Remember EPCOT? The whole experiment of Epcot was supposed to be

11:55Austin Petersonthis new city of the future.

11:58Austin PetersonIt didn't really work out. Walt Disney World is not bad, but Epcot didn't become that's... That perfect shining example of a private city that everybody wanted to live at. Turns out people don't really actually enjoy living in those types of community...

12:11Austin PetersonCommunities,

12:13Austin Petersonbut they should have the choice to do it. And a corporation certainly isn't gonna do any worse than Gavin Newsom of California and whoever the mayor of San Francisco is at this point. I mean, I I think those are good arguments. What do you gentlemen think?

12:27Jim BobI'll let either of the two on the bottom respond to that.

12:32Chad O. JacksonGo ahead, Chad.

12:33Jim BobYeah. Go ahead, Chad.

12:35Chad O. JacksonI think I've... I think I follow what's going on here,

12:38Chad O. Jacksonalthough I was a little late to the show.

12:41Chad O. JacksonWhen it comes to

12:43Chad O. Jacksonsmart cities, that... That's what we're talking about. Right? Mhmm. Smart cities.

12:47Chad O. JacksonI I do think that when you look at technological

12:51Chad O. Jacksonadvances over the course of the last fifty years, it makes me wonder

12:55Chad O. Jacksonhow will we advance quote unquote technologically

12:58Chad O. Jacksonover the next fifty years. So I think smart cities

13:02Chad O. Jacksonare to some extent inevitable.

13:06Chad O. JacksonI am totally against the federalization

13:08Chad O. Jacksonof such cities or taxpayer

13:10Chad O. Jacksondollars going to such cities

13:13Chad O. Jacksonon a state or federal level.

13:15Chad O. JacksonWhen it comes to the local level, however,

13:19Chad O. Jacksonif some random city in the middle of,

13:22Chad O. Jacksonyou know, Washington or

13:25Chad O. Jacksonwhere have you

13:26Chad O. Jacksonwish to utilize whatever local tax dollars to build this thing as a kind of experiment.

13:32Chad O. JacksonI mean, you know,

13:34Chad O. Jacksongo go go ahead. But

13:37Chad O. Jacksonthere is a lot of issues that come up as a result of these things, namely

13:44Chad O. Jacksonintrusive surveillance and and other such issues.

13:48Chad O. JacksonSo I think people should think twice. I mean, I know for me in the city that I live here in Texas,

13:54Chad O. Jacksonwe're we're pretty much like minded

13:56Chad O. Jacksonin so far that if some

13:59Chad O. Jacksonpolitician comes out of nowhere who's wet behind the ears and have these big visions and ideas about how to change the city and how to make us more tourist friendly. This person is is typically laughed at a laughed at a court because we tend to be people who want for

14:16Chad O. Jacksonour government to be small. We don't want our property taxes raised. And so we want for our

14:23Chad O. Jacksoncouncilmen to be a lot of boring old guys who don't have any ideas or any visions about anything. Just keep things the way they are because we don't want you to

14:33Chad O. Jacksonto to build the next Disneyland at the expense of our tax dollars. And so,

14:39Chad O. Jacksonunderstandably,

14:40Chad O. Jacksonin a country as

14:42Chad O. Jacksonideologically

14:43Chad O. Jacksondiverse as ours, you're gonna see more and more of these cities coming up or popping up. I mean, when you see the technological advances just in smart homes, A lot of people's homes... I mean, I... The business that I that I own happens to be in in the construction kind of

15:00Chad O. Jacksonindustry.

15:02Chad O. JacksonAnd we're seeing a lot of these smart homes popping up where you can talk to your house and you can

15:08Chad O. Jacksonset the oven, just set the

15:09Jim BobHouse house rights. I

15:11Jim Bobcall it the direction toward house rights.

15:14Jim BobNo. Yeah. I,

15:16Jim Bobyeah. I think, your your summary there is is good because I do agree with the inevitability of some of these things, but then pointing out, like, well, what are some of the what are some of the things that we might not be able to foresee or some of us might be? Jay, do you see anything that was missing in Chad or Austin's assessment of this?

15:38Jay DyerI think they brought brought a really good point.

15:41Jay DyerI I don't... I didn't hear anything I disagree with.

15:45Jay DyerThe only thing I would take issue with maybe is just...

15:49Jay DyerFor me, I mean, just from a practical perspective, it looks like

15:53Jay Dyerthe same

15:55Jay Dyerstructure that

15:56Jay Dyerthat would build the the the smart city, whether it's,

16:01Jay DyerGavin Newsom trying to do it or whether it's Google. I mean, to me, it's, the same. I don't I don't really see a huge difference between

16:08Jay Dyerthe two because

16:10Jay Dyerfor so long, we've had

16:12Jay Dyerreally controlled by

16:14Jay Dyera military industrial complex that is essentially a a

16:18Jay Dyerunit party that is a

16:20Jay Dyerpublic private partnership secret deep state that runs everything. So it... To me, it's gonna be the same thing whether it's marketed as

16:27Jay DyerMark Zuckerberg's

16:29Jay DyerFacebook city or whether it's marketed as

16:32Jay DyerVitalik's Ethereum city. Like, to me, I think it's gonna be the same. I I just see a lot of this as

16:38Jay Dyerirrelevance.

16:39Jay DyerYou could look at, for example, the structure of how

16:42Jay Dyerin the Cold War when... Well, before... Right before the Cold War set off, you could look at the way that Lenin structured cities and tried to utilize

16:53Jay Dyercorporatism.

16:54Jay DyerStalin also tried to utilize corporatism. So I don't really see a huge difference between

17:01Jay Dyerbetween corporatism

17:03Jay Dyerand,

17:04Jay Dyeryou know, private,

17:06Jay Dyerwhat's what's called free market libertarian governance. To to me, it all ends up being the same thing in practice.

17:12Jay DyerAnd what we end up debating is a lot of ideals. We end up debating.

17:15Jay DyerYeah. But in theory, you know, the city that's truly,

17:19Jay Dyervoluntaristic

17:19Jay Dyerand anarcho capitalist would be so much better. Yeah. But, like, where is that? Right? To me, it's no different than

17:26Jay DyerMarx's,

17:27Jay Dyerend goal of the withering way of the state and the the final freedom that's gonna result from Marxism. And so for me, again, I I I like a lot of libertarian ideas. I I was libertarian for a while when I was younger.

17:40Jay DyerTo me, it's just like, at the end of the day, they kinda have the same

17:44Jay Dyerpresuppositions,

17:45Jay Dyerare, materialism,

17:47Jay Dyerwhich are essentially the highest goals of man are, temporal gains,

17:52Jay Dyerpleasure,

17:53Jay Dyersecurity,

17:54Jay Dyersafety. Those end up being the highest things to attain to. And so when they measure societies in the basis of what is a good society versus a bad society,

18:03Jay Dyerit's always something like that. So it never transcends those values into valuing things that are in any way ever transcended. There's never a notion of the good. The good is always presumed. There's never a notion of what freedom actually is or freedom to be what, freedom to do what. It's always just freedom.

18:22Jay DyerAnd so because it's anti metaphysics,

18:24Jay Dyermost of the time, because it's an enlightenment philosophy,

18:27Jay Dyerit's always just kinda put out there as sort of generic ideas of freedom, liberty,

18:31Jay Dyeryou know, quality of life, something like that. So, anyway, that's my take.

18:35Jim BobYeah. Yeah. I wanted to get more into something specific,

18:38Jim Bobregarding what Jay's pointing to is, like, practical things. I saw a comment. Thanks for that.

18:43Jim BobYou know, right now, we have this this system where, you know, we're on platforms, and I I,

18:49Jim Bobused platform as a term to... That that cities will eventually be seen as platforms.

18:54Jim BobBut if that's the case and we're pissed about a company who's woke, you know, DEI woke, you know, don't say this, don't say that.

19:03Jim BobIf a company does run a a city,

19:07Jim Boband from your view, Austin, you know, it's principled

19:10Jim Bobso great, but

19:11Jim Bobit seems like the people who do pursue these company run cities, like Jay said, it's all gonna be Google,

19:18Jim Bobthese kind of things, and their philosophy

19:20Jim Bobis gonna actually dominate what the behavior of the city is. And what I mean by that is maybe Austin wakes up in the city, thinks it's awesome. You know, we're we're we're progressing here. You start your coffee machine. Right? And there's a little, I'm sorry, Austin. Your tweet last week violated blah blah blah, and you agreed to this in your, you know, crypto,

19:40Jim Bobagreement. Right? Suddenly, can't make coffee. These little things these little things add up. It's not even necessarily a big thing because guess what? If you can't make your coffee, you'll find an alternative. Great.

19:52Jim BobBut it's not like you're gonna get up and move because you didn't get your coffee because the company shut off that particular aspect of your life, but maybe they add it. Maybe they say you can't go to the gym now. Right? Maybe they say... And and so these are not fantasies. This is an extrapolation of what we see now with corporations

20:11Jim Bobowning shit, right,

20:13Jim Boband and being able to tell you the ethics that you ought follow if you're gonna be on their platform. And so you'd say, well, no. That's just an agreement. But what if they can just change the agreement once you're already in the apartment? Right? The Amazon...

20:27Jim BobWell, we call them Coompods,

20:29Jim Bobbut,

20:30Jim Bobyou're in the pod,

20:32Jim Boband it's going great. And then suddenly, you start getting these notifications. Right? Like, that's what we're pointing to, at least I'm pointing to when I go, are there any red flags with these views? Fine. Let's say, they're not utopian, like Austin says. I think they're tied a little bit to some vision, but what... Let's say they just... We try them. Right?

20:51Jim BobDoes that seem inevitable,

20:53Jim BobAustin, that the the woke corporations

20:56Jim Bobwho are actually ahead of the game in all of this, by the way,

20:59Jim Bobthey're gonna institute the same kind of bullshit TOS

21:03Jim Bobfor you to get your coffee. Sorry, buddy. Showers not today. You don't get a shower today.

21:09Jim BobSo what do you... Is that... That has to be something you admittedly

21:12Jim Bobconcede and say, well, yeah, that's con... That could be a big issue. Right?

21:16Austin PetersonNo. For sure. And, I mean, like, one thing I would say though first is that, like, you have to consider that those things are happening right now, and they're happening under the current system that we have now. But what I'm advocating for is,

21:29Austin Petersonexcuse me, something a little bit different. But, like, you know, presupposing

21:33Austin Petersonin this also too is, like, that the business owner and the person who creates...

21:38Austin PetersonWho builds the, the coffee machine doesn't have some rights as well. I mean, there is, like, such a thing as a private contract. Like, if I want to create a contract with someone and say, I wanna create a coffee machine that if one day I wanna shut it off,

21:52Austin Petersonthen I should be able to have the right to create something like that. Who are you to tell me that I shouldn't be allowed to create that kind of a private contract? Now we all live in The United States, and I agree that we should have a bill of rights and a constitution and that people should have rights and that we should elect representatives

22:08Austin Petersonto govern us to solve some of these problems. Right? So I don't... I'm not an anarcho capitalist. So I don't believe in a completely, you know, private utopia because, one, I don't think that that could exist because, two, the... Because, two, the times that it has been tried, it hasn't worked successfully just like socialist utopias

22:26Austin Petersonhave failed have failed spectacularly

22:28Austin Petersonand phenomenally. We have a lot... Though, we have a lot more

22:32Austin Petersonexamples of socialist utopias

22:35Austin Petersonthat have failed. Jamestown in New Guyana where everybody drank the Kool Aid and killed themselves.

22:40Austin PetersonPerfect example of a socialist utopia, right, that that went wrong. North Korea. We have example after example after example. But we have so few examples on the other side, and you even said that. You pointed it out and said, well, where does this exist? Where has this existed? Right? There...

22:57Austin PetersonFordlandia

22:58Austin Petersonwas an example of Henry Ford trying to create a community that was based on a utopian ideal

23:04Austin Petersonthat was mostly market based. The corporation

23:07Austin Petersonof Ford in the rubber plants

23:10Austin Petersonwhere they were, you know, harvesting rubber for the tires,

23:14Austin Petersonwhere they set up this community. And Ford was a... He was a very conservative man. He wanted to have conservative values,

23:21Austin Petersonand he tried to impose them on the community of people in Fordlandia,

23:25Austin Petersonwhich included workers were not allowed to drink alcohol. They had curfews. They had very strict rules.

23:30Austin PetersonExactly what you're talking about right here. And it failed. So the thing is is that these utopian experiments that we're discussing right now, I don't think that they exist. They can't exist in a vacuum.

23:42Austin PetersonAnd in the times... The very few times where the experiments have been tried, again, whether it's a socialist utopia of Jamestown or whether it was Fordlandia

23:51Austin Petersoncreated by Henry Ford, those utopian experiments always fall apart because

23:56Austin Petersonreality has a way of getting in the way of people's dreams to centrally plan

24:02Austin Petersonsome... A a society.

24:04Austin PetersonIt didn't work with Epcot Center. It didn't work with Jamestown.

24:08Austin PetersonIt didn't work with Fordlandia.

24:09Austin PetersonRight? What tends to work are people who are able to make individual choices on a level with a certain basis of rights, a modicum of movement of freedom that they're allowed to have to be able to make their own decisions

24:22Austin Petersonand then to go out and transact in the contract

24:25Austin Petersonto get all the goods and services that they need to accomplish, whatever their goals are in their life. So, really, what we're... At at end of the day, what you're talking about is still central planning. Right? If it's a... Whether it's a corporation or whether it's a government,

24:39Austin Petersonlike, it's still something that I oppose in principle, this concept of central planning,

24:44Austin Petersonwhich does tend to fall apart because one of us can never be as smart as all of us. And each... And it's not that there's no plan, it's that there's more planners. Right? And individuals are free to make these decisions about what coffee companies they wanna contract with. But, again,

25:00Austin Petersonthese these utopian experiments

25:02Austin Petersontend to fail

25:04Austin Petersonon their own merits because

25:06Austin Petersontheir idealism

25:08Austin Petersonusually

25:09Austin Petersonjust... It it can't work in reality

25:12Austin Petersonbecause people are people and they're individuals, and they make their own decisions. And sometimes, you know, if somebody may wanna break their contract with the coffee company that they entered into, and for that, you're gonna need a court to step in and to adjudicate a dispute. So there's always gonna be some layer

25:28Austin Petersonof a regulation

25:29Austin Petersonon a corporation

25:31Austin Petersonthat's gonna be some neutral arbiter third party. It's always gonna exist whether or not anarcho capitalists say it should. You know, it should be all private courts as well. There's gonna be some outside regulatory force. The question is what that looks like

25:45Austin Petersonand how the rest of us can manage ourselves and manage society on our own,

25:49Austin Petersonyou know, absent of some central vision and central plan handed down from us from a a a polling bureau, if you know what

25:57Jim BobI mean. You did... You you said one thing there, and I'll let Jay or Chad jump in here is that you said, well, even in the corporate city, you do have rights. Well, I'm actually saying, what if what if all the materialists and all these these coming

26:10Jim Bobup

26:11Jim Bobare gonna say, well, I actually don't care much about rights.

26:15Jim BobGive me stuff.

26:16Jim BobRight? Give me stuff.

26:18Jim BobGive me a conveyor belt subscription to my own life.

26:22Jim BobLet me sit in the city, and I'll trade off my liberties. And, I'll I'll,

26:27Jim Bobabandon that construct, and I'll trade it for another construct. Now what do you say to those people? Because regardless of whether you think it's gonna fail or succeed. Right? I agree with you that these things fail. I I think because they fundamentally don't account for other aspects of being a human being, which includes transcendental categories and things like this that we value actually more in the end.

26:48Jim BobBut regardless,

26:50Jim Bobif someone goes into the city and goes, hey. This is great. I get three years, three to five years here,

26:56Jim Boband the... They give you everything.

26:59Jim BobEverything you could imagine. Right?

27:00Austin PetersonYou can't sell yourself into slavery. Right? So the thirteenth amendment, no indentured servitude.

27:06Austin PetersonRight. No slavery. You can't

27:07Jim Bobsell yourself willfully but you can willfully forfeit your rights.

27:11Austin PetersonYeah.

27:11Jim BobThrough a contract.

27:12Austin PetersonYeah.

27:12Austin PetersonCan you? I just... I don't

27:13Austin Petersonsee something like that happening. I'm I'm... I think most people don't wanna live in the pod or eat the bugs. Are there people who absolutely...

27:20Austin PetersonListen.

27:21Austin PetersonJonestown happened. People drank the Kool Aid. They committed suicide out in the junk. There are absolutely people who do that. Like, you know, oh, oh, they... Those those peep... There are people who wanna live in a cult. How are you gonna stop people from living in cults? Okay? There are cults. There are still cults. You're you're never gonna stop people entirely from living in cults. Right? You wanna try and minimize it and encourage free thought, but you you you can't force people not to be in cults. It's impossible. There's too many cults, and we're all prone to cult thinking. Anyways, continue.

27:52Jay DyerWell, one thing that I would say, a couple

27:54Austin Petersona couple

27:54Jay Dyerthings is that it's not so much just a matter of do people join cults just because

28:01Jay Dyerpeople are cult like. You can also have an intentional

28:05Jay Dyertop down degradation of the population

28:08Jay Dyerthrough weaponized culture, and that's something that's existed for a long time. But particularly throughout the cold war,

28:15Jay Dyerpop culture was from the top down, both corporate and private

28:19Jay Dyeror... And and government in in a, like, dual operation

28:23Jay Dyertoxified

28:24Jay Dyerto degrade the population.

28:27Jay DyerAnd this is something that the libertarians typically miss or not aware of. I'm not accusing you guys of that. Just saying that in my experience of a lot of debates, libertarians,

28:35Jay Dyerthey will sort of pass over this idea of of toxic culture,

28:39Jay Dyerwhich is created by the establishment to degrade the population so that they become pliable and ready to go into these kinds of sit... Settings and and,

28:49Jay Dyerbasically,

28:49Jay Dyerrat mazes is what I would say the... These

28:52Jay Dyerthese smart cities will be. So my question to you guys would be,

28:56Jay Dyerlet's say... I mean, surely, some of us probably have worked at a a Fortune 100, Fortune 500 company at some point. Right? I've worked for a couple of them. In my in my mind, the the smart city run by one of these fortune... It's gonna be like living at work. Okay? Yeah. I remember working at a Fortune 100 company,

29:15Jay Dyerand I had a a fat bitch managers

29:17Jay Dyerscreaming in my face,

29:19Jay Dyermanaging every little thing I did, and it was a nightmare. So I can't imagine that living in... And so if I'm given that, but with also with my Coompod,

29:27Jay Dyerlike, that's gonna be somehow a better thing. So my question is just that you said something earlier, like, why not let Sony have a a hand... Have a spot at running

29:37Jay Dyera a smart city? And I'm like, I mean, dude, that's gonna be the same fat bitch manager, maybe even an AI fat bitch manager telling what you what you can eat, what you can do.

29:46Jim BobAn AI

29:47Jim Boban AI manager.

29:48Jay DyerYeah. Right? Like, she pops in on the hologram, right, while you're in the toilet, and it's like

29:53Jim BobAnd they force they force her to be overweight, sir... So their representation and and all of that.

29:58Austin PetersonAccurately

29:59Austin Petersonmanagers and corporations. Looks like

30:01Jay Dyerall fat shits, by

30:02Jim Bobthe way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They have to.

30:05Jim BobListen. We're gonna shift a tiny bit here. I think we got a a good, chunk of meat in there.

30:10Jim BobChad,

30:11Jim Bobwe were talking just before in the green room about how, you know, we pick,

30:17Jim BobI think that people pick, famous people. Right? And they approach them at this point, especially. This is... I think this has always been the case. But now I think it's even more rampant, and Jay's covered this a bunch where you seek a spokesperson who's flashy, charismatic, talks loud,

30:32Jim Bobwhatever is pretty,

30:34Jim Boband you approach them and go, hey. Hey.

30:35Austin PetersonHe's on Mono here.

30:36Jim BobYeah.

30:38Jim BobYeah. Or you wanna you wanna you wanna work for, NATO? It's it's underneath the radar, though. Like, can you push some of these narratives? Don't worry. You're doing a good thing. Don't you wanna be bigger than your... The the scripts that you read that you didn't actually create? Yeah. I know. I'm gonna be great. I'll... You know, Jesse, small it. I'm gonna put a noose around my neck. I I love it. So we've seen this. Now, Chad, you've done some decent work on,

31:00Jim BobMLK, and you get a lot of backlash. Right? I think MLK junior is one of those people where whether or not it's organic in the beginning, that's not the point. The point is

31:11Jim Bobthere are agencies that can sniff out influential people. Right? The the the the blue check marks of the fifties and sixties existed.

31:20Jim BobAnd so you you you find them. You you sort of, groom them in a way, and then you have them become a product. I think, you and I would agree, maybe Jay too. I'm not sure Austin's take on this that someone like Martin Luther King Junior was definitely utilized

31:35Jim Bobto the advantage of some other people

31:37Jim Boband, to push certain things, certain, yeah, yeah, certain out... Outcomes. Right? But now we have this. Jay, you did a little bit on on... I mentioned NATO. It was NATO, right, with,

31:48Jim BobTaylor Swift. Yep. Now we were all called, like, complete lunatics when we'd say, well, no. There are actually cult... There is culture creation. You know? A lot of work has been done, again,

31:59Jim Bobin this regard is... You know, go back to the the, the revel... You know, the sexual revolution and all of this. We can document it. We can look at it. So the question is today,

32:10Jim Bobis this running out of steam?

32:12Jim BobRight? This this... I think the the veil is dropping where you start to see... Well, there's more famous people, so there's some, saturation now. So they don't have the same influence of, like, Muhammad Ali being like, oh, no. I'm gonna do this thing. And, you know, and everyone's all like, yeah. That that guy.

32:28Jim BobWell, so many people are this now that it's almost making it sterile in a way, which I think is not a bad thing.

32:36Jim BobBut I'm wondering is is the veil dropped?

32:39Jim BobJay, you've covered this. Is it dropped? Are people already seeing... Well, famous people, they just really don't have much influence now. They they kind of,

32:47Jim Bobthey kinda blew it. I think they blew it with the the corrucum. We can't say the other word on YouTube, but I think they utilized too many talking heads, and everyone's like, wait. How is this possible that every single person with a bright,

33:01Jim Bobyou know, you know, bleach smile

33:03Jim Bobends up being on the same,

33:05Jim Bobbasically, like a board of directors side of, big big pharma? This doesn't make sense. So is it over? Is it the end of this, Jay?

33:14Chad O. JacksonI don't think it's over. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

33:16Jim BobGo... No, Chad. Go ahead. You... Why you go?

33:18Chad O. JacksonYeah. I don't I don't think it's over. I think that they've grown more sophisticated in the way that they carry out these kind of

33:26Chad O. Jacksonagendas.

33:27Chad O. JacksonAnd more often than not, you'll find that the celebrity or the individual in question

33:33Chad O. Jacksonthemselves aren't really privy to exactly what it is they're a part of. I would say that LeBron James and his dealings with China is... I mean, he's not a very smart person.

33:43Chad O. JacksonI don't think he knows what he's up to or how he's being used, but he's definitely being used in the same vein as say a

33:51Chad O. Jacksonin the same vein as say a Paul Robeson circa

33:54Chad O. Jacksonnineteen o eight who was being used by

33:59Chad O. Jacksonthe... Well, nineteen o eight. Nineteen eighteen

34:01Chad O. Jacksonnineteen nineteen nineteen twenty

34:04Chad O. Jacksonarea.

34:06Chad O. JacksonHe was a full blown communist

34:09Chad O. Jacksonand I think he was more aware of how it was being used and all too willing to be used in the same way that MLK was,

34:16Chad O. Jacksonbut I don't think LeBron James is fully aware of what's going on. But again, they've grown more sophisticated because over the course of the twentieth century, what we've seen is the so called expert class

34:28Chad O. Jacksoninfluencing the trajectory of our country. These were the ones who were acting as the kind of brain trust, if you will, of the FDR administration,

34:36Chad O. Jacksonboth Republican and Democrat administration throughout the the course of the twentieth century.

34:41Chad O. JacksonI mean, the whole political theatrics of it all where you think that you're pulling the lever for

34:47Chad O. Jacksonone

34:48Chad O. Jacksonparty's agenda over the others when in reality, it's just one unit party. This isn't anything new. This has been the case for a very long time.

34:55Chad O. JacksonThe veil is

34:57Chad O. Jacksonbreaking,

34:58Chad O. Jacksonso to speak, insofar

35:00Chad O. Jacksonthat

35:01Chad O. Jacksonfolks like myself

35:03Chad O. Jacksonand you Jim Bob and Jay and others

35:07Chad O. Jacksonare

35:08Chad O. Jacksongrowing more aware of how ideological

35:11Chad O. Jacksonsubversion works. But I think part of the reason of that is because we... Like, we know what the word ideological subversion is.

35:18Chad O. JacksonWe know about Yuri Bezmenov sitting down with G. Edgar Griffin in 1984

35:22Chad O. Jacksontalking to us about the way in which k g... The KGB and the Soviet Union influenced

35:27Chad O. Jacksonideological subversion, cultural demoralization

35:29Chad O. Jacksonhere in The United States. And so we're aware of how this thing works.

35:34Chad O. JacksonAnd even though someone like

35:36Chad O. JacksonYuri Bezmenov was able to put into a nicely packed four point process

35:42Chad O. Jacksonof how ideological subversion works,

35:45Chad O. Jacksonthat's more for our understanding. The reality is it doesn't actually quite work out in exactly those four stages. It's kind of zigzag

35:53Chad O. Jacksonin a way that it truly works. We learn...

35:56Chad O. JacksonBecause we are all educated by the same mass compulsory

36:01Chad O. Jacksonpublic school education system,

36:03Chad O. Jacksonwe understand everything in phases and bullet points and this is the way that we understand things.

36:10Chad O. JacksonAnd so part of Yuri's genius is that he understands the way that we were educated in the West and so he gave us a framework to understand how ideological subversion works. But the reality is when the rubber hits the road, it's more zigzag and more kind of fluid

36:26Chad O. Jacksonin reality. So we don't know at a given time whether we're in a stage of normalization

36:32Chad O. Jacksonor crisis or

36:34Chad O. Jacksondestabilization

36:35Chad O. Jacksonor demoralization.

36:36Chad O. JacksonSometimes all these things are happening simultaneously

36:39Chad O. Jacksonbut they're happening nonetheless.

36:40Chad O. JacksonThe point being to

36:42Chad O. Jacksonmake the public think that everything is happening in a vacuum or everything's organic. There's no hidden hand behind whatever is going on at a given time. And then along comes some, you know,

36:54Chad O. Jacksonbright smiling politician saying that he has the answers if you would only vote for him or support his policy.

37:00Chad O. JacksonAnd for the sake of safety and security, we end up pulling the lever for that politician

37:04Chad O. Jacksonnot realizing that the whole time, the whole point was to empower the federal government all the more at the expense of the rights and the freedoms of the American people. So this thing continues to happen over and over again and I think politicians in the expert class today are working simultaneously

37:19Chad O. Jacksonto that end.

37:20Chad O. JacksonAnd so that's the sophistication of it all.

37:23Jim BobAnd entertainment. You... And you add the element of entertainment as well, which has never been as accessible.

37:29Jim BobLike, technology allowed entertainment and high production value to be ubiquitous

37:34Jim Bobsuch that we can have a show like this. I mean, imagine this panel right now, this this show, this quality,

37:40Jim Bobyou know, forty years ago, it'd be like, what the hell do you... Who do you know?

37:44Jim BobBut now everybody has that. And so I would... Yeah. Everything you said, Chad, but add in the technological

37:50Jim Bobaspect that,

37:51Jim Bobyou know, actually kind of adds to the the confusion in a sense, but it also allows us to seek out alternative

37:59Jim Bobviews and information

38:01Jim Bobso that we can... It's like a it's like a double edged sword. Like, you know, you open it up to everybody so you get more garbage like YouTube. There's gonna be 85%

38:10Jim Bobgarbage. What's the Pareto principle? Eighty twenty?

38:12Jim BobAnd then and then what? You know, you have to find out the truth of the matter, but we're... You know, some people say we're even in post truth. So, like, people don't even care that it's fake. You see this with AI stuff? You go, that's an AI influencer.

38:26Jim BobThe person goes, I don't care. They're filling this thing this thing that I need, and that's that's the that's the value. The value isn't that it's real or breathing or authentic or has a soul or... You know? It's this other thing. And I think that's true for politics at some level where if the if the character fits and they say all the right lines, I think there's enough metadata they have access that you say x, you could probably predict a movement to the right or to the left to some extent. I'm I'm not saying there's, like,

38:55Jim Bobthere's an effective,

38:57Jim Bobwizard of Oz who really can do it all. Think it up being quite a mess. Right? So I'm not that big of a of a conspiratard,

39:05Jim Bobbut I'm a little bit... I... Like, I earned a helmet, but I'm not that bad.

39:10Jim BobRight.

39:10Austin PetersonI I agree. Listen, though, I think Chad is definitely right on the money, and I liked your point

39:16Austin Petersonmade by Jim Bob where you talked about control over the culture.

39:20Austin PetersonAnd, like, I... You know, I'll be first to admit, like, I'm very white pills. Right? Like, I very much, like, am an optimist

39:27Austin Petersonand and see a lot of good things in our future, maybe short term pessimistic,

39:32Austin Petersonlong term

39:33Austin PetersonMhmm. Optimistic.

39:34Austin PetersonBecause I'll say this, like, when you think about the Hollywood system and how it used to be so much easier to control the media and the message,

39:44Austin PetersonRight? There have been sort of, you know, information revolutions

39:48Austin Petersonthat have been occurring.

39:49Austin PetersonYou know, in our lifetime, there have been several information revolutions,

39:54Austin Petersonnot just because of the medium with which how we're we're able to spread information,

40:00Austin Petersonbut what we can all... How we can also broadcast

40:02Austin Petersoninformation

40:04Austin Petersonand who is considered to be credible in terms of public information.

40:08Austin PetersonRight? When I was a child, there were, you know, what, five, six networks.

40:12Austin PetersonHow many... You know, five or six news net... You know, shows

40:16Austin Petersonand only one... Walter Cronkite was, like, the most credible person reporting.

40:21Austin PetersonAnd even with the Pareto principle, if, like, there's 20% good information, 80% bad. Right? That's still... That's a low, you know, noise... Signal to noise ratio there.

40:32Austin PetersonBut the... At least the tools are available for people like us to get the information.

40:38Austin PetersonI mean, we are, in some sense, the elites because

40:42Austin Petersonwe are seeking out that information, and you are con... You know, you able

40:47Austin Petersonto control 320

40:48Austin Petersonpeople who are gonna listen to this show live as they... What I think of the numbers are. Right? It used to be that when we had four or five channels, a million people

40:56Austin Petersonwere... Watch a show, and that was... That could barely ever exist anywhere except

41:02Austin Petersononline. And then if you get a million people on live, like, you're talking about breaking, like, a stream or something like that. It does happen. Like, you get close.

41:11Austin PetersonBut mostly, what we see with, like, the biggest information streamers now, like Dan Bongino,

41:16Austin PetersonI think he got, like, eight or 900,000

41:18Austin Petersonpeople watching live at some point, and it was, like, the biggest stream in all of history ever, and that was just recently.

41:25Austin PetersonSo there has been a power change. Can corporations

41:28Austin Petersonand and, you know, ne'er do wells come in and control their voice? And, you know, yes.

41:34Austin PetersonSure. But,

41:36Austin PetersonI mean, the mob is even more powerful now than it used to be. The mob has more tools

41:42Austin Petersonto uncover corruption.

41:43Austin PetersonI mean, how many times are we say... I mean, f... Sam Bankman freed an FTX and a fraud that was uncovered at FTX was uncovered pretty damn fast.

41:53Austin PetersonBernie Madoff, I think it took them, like, over a decade to reveal his fraud.

41:57Austin PetersonEnron,

41:58Austin Petersonfor for example, like, everything is speeding up now. I mean, including the speed of the scams,

42:04Austin Petersonbut also the the the the justice that's occurred. Because let's be honest. We all... We frequently do not get justice from our justice system, which is why you see, you know, sometimes, unfortunately, cancel culture mobs

42:16Austin Petersonthat will destroy a person unjustly.

42:19Austin PetersonBut because there's such a desire for people to know the truth about the people who are spreading information,

42:26Austin Petersonfind out who they're connected to,

42:28Austin Petersonyou do get justice. You do find out, you know, people who are public figures that are pedophiles a lot faster than you would have found out years ago. People might have gone their whole lives and you didn't know that they had these associations

42:41Austin Petersoneither to Jeffrey Epstein or... God. You could probably find a dozen people in the media that, you know, you don't know their names, but they had a small following and they got busted talking to a 12 year old girl at a park because some, you know, some kid with a cell phone was able to go out and record them and capture them and play the role of what used to be the... What was the... To catch a predator? Now everybody's to catch a predator. Right?

43:04Jim BobSo Well, that...

43:04Austin PetersonThat's what

43:05Jim Bobthe that's what the policing would be in the smart cities. It would just be like a a

43:09Jim Bobmob of bees ready to sting someone. Right? Maybe unjustly.

43:14Austin PetersonBut... The

43:15Jay Dyerwill well, smart smart city will mandate that you meet your pedo quota

43:18Jay Dyerevery time. Yeah. Yeah. Right?... Crazier than that. But

43:22Jay DyerI saw there's a positive side to this, which is true, which is that we're we're at this inflection point where there's a massive war going on with

43:30Jay Dyercontrolling,

43:31Jay Dyerthe the voices, controlling the reach of stuff.

43:35Jay DyerI've dealt with this for... Since 2016,

43:37Jay Dyergotten the whole website deleted.

43:40Jay DyerYou know, it's it's a nightmare to to fight, but also at the same time, we're at a point where we're starting to have some victories.

43:47Jay DyerAnd it's not just in, like, alternative media and speaking about these kinds of issues. I mean, it's other areas as well, like, cat Williams talking about comedy being a gay.

43:57Jim BobYou know?

43:57Jay DyerThere's a bunch of comedians out there that ain't never been funny, by the way.

44:02Jay DyerPut

44:03Jay Dyerinto your face every day like they funny.

44:06Jay DyerRight. No. Right? And they're not. And the establishment has been doing that. There's even,

44:11Jay Dyerlike, non establishment people still trying to gatekeep.

44:15Jay DyerAnd I don't know if you guys have seen this, but, you know, one of the biggest things on YouTube is comedy.

44:20Jay DyerAnd there's this whole fracas in the last year

44:24Jay Dyeron YouTube of people pointing out... It actually started with Amy Schumer and people pointing out that she was voicing on everyone and she's not funny.

44:31Jay DyerThen it became then it became Brennan Shaub and everybody being forced to... Supposedly, you're supposed to like Brennan Shaub, and he threatened people that were making fun of his his stand up. And so it's like people are not understanding the way the Internet works. You can't threaten your audience to not...

44:46Austin PetersonLike, you

44:47Jay Dyerbetter laugh, but where I'm on... Alright. It's just crazy.

44:50Jay DyerSo there's this revolution that's happening.

44:54Jay DyerElon with x... I mean, whatever you think of Elon.

44:57Jay DyerI mean, certainly, there's there's areas to be critical. But

45:00Jay Dyerjust on the in the issue of being able to have a little bit more free speech and make Twitter like the Internet was in 2014

45:07Jay Dyerhas been very good for for me. My my Twitter's grown well in the last year. So there are positives or pluses. But I think if we zoom out the meta level and we think about this,

45:18Jay DyerI still just like...

45:20Jay DyerI'm worried that the Internet itself

45:23Jay Dyerwas given to us by

45:25Jay Dyerthe public private

45:28Jay Dyercorporate partnership of the deep state and the Pentagon. I don't think it was given to us for freedom and liberty and libertarian libertarian values.

45:36Jay DyerI think that it's there ultimately.

45:38Jay DyerI mean, I I wish... I I want it to not be... I hope it's not gonna be bad. There's a lot of positives. I'm pro Bitcoin. I'm pro, you know, all of these things, but I'm also worried that it will have the effect of degrading society to the point where

45:52Jay Dyerthe future generations, gen z, and younger are going to actually be that blob of people who don't have any critical dinging skills and will be raised in a smart city and will be depopulated.

46:01Jay DyerI think that's the danger. And I I don't know what the answers are. I mean, I think there are some things that we can do. I don't have any big scale solution to everything. But but, I mean, I'm just worried that the Internet itself is all... Also contributing to the the decline.

46:15Jay DyerI don't know. And also in regard to your investment off, I mean, he's a great example of of why I don't think

46:22Jay Dyerthe libertarian ethos

46:24Jay Dyeritself

46:25Jay Dyeris the answer. I think it has a lot of good points and a good good critiques of the state.

46:30Jay DyerBut if you look at Yuri Bezmenov,

46:32Jay DyerI mean, for one, everything that he says when he defected is what the CIA wanted him to say. So that's why you find if you watch the full lectures, he goes on to talk about how we have to we have to liberate the Eastern Europeans who are being oppressed because they can't have the butt sex, and

46:49Austin Petersonwe must give them the freedom of all

46:51Jay Dyerthe liberties of the gay.

46:53Jay DyerAnd it's like, wait a minute. So he's just another kind of tool,

46:56Jay Dyeryou know, voicing

46:58Jay Dyerwhat the CIA wanted in the Cold War. And we're actually doing the very things right now that Yuri said. So I don't know why people... If people have a problem with what's happening in Ukraine... I mean, Yuri said we need to liberate these people so that they can have, you know, skittles,

47:12Jay Dyerweddings, and whatnot. So,

47:14Jay Dyeragain, it's just liberate... I mean, yeah, he says some good things, but it wasn't the KGB that was running these operations

47:20Jay Dyerin the Cold War. It was the fortune one hundred, fortune five hundred running those operations,

47:25Jay Dyerdemoralized America,

47:27Jay Dyernot

47:28Chad O. JacksonYeah.

47:28Jay DyerThe KGB. And the and the CEOs of fortune five hundred were not KGB agent.

47:32Austin PetersonOkay. Well, just,

47:33Chad O. Jacksonyou know I was

47:33Austin PetersonMaybe maybe Yeria Bezmenov was a liar. Right? So it's possible

47:39Austin Petersonthat he was also full of shit, right, because he was a Soviet.

47:43Austin PetersonSo just remember that it's possible

47:46Austin Petersonthat Yuri Bezmenov was telling us what we, you know, we, the anti establishment,

47:51Austin Petersonwhy... We, the revolutionaries,

47:53Austin Petersonright, we who are the anti Hillary Clinton's,

47:56Austin Petersonthe anti Mitt Romney's of the world, you know, whatever you consider yourself to be if you're not a libertarian. Right? We're on this side and, right, and Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton and everybody else is on the others. But just because Yuri Bezmenov told us a few things that we wanted to hear, it doesn't mean that we ought to take Yuri Bezmenov

48:14Austin Petersonas the gospel truth. Like, it's possible to think that Hillary Clinton is a fraud

48:20Austin Petersonand

48:21Austin PetersonVladimir Putin is a murderous killer. Right? Like, I... You don't have to buy into either narratives. And my favorite... Actually, my favorite,

48:29Austin Petersonformer Soviet

48:31Austin Petersonwho I don't trust completely

48:33Austin Petersonis a guy by the name of Mitrochian,

48:35Austin Petersonwho was a former KGB general who defected to The United States.

48:40Austin PetersonAnd he had a whole treasure trove

48:43Austin Petersonof not just conspiracy

48:45Austin Petersontheories that he brought with him, but actual conspiracies

48:48Austin Petersonthat former... That, intelligence

48:50Austin Petersonagencies overseas

48:52Austin Petersonhad perpetrated upon the American public.

48:56Austin PetersonAmericans love conspiracy

48:58Austin Petersontheories,

48:59Austin Petersonand the Soviets knew this. And they know that if you wanted to have power over the American people,

49:06Austin Petersonthe best way is to spread conspiracy theories because we love it. Mostly because we're so prosperous

49:12Austin Petersonand wealthy compared to the rest of the world that our wives

49:15Austin Petersonwho are bored at home or at least were in the nineteen fifties in the Cold War until the eighties,

49:20Austin Petersonthey love conspiracy theories. The board housewives,

49:23Austin Petersonman, you see them on Twitter now because now they have social media, and they're out there spreading the nine eleven inside job.

49:30Austin PetersonOswald didn't shoot alone from the... They've got nothing better to do with their lives than spread Soviet horseshit on

49:37Jay Dyerthe So do you believe

49:38Austin Petersonthe official story of Oswald?

49:40Austin PetersonAnd the deep state loves it because it keeps us retarded and arguing over things like an assassination from the nineteen sixties

49:47Austin Petersonand whether it's important that there was somebody on a grassy knoll or not instead of fighting about the fight that's happening right now. So, like, foreign intelligence agencies

49:57Austin Petersonare just as as guilty as spreading horseshit conspiracy theories that Americans love and believe because we are believers, man. We love to believe in conspiracy theories.

50:06Jay DyerYou think that when somebody defects, they're going to Mhmm. No. They're gonna put out what well, you didn't let me... Haven't... You don't let me finish yet. You don't know what

50:13Chad O. JacksonI'm gonna say.

50:14Jay DyerYeah. You don't think that they're gonna say what their new masters want?

50:18Austin PetersonIt they're... No. I think they're gonna say whatever's gonna make sure that they get the champagne and the Coca Cola flowing, and that's gonna get them the benefit

50:26Jay Dyerwould be what the CIA wants. Right?

50:29Austin PetersonPerhaps.

50:29Austin PetersonMaybe. Maybe. But just

50:31Chad O. JacksonWell, Jay

50:32Austin PetersonYou know, just because the CIA says something doesn't mean it's wrong. You know? Anath Hitler drank water. Right? So the truth can

50:38Austin Petersonbe the truth.

50:39Austin PetersonIf just

50:40Austin PetersonCIA is argue

50:41Jay Dyerit. Accusing me of a fallacy, which I didn't argue. I didn't argue that it

50:44Austin Petersonwas My point is is that you're at Bezmenov. Some of what he said was ostensibly true, and some of what he said, I think, was ostensibly false.

50:52Austin PetersonRight? So you gotta be careful, especially when you talk about Soviet defectors

50:56Austin Petersonbecause a lot of those people,

50:58Austin Petersonthey weren't necessarily defectors. They were still working on the sides of the Soviets. Some of them were double linked.

51:03Jay DyerI I understand people have that theory, but let me give you an example. So, again, he says

51:08Jay Dyerthat

51:09Jay Dyerone of the things that has to happen is that we have to support

51:12Jay Dyerthe efforts of the West and the CIA in the Cold War

51:15Jay Dyerbecause of the fact that there's a lot of oppressed people on the other side of the iron curtain in the Eastern Block countries who don't have access

51:23Jay Dyerto Coke, Pepsi, and gay marriage.

51:25Jay DyerSo what I'm saying is that that is the CIA's line during the cold war. They adopted through the congress for cult... Cultural freedom,

51:32Jay Dyerthe liberal policy of social

51:35Jay Dyerethics and

51:37Jay Dyerliberal

51:38Jay Dyerart ideas. That's why they funded modern art, abstract art, all of that. So if you understand the dominance of the CIA in American pop culture

51:46Jay Dyerfrom the nineteen sixties all the way up into the nineteen eighties

51:49Austin PetersonThat that was smart, Jay. That that worked. Right? That was effective. I mean, you're you're making the CIA's point for them. I mean, they funded jazz

51:57Austin Petersonartists. They funded American

51:59Austin Petersonartists.

51:59Chad O. JacksonPimminism. Yeah.

52:00Austin PetersonIt worked. It it worked. I mean, they're they're......

52:03Jay DyerIn the situation of degenerative

52:05Jay Dyerwar.

52:05Austin PetersonThe c d... The CIA aren't necessarily ideologues.

52:08Austin PetersonRight? They don't necessarily operate on an ideological fashion like we do. Right? The the... Their their mission changes based on the administration that controls them. The mission is... The mission of the CIA That's a totally

52:20Austin Petersonnormie

52:21Austin Petersonnarrative about

52:22Austin Petersonwhat the CIA from nineteen fifties.

52:24Austin PetersonIt killed Castro and killed Che Guevara.

52:26Austin PetersonIt's not the same mission as the CIA.

52:28Jay DyerNormie narrative of what the CIA is and what they

52:30Austin Petersondo. Jay. No, Jay. You've been drinking you've been drinking a lot of Kool Aid yourself, it sounds like. You wanna believe you wanna believe the alternative mainstream narratives that agree with you completely entirely,

52:41Austin Petersonand it's possible that maybe the mainstream narrative is horseshit.

52:44Austin PetersonDrinking Coolidge, though. Let's specifically have to drink bullshit

52:47Austin Petersonthat comes out of InfoWars on a daily basis because you wanna sell us dick pills,

52:52Austin Petersonand the establishment wants to sell us dick pills.

52:54Jay DyerArguments that

52:55Austin Petersonyou're going to Whether I buy my shit. You're going to low tier stuff from dick pill. Whether I buy my dick pills from Pfizer or

53:01Jay Dyerwhether I an actual argument. So... Right.

53:03Austin PetersonYou're both selling Let's have a...

53:04Jay DyerDo have a actual debate or you wanna go into dick pill shit?

53:07Austin PetersonNo. I'm telling you that that you are just... You are not immune to the same corruption that the establishment

53:13Austin Petersonis engaged in. Just because you say you're against the establishment, you can still spread the same horseshit.

53:19Austin PetersonYuri Bezmenov

53:20Jay DyerThat doesn't prove that I've actually done that.

53:22Austin PetersonSo these are these are all non Hillary Clinton can.

53:26Jim BobWait. So How does that prove

53:28Jay DyerI've actually done that by saying that it's possible for someone to spread misinformation? You... That's not an argument.

53:35Austin PetersonI'm sorry.

53:35Jim BobDo you Do

53:36Austin Petersonyou have

53:36Jim Boba feeling

53:38Jim Bobdo

53:38Jay Dyeryou think misinformation?

53:40Jim BobYeah. Do you think,

53:41Jim BobJay, through, I guess, through Infowars, are you saying that he's he's part of a disinfo

53:47Jim Bobthing or that it's just possible?

53:49Austin PetersonI'm... No. I'm saying that, you know, building on my point from people who are bored tend to believe in conspiracy theories

53:56Austin Petersonthat what Yuri Bezmenov spread here in The United States may

53:59Austin Petersonnot have been the entire truth and that things like the... Just because the CIA says something doesn't mean that it's wrong. They may say something that's true on one day, and they may say something that... They say something that's a lie. But their job is to an argument.

54:12Jay DyerYeah. It's all straw men.

54:14Jay DyerNone of those I'm not

54:15Austin Petersontalking about your argument. How can

54:16Austin PetersonI straw man my own argument? I'm only saying

54:19Jay DyerYou're not you're not addressing my argument then.

54:21Austin PetersonOkay. Well, I didn't hear a question. They may have cut out. So did you ask a question?

54:25Jay DyerNo.

54:26Jay DyerA question is not an argument.

54:27Austin PetersonSo What is your argument?

54:29Jay DyerAddressing the arguments I made, then there was no reason to go to dick pills and

54:33Austin Petersonme to... What would you like me to address, Jay?

54:36Jay DyerWell, let's go back to the CIA and the Cold War. You said it was effective,

54:40Jay Dyerand I didn't I didn't question whether it was effective or not. My my point was that they adopted and utilized the arts and the principles of degeneracy

54:49Jay Dyeras a form of cultural warfare.

54:52Austin PetersonI don't give a shit. I don't give a shit about your degeneracy. Like, I don't sit around

54:55Austin PetersonWell, that's that's

54:57Austin Petersonthat's why

54:57Austin PetersonI don't care. Like, I'm I'm You not don't care that society No. I'm not... I don't And this

55:02Austin Petersonis why this is why I don't like you, dude.

55:03Austin PetersonI don't sit around thinking about butt sex all the time, bro. I'm not upset. Are useless. I'm not obsessed with butt sex. People. Right?

55:09Jay DyerYou don't care

55:10Austin Petersonabout You are obsessed with butt sex. My point. You you can't stop thinking about it, and and it's your it's your primary goal in life is to stop people

55:18Austin Petersonfrom having butt sex. I don't identify with that. That's too bad, dude.

55:21Austin PetersonHold on. Hold on. Hold Hold on. Humor.

55:24Austin PetersonLook at

55:25Austin Petersonon. Hold on a

55:27Jim Bobsecond, Jay. Hold on. Austin,

55:28Jim Bobif what we're talking about is

55:31Jim Bobcultural and ideological subversion. Right?

55:34Austin PetersonYes.

55:34Jim BobWould would you say

55:35Jay DyerHe just said he doesn't care.

55:37Jim BobRight. Well, do you... What about

55:39Austin Petersonwhat about I'm in favor of cult... Cultural and ideological subversion. Well, I'm... We're engaging in it right now. We want to subvert the culture. Who wants to... We don't wanna keep the culture the same. I'm not a conservative. Talking about. I'm not a conservative. I'm a revolutionary.

55:52Austin PetersonYou're literally about I want revolution.

55:53Jay DyerI am a

55:54Jim BobSo what... Wait. Hold on.

55:55Austin PetersonHold on. Hold on. Hold on a second.

55:56Austin PetersonI'm almost done. Don't get it don't get it twisted here. I don't want an old world order. I want a new world order. I want things to be changed. I don't want things to be how they were. I want Bitcoin. I want monetary reform. I wanna end the Federal Reserve. I wanna see Hillary Clinton in jail. I wanna see Donald Trump be president. I wanna see I wanna see a revolution. I wanna see things get shaken up because I don't want things to be the same. I don't have...

56:23Austin PetersonYou have no ethics.

56:24Austin PetersonYou said I don't want to presuppositional.

56:26Jay DyerAll you have is subjective libertarian

56:29Jay Dyerpleasure principle.

56:31Austin PetersonOkay. Well, you know, the things you made up Well,

56:33Austin Petersonthey were going in your

56:34Austin Petersonhead is your

56:36Austin Petersonmoral principle, but mine is completely subjective.

56:39Austin PetersonBut yours is completely objective.

56:41Austin PetersonLiterally just totally

56:42Austin Petersondo what. On something and and based in in facts and reality.

56:45Jay DyerRight. That's why you don't even know what a fallacy is. You've made multiple fallacies already in this discussion.

56:50Jay DyerOkay. Because you can't separate subjective argumentation

56:54Jay Dyerfrom objective.

56:55Jim BobSo, Austin, I wanna ask you. If if, cultural subversion, if you're for it, you're not for every version of it. Right?

57:02Austin PetersonNo. I'm for my own. That's... Okay. Okay. Great. So I'm on the right cultural subversion.

57:07Jay DyerSo what's the basis for ethics here?

57:10Austin PetersonOh god. Please. Nicaea

57:12Austin Petersonethics. I'm not gonna get into, like, ancient Greece and and

57:16Austin PetersonMarcus Aurelius. Greek. Right? I'm not gonna sit down I'm not gonna sit down talking Marcus Aurelius or stoicism

57:22Austin Petersonand and

57:23Jim BobHere here, Jay.

57:23Austin PetersonJJ, hold on.

57:25Jay DyerYou're making arguments that we need to adopt this... Dude,

57:29Jay Dyercan you answer this or not? Right? And then you're saying, I want Nicomachean ethics, but I don't wanna answer for what it means to go to ancient Greek ethics. That is

57:35Austin Petersona No.

57:36Austin PetersonI don't. Because I think that shit's boring, bro.

57:38Jay DyerAnd I I don't care

57:39Austin Petersonthat you think it's boring.

57:39Austin PetersonWhat if you need a basis for

57:41Austin Petersonyour method?

57:42Austin PetersonListen. If you don't think that I have a fixed moral principle and a standard, that's fine.

57:45Austin PetersonWhat is it?

57:46Austin PetersonWe can't agree... We won't agree on that. I wanna know the argument for it. Let's talk about what people give a shit about. Nobody cares about ancient Here.

57:52Austin PetersonHere. Yeah. I get audience cares about it

57:55Jay Dyerbecause you came with a moral claim. You can't justify. Yes. They do.

57:59Austin PetersonThe object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane, Marcus Aurelius

58:07Jay Dyerarguments are

58:07Austin Petersonremain... They're they're

58:09Austin Petersonthe basis of my ethics. Are you

58:10Jim Bobreading memes?

58:11Austin PetersonMarcus... I'm reading Marcus Aurelius.

58:13Austin PetersonHold on. Hold on.

58:14Jim BobLet me ask.

58:14Austin PetersonLet me stoic ethics.

58:19Jay DyerExactly. Silence.

58:20Austin PetersonDid somebody did somebody... I didn't hear you say Why should we accept stoic ethics?

58:25Austin PetersonOh my god. Alright. Listen. You don't

58:26Jay Dyerwanna answer it. Right.

58:27Austin PetersonNo. I don't because I think it's a pointless discussion. Yeah. But because you don't have an answer.

58:31Jim BobThat's Jay. Jay. Jay. Jay.

58:32Austin PetersonHold on. Let me

58:33Jim Bobask a different let me ask a let me ask a different way. Is there any is there any degeneracy

58:38Jim Bobthat you point to that you... We ought not,

58:41Jim Bobpursue

58:42Jim Bobin society?

58:44Austin PetersonAre you asking me?

58:44Jim BobYeah.

58:45Jim BobDoes the term degeneracy mean anything to you at all?

58:50Austin PetersonYeah. To to some extent, we probably wouldn't share the same definition of what degeneracy

58:55Austin Petersondefines that?

58:56Jay DyerWhat makes it... What makes

58:57Austin PetersonTo degenerate.

58:58Austin PetersonRight? So to to so to the actual literal definition of degenerate

59:03Jay Dyerevidence of the word

59:03Austin PetersonTo have a to have a positive What is

59:05Austin Petersonthe standard in your role,

59:07Austin Petersondude, which you judge degenerate.

59:09Austin PetersonDegenerate. But I'm not like Jay Donald sitting around worrying about the butt sex. Right? It's not it's not the top of my concerns

59:15Austin Petersonfor society. Don't matter. You don't get mad at the butt sex. Oh my god. They're being indoctrinated.

59:20Austin PetersonStop them from having sex. This is lowest

59:24Austin Petersonlowest IQ.

59:25Jim BobCheck. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Let me... JJ, let me take it one step at a time here. Are... Is the current culture that I call degeneracy and Jay does as well, are they pushing that on children?

59:37Austin PetersonYes. And as Does that matter?

59:38Jay DyerDoes that matter at Yes. Is it

59:40Austin Petersonwrong? And as... Listen. And as a man who got booed when I ran for president for saying you should not be allowed to sell drugs to children,

59:48Austin PetersonI can tell you that there are moral standards and principles that you do not cross.

59:53Austin PetersonAnd what are they?

59:55Austin PetersonSo so so there are there are absolutely

59:58Austin Petersonsome moral standards in presuppos. Are they? What's the basis? But but I draw the line at children.

1:00:03Jay DyerHe won't answer. Because just answered.

1:00:05Austin PetersonI just answered. I draw the line at children. What are they? What are the standards? I just said. I draw the line at children.

1:00:11Jay DyerStated your personal opinion.

1:00:13Jim BobI wanna

1:00:13Austin Petersonknow what the

1:00:14Jay Dyereffect the standard is.

1:00:15Austin PetersonBut consenting adults are a different matter.

1:00:18Austin PetersonSo What is the base of

1:00:19Jay Dyernot being of the standard apart from... Listen. You're being arbitrary. You understand? In philosophy, you can't be arbitrary.

1:00:25Austin PetersonYes. I I can't all... I can do whatever the fuck I want. It's a free country.

1:00:28Austin PetersonI can't arbitrary when I wanna be arbitrary. I can't whatever

1:00:33Austin Petersonthe fuck.

1:00:33Jay DyerYou just lost the debate by saying I could do whatever I want in the debate. I could do...

1:00:37Austin PetersonYes. I... Of course, I can. Of course, I could do it. This isn't a

1:00:40Austin Petersona debate format.

1:00:41Austin PetersonYou don't know. Jim Bob even said

1:00:43Austin Petersonbelong. Could do

1:00:44Austin Petersonwhatever we want. It's not a it's not a hard debate format, so I can do whatever I want. I can say whatever I like. You don't even understand that

1:00:51Jay Dyerdoing it doesn't mean that you're... I'm talking about following the laws of debate, the laws of logic. Do you think you can commit fallacies and the arguments are still good?

1:00:59Austin PetersonOkay, mister Yuri Bezmenov.

1:01:01Austin PetersonIs every Oh, you're you're you're

1:01:03Austin Petersongoing back to has the same mission mission from the nineteen fifties until today. Right?

1:01:07Jim BobSo Austin Austin, let me

1:01:09Austin Petersontest it.

1:01:09Austin PetersonHold on. Hold on. Jay.

1:01:10Austin PetersonJay. Up. Jay can make shit up on the spot, but

1:01:12Austin PetersonI have to go all the way

1:01:14Jay Dyerand make a

1:01:14Austin Petersonbrace. And Hold on.

1:01:15Jim BobI'm gonna mute. I'm gonna mute.

1:01:17Jim BobI'm gonna mute both of you. Hold on a second. I have a question. I'm gonna bring it back on the... On tracks in a way that still follows the... Where this is going.

1:01:26Jim BobYou...

1:01:27Jim BobAustin, you do

1:01:28Jim Bobappeal. Your foundation, would you say, is based on rights.

1:01:34Austin PetersonAm I unmuted? Okay. Yes.

1:01:36Jim BobYeah. Rights? Yeah. Okay.

1:01:38Jim BobAnd so from your view,

1:01:40Jim Bobis it fair to ask

1:01:42Jim Bobwhat what these rights are?

1:01:45Austin PetersonOf course, it is.

1:01:47Jim BobK. So what are what are rights

1:01:49Jim Bobfrom from your view here? Alright. Would you agree that a right...

1:01:53Jim BobWould you agree with the definition that a right is

1:01:56Jim Boban entitlement absent a duty?

1:02:01Austin PetersonYes. That's that's a pretty close to the technical definition of what a right is. A right... Like, the the simplest way to explain it is that that is a right is a guarantee.

1:02:11Jim BobOkay. So if a right is an entitlement absent a duty, from your view, when you say, well, I I have a concept of degenerate. Right? There's some degeneration

1:02:20Jim Bobof something. So there's a positive thing that's

1:02:23Jim Bobunraveling. Let's call it a fabric. Right? So let's say from all of our views, there's a fabric. And when we see that fabric unraveling,

1:02:31Jim Bobwe call it degenerate.

1:02:32Jim BobWe call it degeneration. Right?

1:02:34Jim BobThat's a a clearer visual way to say it. So my question is,

1:02:38Jim Bobif a right is the... Is an entitlement absent duty,

1:02:42Jim Bobwhere do you get the duty

1:02:44Jim Bobto

1:02:45Jim Bobdefend rights from?

1:02:50Austin PetersonWhere do you get the duty to defend

1:02:53Austin Petersonthese rights from?

1:02:55Austin PetersonYeah. So

1:02:56Austin PetersonI... Could you rephrase your question in a different way?

1:02:59Jim BobWhy Make it more low IQ. To me. Okay. What low IQ.

1:03:02Austin PetersonHold on, Jay. Hold on, Jay.

1:03:04Austin PetersonYes. Because it's it's low IQ to want to understand and make sure you understand, though.

1:03:08Jim BobIt's okay. Hold on. Wait. Why... Basically, if a right... If the thing you're defending is the rights, which is an entitlement absent a duty, I wanna... It it entails that a duty's somewhere

1:03:19Jim Bobin there, right, entangled. And I'm asking, like, what is the... What's from your view, from a libertarian view, what actually grounds that we ought to defend rights if they are in fact just entitlements absent the duty by definition?

1:03:32Austin PetersonWell, not everybody not everybody has to defend rights. Very few people actually do. Right? It's usually a very small people... Group of people that end up defending rights overall. So, I mean, you know, are you asking why every person should have to defend

1:03:46Austin Petersontheir rights? Or or you

1:03:47Jim BobLet's say let's say acknowledge them.

1:03:48Austin PetersonI don't know if you're asking a tactical question here or if it's a philosophical question.

1:03:52Jim BobHow about how how about acknowledge instead of defend?

1:03:57Austin PetersonWell,

1:03:57Austin Petersonduty to acknowledge the the Yeah. That that they have... Well, I mean,

1:04:02Austin Petersonit it depends.

1:04:03Austin PetersonRight? Like, not everybody has a capacity to do that. Right? That's why the rights exist to an extent to protect the liberty of people who don't even necessarily have the capacity to acknowledge it, like children,

1:04:14Austin Petersonfor example, right, or the mentally deficient. Right? The mentally insane. Right? Those people have rights even if they don't... You know, can't acknowledge

1:04:23Austin Petersonthat they have those rights. They still... Just like the unborn, the unborn in the womb. They can't acknowledge that they have rights, but they but they do have rights. They can't acknowledge they have a duty to protect those rights.

1:04:35Austin PetersonSo we do that on their behalf through a constitutional government.

1:04:39Jim BobOkay. So if someone who doesn't have the capacity to know that they have these concept of rights,

1:04:46Jim Boband they don't have the the capability

1:04:48Jim Bobof,

1:04:49Jim Bobacting out the duty,

1:04:51Jim Bobright, that doesn't... That's not embedded in the rights, by the way. The duty is added.

1:04:56Jim BobI'm asking,

1:04:59Jim Bobif

1:05:00Jim Bobif granting someone rights,

1:05:03Jim Bobthat they can't actually act on in a way you've... You can violate their rights because they don't have the capacity to act on them. Right?

1:05:11Austin PetersonHappens every day, but you shouldn't, obviously. You know? I mean, like, you know, I think abortion is a crime and a crime against the rights of an individual.

1:05:19Austin PetersonThat person can't speak out on behalf of their own rights, so you have a a person who speaks out for them as an intermediary.

1:05:25Austin PetersonBut, I mean, most people most people do not acknowledge or or have a respect for a one

1:05:32Austin Petersonrights or a second one. Rights.

1:05:34Jim BobI I got you here. Jay Jay, let me finish this one last thing. So my question is, if Jay and I agree

1:05:41Jim Bobthat someone who's walking around the street sort of not fully naked, but almost, and it's... You know, from your view, it's their liberty. They didn't steal anything. They didn't violate anyone else's rights, and they didn't take, you know, any... Anybody's stuff or whatever. From our view,

1:05:57Jim Bobwe have a duty to actually

1:05:59Jim Bobviolate their autonomy.

1:06:02Jim BobRight? And from our perspective,

1:06:04Jim Bobtake care of them in a sense. Now taking care of such a person is actually a violation of their rights from your view. And that's why I ask from a... This is why I fundamentally reject libertarianism

1:06:15Jim Bobhaving gone through a phase of it is that if

1:06:18Jim Bobrights are are just privileges

1:06:21Jim Bobabsent duty, you still have to ground the duty part. And that's why Jay's asking about the ethics because the ought claim that we ought to acknowledge rights

1:06:29Jim Bobis separate from the rights itself. Right? So,

1:06:32Jim Bobit... From my view, it all comes down to duties.

1:06:35Jim BobThe And problem with libertarianism is if you value liberty above all things, liberty is a description of what is. Right? It doesn't tell us what we ought to do with liberty.

1:06:46Jim BobIt doesn't tell us when we should violate liberty or when we shouldn't violate liberty. It just gives you a baseline.

1:06:52Austin PetersonThat's the beauty of it. Right? I mean, isn't that sort

1:06:54Jim Bobof the beauty of Does San

1:06:55Austin PetersonFrancisco look beautiful? Is

1:06:57Jim Bobit Does San Francisco look beautiful?

1:06:59Austin PetersonWell, are you tell... Are... You're not using San Francisco as an example of libertarianism.

1:07:03Austin PetersonRight?

1:07:03Jim BobNo. No. Liberty. Just liberty.

1:07:05Austin PetersonBecause, like, it does... It's because, like, San Francisco is, like, the worst example you

1:07:08Jim Bobmight have. Burning Man? How about

1:07:10Austin PetersonBurning Man? Well, Burning Man

1:07:11Jim Bobactually better. Right?

1:07:13Austin PetersonMuch much better. Much more environment.

1:07:15Jim BobYeah.

1:07:15Austin PetersonBetter than San Francisco. At least they clean up after themselves. Right? Right? But it's... But but still, again, like, the... You you ask yourself. I guess what I'm trying to understand

1:07:24Austin Petersonhere is, like, are you saying that people don't have rights?

1:07:28Jim BobNo. Yeah. I'm actually saying they don't have hypothetical.

1:07:31Jay DyerCan I make it

1:07:31Austin Petersonright? Well,

1:07:32Jim Bobthat's I actually

1:07:33Austin PetersonI... Okay. I... That I that I did not know. So I I was not aware that you did not believe that people did. You know?

1:07:37Jim BobI Yeah. I think there are I think there are social construct

1:07:41Jim Bobthat are left with what... Two things. Force,

1:07:44Jim Bobwhatever the force is,

1:07:46Jim Boband two, whatever the, the standard of ethics is that's being imposed.

1:07:51Jim BobAnd and and we already all agree that rights, as you even say them,

1:07:56Jim Bobactually, not everyone gets them because you can violate them to do certain things. You can stop people from doing certain things based on on their situation. So the problem is it's the duties. I think my my belief is that only duties exist. And if rights are privileges absent duties, you still need duties to exist. And from the libertarian principle,

1:08:18Jim Bobthe only imperative

1:08:20Jim Bobis to seek freedom.

1:08:22Jim BobAnd to to look at liberty or freedom as an end goal is to say... Is to look at efficiency

1:08:28Jim Bobas the end goal. Well, efficiency is a description toward a goal, but it can't be the end goal just like liberty can't be the end goal. It's actually a start point,

1:08:37Jim Bobif anything.

1:08:38Jim BobAnd that's why Ought claims, like Jay's pointing to, the ethics, the metaethics,

1:08:42Jim Bobwhich I didn't really wanna get into. It bores the shit out of everyone except for me and maybe Jay and maybe maybe Chad. He has a pipe. So it probably doesn't board Chad. But it is important because if you organize a society around libertarianism,

1:08:55Jim Bobyou're actually entailing that there is a meta ethical principle that you ought to follow. And when you say something is degenerate,

1:09:03Jim Bobyou're actually assuming there's a positive in which being torn apart, and we just don't know what that positive is, that fabric that's being torn apart.

1:09:10Austin PetersonOkay. I don't know that necessarily,

1:09:12Austin Petersonother than the the the idea that we don't have rights, I'm not sure that what you and I are saying is saying is necessarily in conflict.

1:09:20Austin PetersonSome of what you're ask... You're saying there is a utilitarian

1:09:24Austin Petersonclaim. Right? You're you're stating that, you know, if a society existed,

1:09:29Austin Petersonaround these fundamental ideals,

1:09:31Austin Petersonso it does beg the question of, you know, whether or not that society, if it were to come into creation,

1:09:38Austin Petersonwould be able to fundamentally

1:09:40Austin Petersoncreate moral goods that then could potentially be degenerated,

1:09:45Austin Petersonyou know, if degeneracy were introduced into that system. Right? Would the... What what would that degeneracy be, and how would that system be degraded through that degeneracy or that moral decline?

1:09:57Austin PetersonSo it it seems that, you know, it it it doesn't sound like I'm disagreeing with much of what you're saying other

1:10:03Austin Petersonthan this concept that other than

1:10:05Austin Petersonthe concept that individuals,

1:10:07Austin Petersonyou know, don't have rights.

1:10:09Jim BobNo. No. This is this is where we disagree is that,

1:10:13Jim Bobwhen you go after,

1:10:14Jim BobJay, about, like, the but stuff is that what... The culture that we're seeing, right, in the West and other developed nations is that there is a clear deliberate pushing of certain behaviors, in this case, sexual. They're not just sexual. There's there's drug, behaviors being pushed. There's a lot of behaviors. But that specific thing is actually directed pretty much directly,

1:10:35Jim Bobexplicitly toward children. And so what we're saying is that if Right. If you back off

1:10:40Austin Petersonthe San Francisco metaphor... I mean, like, when I when I confronted you on the San Francisco example, I mean, like, you don't believe San Francisco is an example of a libertarian city.

1:10:50Jim BobRight? No. I didn't use libertarian,

1:10:52Jim Bobbut I do.

1:10:53Austin PetersonHow's that?

1:10:53Jim BobBut it's liberty based. It's liberty. It's based on the concept that liberty above

1:10:58Jay Dyerbecause there's no self evident definition of what liberty actually is or what your position actually is. You yourself said it was subjective, and that's why I asked you, why do you think that fallacies are able to be done in a debate? Do you not think that a debate is governed by the rules of logic and critical thinking?

1:11:17Austin PetersonWell, I never said that it... That live... The definition of liberty was necessarily subjective. So talking about straw man's, I never

1:11:23Jay Dyersaid asked you what it was. You said

1:11:25Austin Petersonall No. You asked me you asked me for where my moral standards came from. You didn't ask me what my objective definition

1:11:33Austin Petersonliberty is what?

1:11:33Jay DyerIs that not a value judgment?

1:11:36Jay DyerIt is

1:11:36Austin Petersona value judgment, but I never said it was subjective. So you can, you know, you can disagree with me, but please don't put words things

1:11:42Jay Dyerare subjective.

1:11:43Jay DyerI asked you about value judgments.

1:11:46Austin PetersonAre you are you asking about my value judgments now?

1:11:50Jay DyerI asked you then, and I'm asking you now.

1:11:53Austin PetersonOkay. So what about value judgments are you asking me specifically?

1:11:57Jay DyerWhere do you get the standard? Because if you're gonna say there's oughts,

1:12:00Jay Dyeryou gotta have a basis for the standard. Okay.

1:12:03Austin PetersonSaying there's one Is it okay?

1:12:04Austin PetersonIs it okay? Do I have to have one standard like you do, or am I allowed to use multiple?

1:12:10Jay DyerAm I allowed understand what... It doesn't even understand what it means to ask you.

1:12:13Austin PetersonI... I'm not like you guys. I don't I don't... I'm not a social conservative. Okay? So I do not conform to an an inherently monotheistic

1:12:23Austin Petersonview of society

1:12:24Austin Petersonthat bases all value judgments

1:12:27Austin Petersonon one single standard handed down to me from on high. I don't have

1:12:31Chad O. Jacksona Are lot you a I don't have a

1:12:33Austin Petersonlot even understand.

1:12:34Chad O. JacksonAre you a postmodernist, Austin?

1:12:36Jay DyerHe doesn't have

1:12:36Austin Petersona word.

1:12:37Austin PetersonJack, I'm No.

1:12:38Austin PetersonI'm not a no. I'm not a postmodernist.

1:12:40Austin PetersonNo. And, and, no, I do not agree with the wokeies that there is no such thing as objective truth. Okay. So what's the basis of

1:12:47Jay Dyerwhat this thing is?

1:12:48Austin PetersonThing. But I don't believe in one

1:12:50Austin Petersonone truth handed to you down

1:12:53Austin PetersonYou do.

1:12:54Jim BobNo. You do. You do. You you do. Hold on. No. No. Austin, you do.

1:12:59Austin PetersonI believe in the amalgam. I I believe in what's called triangulation.

1:13:03Jim BobWhat's the one thing? Hold on. Yeah. Austin, you said something false. You gotta be corrected. There is one truth.

1:13:10Jim BobYeah. There is one truth that you rested on.

1:13:13Austin PetersonI do not believe in one

1:13:15Austin Petersonmetaphysical Yes.

1:13:16Jim BobYou do. Yes. You do.

1:13:18Austin PetersonHanded down to

1:13:19Austin Petersonother a guy.

1:13:20Jay DyerYou understand that that's

1:13:21Austin Petersonsingle I think that I

1:13:22Austin Petersonthink that the only way that the only way to

1:13:24Jay Dyertalk single principle, dummy.

1:13:26Austin PetersonThat's the single principle. Only listen, Jay. I don't call you, like, a basement dwelling retard that looks like you smell bad and you haven't taken a shower in a month. So if you could keep the personal I mean, you're gonna try your...

1:13:37Austin PetersonIf it's probably gonna be funny. Before you criticize my dude.

1:13:41Austin PetersonIf you're gonna throw me your toilet Maybe you should take a shower, Retort.

1:13:44Austin PetersonBecause I

1:13:45Austin Petersoncould smell

1:13:46Austin Petersonyou from here and how you look. So I'm a minute. Did you copy your picture, though? There's the concept. There's the concept. So his ethical

1:13:53Austin Petersonwhat it can be

1:13:54Austin Petersondetermining what is more. Listen, you fucking retard. I'm speaking. Okay? There is a concept to find what what is true called triangulation.

1:14:03Austin PetersonAnd what you do is

1:14:04Austin PetersonYou don't even understand who have already refused. You have a

1:14:06Austin PetersonLet me

1:14:06Austin Petersontell you guys how logic is.

1:14:08Jay DyerEven understand that it's one

1:14:09Jim BobWell, let me go. Jay, let him... Jay, let him go. Jay, let him go.

1:14:11Austin PetersonJay, let to me you how you find logic. You go out and you find information. There's an information gathering

1:14:17Austin PetersonNot a logic.

1:14:18Austin PetersonStart... You don't start with a conclusion. That's not what logic is. You don't start with finding

1:14:23Jim Bobthe truth.

1:14:24Austin PetersonYou think I'm lying in

1:14:25Jim Bobthe truth.

1:14:26Austin PetersonHold on. Jay, hold on

1:14:26Jim Boba second. Let me let me let me just manage this. Austin,

1:14:29Jim Bobyou said you don't you don't stand on a single truth, right, a monolithic truth

1:14:35Jim Bobfor your values?

1:14:37Jim BobI don't believe that...

1:14:38Austin PetersonI do not believe the truth is handed down to us from high as a revelation. Do I not believe in a a revelational statement.

1:14:44Austin PetersonBelieve in a revealed

1:14:45Austin Petersona revealed truth. Now

1:14:46Austin PetersonI do.

1:14:47Jim BobHold on. Hold on. How... And then you said you triangulate

1:14:51Jim Bobto see what's logical and true outside. And I'm asking you from both of those standards, right, from both of those statements that you don't get any revelation of what's true. You triangulate and you use rationality and reason. Right? I'm asking you, well, it seems as though your foundation is actually rested on one solid brick that you assume before you can

1:15:12Jim Boblook out in the world and find it, and it's called a human right.

1:15:16Austin PetersonWell, that's only one example amongst many. See, the thing is is that if if if these concepts,

1:15:24Austin Petersonthey work together just like a cons... The construction of a building. Right? You have to have one pillar and then the next, and then you have to build it all on the foundation.

1:15:33Austin PetersonOkay? And so in order for us to determine, in my view, in order to us to determine what is true, we have to go out... We don't we don't know what is true and then go out and find facts to support it. Where'd you find rights? Find facts. We find facts. Right. And then we put them together.

1:15:49Jim BobGreat. Where'd you find where'd

1:15:51Jim Bobyou find rights?

1:15:52Jim BobWhere'd you find rights, though, then? If your standard for epistemology

1:15:56Jim Boband what's true is looking out and doing triangulation

1:15:59Jim Boband and reasoning, I'm asking you, how did you come to the conclusion using that method that rights exist?

1:16:07Austin PetersonWell, here's the here's the thing. I'm willing to change my mind if I'm wrong, but I drew this conclusion

1:16:14Austin Petersonbased on a litany of literature

1:16:18Austin Petersonthat con... That was convincing enough to me, and I would present to you

1:16:22Jay DyerA litany.

1:16:23Austin PetersonYou would A whole litany? A whole litany of literature? A whole body of a cat lady? A

1:16:28Austin Petersonwhole litany?

1:16:29Austin PetersonFind that I find that you can

1:16:30Austin Petersonpresent to

1:16:31Austin Petersona little

1:16:32Jim BobSo wait. So wait. Literature. What if we say, well, that's what revelation is to us? So you still have a a problem in your method because you said your method is you don't start from your conclusion

1:16:44Jim Boband you go out and find things. So let's say you found literature. Right? I'm asking you,

1:16:49Jim Bobwhat method did you determine

1:16:52Jim Bobto say that rights exist? I'm not sure how you would possibly come to the conclusion by looking to the external world that something like rights exist

1:16:59Austin Petersonwrestle with that.

1:17:00Austin PetersonListen,

1:17:01Austin PetersonJim Bob. I wrestle with that. Right? I wrestle with that just like I wrestle with a lot of concepts. And, you know, I absolutely could be wrong.

1:17:08Austin PetersonAnd, you know, you you could convince me that that what I have divined from my education and my knowledge and limited experience,

1:17:18Austin Petersoncould be incorrect.

1:17:19Austin PetersonBut I'll... I can only show you what I have read in regards to the natural law,

1:17:26Austin Petersonin regards to, you know, the treatises of government, John Locke. Right? Life, liberty, and property.

1:17:32Austin PetersonI can only show... I can only point to those. Right? Because with me being a being a secondhand purveyor of ideas,

1:17:40Austin PetersonI can only show you those and say,

1:17:42Austin Petersonthis is what I believe to be true based on how

1:17:45Austin Petersonclosely it corresponds

1:17:48Austin Petersonto what I believe to be reality,

1:17:50Austin Petersonand I ask you

1:17:52Austin Petersonto believe it as well Sure. Yeah. Based on whether or not you can. But but I could be wrong. I'm willing

1:17:58Jim Bobto admit that. What I observe in reality is force wins,

1:18:02Jim Bobboth in the animal kingdom and the human. And so for me

1:18:06Austin PetersonWhat do you mean?

1:18:06Jim BobThis is... The the descriptive truth about reality in in all animals and and humans is that force force wins.

1:18:15Jim BobDo you disagree?

1:18:18Austin PetersonI mean, like, you just mean in general, like, 100% of the time, or you're like, in general?

1:18:23Jim BobThere's always force,

1:18:25Jim Bobready to go, either looming or there's always force being used.

1:18:28Austin PetersonYeah. Yeah. I agree. And I mean, like... And and I... So I wrestle with that. And I'll tell you, it's... I think that, you know, it it... It's it's difficult to live in a society

1:18:37Austin Petersonwhere

1:18:37Austin Petersonwe can balance to... Or to create a society where there is a balance against those laws of nature. Right? So, like, just to create a civilization,

1:18:47Austin Petersonif we will, is to sort of reject the fundamental roots.

1:18:51Jim BobYou mean appeal to you mean you mean appeal to something supernatural.

1:18:55Jim BobRight?

1:18:57Austin PetersonWhat do you mean?

1:18:58Jim BobYou have to reject... You reject

1:19:00Jim Bobthe brute nature. Right? For us to have dignity as human beings. Right? Mhmm. To to ground the value of us being human beings, which is not identical to your dog Right. Is

1:19:11Jim Bobis something not found in nature. So we don't find these things... You know, rights assume dignity. Right? But it also assumes,

1:19:20Jim Bobsome sort of duty. And so if if we both agree the descriptive truth in premise one for the world is that force wins and force is always in action or it's looming at least. Right?

1:19:30Jim BobIt's always looming.

1:19:33Jim BobAnd so if that's if that's the case, then would you agree that it actually wouldn't be a right

1:19:39Jim Bobthat informs our behavior, but rather a duty that would actually give us how we ought. Right? Okay. Sure. So so if the truth of the matter is force wins and

1:19:49Jim Boband that's the way of the land for for animals and humans,

1:19:53Jim Bobthat there's something that intervenes that isn't necessarily an entitlement.

1:19:58Jim BobAnd would you say if that entitlement even existed, which I don't believe it does, you would still have to point to the duty

1:20:07Jim Bobin which, tell... Informs us how we should interact with each other.

1:20:11Austin PetersonNot necessarily. I mean, you're partially right. I mean, I do think that, like, force wins

1:20:16Austin Petersonin nature outside of what man has created. But, you know, there... You know, cops,

1:20:22Austin Petersoncourts,

1:20:23Austin Petersonyou know, nuclear weapons,

1:20:24Austin Petersonright, the instrumentation

1:20:26Austin Petersonof the state. Right? So since I'm not an anarchist and I do believe in a limited government, then that means that I do believe in an artificial

1:20:34Austin Petersonthird party,

1:20:35Austin Petersonyou know, interceding

1:20:37Austin Petersonin order to ensure

1:20:39Austin Petersonthat

1:20:39Austin Petersonforce doesn't always win. And I think the truth is is that it doesn't. Right? The fact that No. Hold on. Hold on. Hey. Wait. But wait. I'm almost done. The fact that grandma,

1:20:50Austin Petersonyou know, can safely go and get groceries here in Mid Missouri

1:20:54Austin Petersonwithout having to worry about bands of highwaymen or thieves

1:20:57Jim BobBecause of force.

1:20:58Austin PetersonBecause of force. Yes. Because of force, but that's introduced in a way to ensure

1:21:03Austin Petersonthat that force

1:21:05Austin Petersondoesn't always win

1:21:06Jim Bobin the force. The threat of force does.

1:21:10Austin PetersonThe

1:21:10Austin Petersonthreat of force always wins?

1:21:12Jim BobYeah. If you wanna if you wanna appeal to rights, all you're appealing to is an agreement that you have an entitlement that ought not be violated. And if it is, there's a consequence that is force. Right? And so force wins is still descriptively true even in your system of rights. Now what we're pointing to is that's actually not good enough for a for a society that has any sort of fundamental,

1:21:35Jim Bobprinciples

1:21:36Jim Bobor good, a sense of a good, and these things that that you actually need to confront the problem that entitlements themselves actually just leads you down a path like we're seeing today where now you have,

1:21:48Jim Bobmodifiers

1:21:49Jim Bobfor entitlements. You have the gay entitlement.

1:21:51Jim BobYou have the... This entitlement, the black entitlement, the... You know, whatever.

1:21:55Jim BobAnd you just keep adding entitlements. Now notice how no entitlement that's ever given

1:22:01Jim Bobis ever paired with the duty. What what grounds this duty that we ought to value or acknowledge entitlements at all? And from your view, you can't ground it in the natural natural world. It's nowhere found.

1:22:14Jim BobAnd so the thing that actually makes us intervene as human beings is the assumption

1:22:19Jim Bobthat we're actually not just animals. We're not just a part of nature.

1:22:23Jim BobThat something is in us that's bigger than that, and it necessarily needs to be supernatural

1:22:29Jim Bobbecause you can't find these things in nature. And so we're asking you

1:22:33Jay DyerYou can...

1:22:33Austin PetersonI can be convinced. I could be convinced of that.

1:22:36Austin PetersonAnd, certainly, I'd love to see your evidence for it, and I'm willing

1:22:39Jim Bobto Evidence for a supernatural.

1:22:40Jim BobWell, what's the evidence of a right?

1:22:42Austin PetersonLove to see... I would love to... Look. I'm not... I... Listen. I'm not the one making claims suit... Super... I'm not making

1:22:47Jim BobYou are.

1:22:48Austin PetersonExtraordinary. I'm not making extraordinary claims.

1:22:50Jim BobYou did. Right. A right a right is a supernatural No.

1:22:53Austin PetersonNo. No. Everything that everything that I say can... I can point to and say Where's a right? And verify. A right?

1:23:00Austin PetersonWhere's a right? Low tier.

1:23:01Austin PetersonBut but listen, man. You're you're the one making extraordinary claims.

1:23:05Austin PetersonExtraordinary claims require extraordinary... You're saying that

1:23:08Jim BobRights exist. Supernatural. No. No.

1:23:10Austin PetersonYou're working

1:23:10Austin Petersonon it. You're Our positive thing will

1:23:12Austin Petersonactually

1:23:13Austin Petersoncoherent because it never makes sense that they're

1:23:16Jim BobRights exist. Rights exist is supernatural.

1:23:19Jay DyerGonna answer me. Do you be wrong or talk

1:23:20Austin Petersonover me? Do you believe that you could be wrong about your worldview?

1:23:25Austin PetersonMy worldview. Are you willing to admit

1:23:28Austin Petersonthat that your metaphysical claims could potentially be wrong?

1:23:31Jim BobNo. No. Because metaphysics needs to be... No. Because here's why, Austin. Hold on. First of all the same No. No. Hold on a second. Let's just go one one thing at a time.

1:23:40Jim BobAustin, you said

1:23:41Jim Bobextraordinary claims require evidence. I simply asked you. I'm telling you that a right is an extraordinary

1:23:47Austin Petersonclaim. Evidence.

1:23:48Jim BobAnd I'm asking you where the evidence... I'm telling you, Austin, as a... As an olive branch, you already believe in the supernatural.

1:23:55Jim BobA right is metanatural.

1:23:57Austin PetersonOh, that's crazy.

1:23:58Jim BobWhere is it? Where

1:23:59Jim BobGuys, is it?

1:24:01Austin PetersonYou're crazy. Guys Because you don't

1:24:03Austin Petersonthat question. Someone who's telling you that, like, a basis of rights that's built up on a lit Your basis. Foundation of Your basis. All the evidence.

1:24:11Austin PetersonWhat's your basis?

1:24:12Austin PetersonIt's not the same thing What is your basis? As claiming revealing truth.

1:24:17Austin PetersonLike, it's

1:24:17Austin Petersonnot the same thing. You literally can't answer it.

1:24:19Austin PetersonIt's Where's

1:24:20Jim Bobyour right?

1:24:20Austin PetersonEntire audience. We don't... We're not we're

1:24:23Austin Petersonnot even speaking up. We're talking past each other.

1:24:25Jim BobAre there evidence for rights?

1:24:26Austin PetersonClaims...

1:24:27Austin PetersonYour claims are based on the supernatural,

1:24:29Austin Petersonand mine are

1:24:31Jim BobWhere's a right?

1:24:31Jay DyerYeah. But that doesn't mean that it... It's grounded. That's the point.

1:24:34Jim BobWhere's the right, though? It's supernatural. It's not found in nature.

1:24:39Austin PetersonWell well, where is your thought? Do you have thoughts? Are they in your brain?

1:24:42Jim BobThey're metaphysical. Thoughts?

1:24:43Austin PetersonNo. No. No. Open up your brain, could I show you

1:24:45Austin Petersona thought?

1:24:45Austin PetersonBut do

1:24:46Jim Bobyou have thought? Great.

1:24:47Austin PetersonWe both agree.

1:24:49Jim BobOpen This is good.

1:24:49Austin PetersonUp your skull and prove that there's a thought?

1:24:52Jim BobAre we good? Good. We reject we reject materialism.

1:24:55Jim BobDo we both not reject material materialism now? Right?

1:24:59Austin PetersonNo. I do not reject materialism.

1:25:01Jim BobOkay. So where's a right? So where's a right then?

1:25:04Austin PetersonI... Like, you... So you're saying concepts.

1:25:06Austin PetersonWhich molecules make up a right?

1:25:08Jim BobYeah. Tell us where right is.

1:25:09Austin PetersonWell, listen. You'll have to talk to a brain chemist Listen. To explain to you what the electrical

1:25:14Jay Dyersymbol chemistry can tell you where a right is.

1:25:17Austin PetersonOkay. Alright. Well, listen. Hey. Listen. You you may have an actual natural

1:25:21Jay Dyeror not?

1:25:23Austin PetersonI... You know, I simply deny them and say, I don't see that that's the case. I'm willing to believe it.

1:25:28Jim BobHow about take another example? How about take another example that you appeal to? Are the laws of logic,

1:25:33Jim Bobreal? Do you believe they exist?

1:25:35Austin PetersonThe laws of logic. Do I believe that they exist?

1:25:37Jim BobYes. Yeah. Where? Okay. So where do they exist?

1:25:40Austin PetersonMake up

1:25:40Jay Dyerthe laws of logic.

1:25:42Jim BobRight.

1:25:43Austin PetersonOh my god, guys. Like, you you wanna go on and off Every time you can't Oh my

1:25:47Austin Petersongod, guys.

1:25:48Jim BobIt's a fair question.

1:25:49Austin PetersonYou're you're so much literal. So listen. Socra... You wanna talk about Socratic debate. Right?

1:25:54Austin PetersonSo, like No.

1:25:55Austin PetersonHow do the laws of law exist?

1:25:56Austin PetersonWell, you're asking does Socratic debate method work? Okay.

1:26:00Jim BobNo. That no. That requires

1:26:01Austin PetersonDo I

1:26:02Austin Petersonneed to explain to you, like, how to use the Socratic method, and we're still dumb. Please. Enlighten us.

1:26:09Jim BobEnlighten Austin Austin, debate

1:26:11Austin Petersonenlighten us.

1:26:12Jim BobAustin, debate is not the same as the laws of logic.

1:26:15Jim BobDebate presuppose the laws of logic. We're asking you. If you... I I don't know why this is hard for you to concede to. You appeal to things that are not found in nature that don't weigh or smell or you can't see them. Right? We... This isn't a big... This isn't controversial.

1:26:30Jim BobYou appeal to things that are not found as matter. Correct?

1:26:35Jim BobNo.

1:26:36Jim BobYou don't? Okay. So where is a right found as matter?

1:26:42Austin PetersonSo a right is a concept that arises from matter.

1:26:46Jim BobHow does it arise from matter?

1:26:49Jim BobIs it matter?

1:26:50Jay DyerThen you're not a materialist.

1:26:53Austin PetersonIt is a it is a... Just because something is a concept doesn't mean that it's not material. Right?

1:26:58Austin PetersonWhat molecules

1:26:59Austin Petersonis created from material. Make up a concept.

1:27:03Austin PetersonWhat molecules make a Guys, this is not even an interesting conversation, and I feel bad for you. You don't have an answer to it.

1:27:09Jim BobChad, let's go let's go to Chad.

1:27:10Austin PetersonAsk nothing about it. I just think it's boring.

1:27:12Austin PetersonHe accused me... Hold on. The the thing

1:27:14Jay Dyerthat got this all sour was that he accused me of foisting conspiracy theories. He doesn't even know what I talked about. He just assumed that because I'm on Infowars,

1:27:22Jay DyerI foist all the conspiracy theories. Name one thing that I teach that's false or one thing I've said false about Yuri Bezmenov. You said I just made it up. Can you explain it? Because you immediately got salty over that. No justification for those accusations.

1:27:36Austin PetersonOkay.

1:27:38Chad O. JacksonWell, so the question that I had for Austin was,

1:27:42Chad O. JacksonI mean, you you accused Jay of building a straw man,

1:27:47Chad O. Jacksonif if I'm not mistaken.

1:27:50Chad O. JacksonBut you then use a straw man to explain Jay's view as being... Of wanting people not to have butt sex and and basically policing

1:27:58Chad O. Jacksonpeople as far as their morals and and and things are concerned. I guess my question for you is,

1:28:04Chad O. Jacksonlike, how is your view not a postmodern view?

1:28:07Chad O. JacksonIf your basis...

1:28:09Chad O. JacksonIf your argument isn't based on any kind of objective understanding

1:28:12Chad O. Jacksonof truth and morality,

1:28:15Chad O. Jacksonif you are kind of adhering to this more fluid way of thinking

1:28:19Chad O. Jacksonand of

1:28:20Chad O. Jacksonhaving your views changed by, I guess, the next smartest person in the room, how is that not most... How is that not postmodern?

1:28:28Austin PetersonWell, I mean, I've... I mean, it's... God, man. I hope you're asking that question legitimately because postmodernism

1:28:35Austin Petersonis just to say... Suggest that there is no objective truth. I do believe that there is objective truth, but I don't necessarily claim to know all of objective truth. I don't claim to know all of the answers.

1:28:47Austin PetersonI only know of... Actually, I think I know very little in regards to all of the potential of human knowledge. Most people know very little. Right? So, like, the concept of knowledge itself,

1:28:59Austin Petersonlike, is... We are very limited as humans with these meat brains of what we can actually have a capacity to understand. So just because I just because I don't know it all doesn't mean that I don't think there is an objective standard. I do. And when I find those bits of truth along the way, those very rare

1:29:17Austin Petersonjewels

1:29:18Austin Petersonin my search for knowledge. Like, I reveal them, I believe, and and will... I'm willing to have them challenged. I'm willing to have them questioned. But I don't think you... I... Wait.

1:29:27Austin PetersonI don't I don't get that

1:29:28Austin Petersonbad at all. You're

1:29:29Jay Dyernot willing

1:29:29Austin Petersonto help You can say that. I'm almost... You immediately went to add homo nymph.

1:29:32Austin PetersonBut, like, as soon as I start

1:29:34Austin Petersonpost modernist, if he...

1:29:35Austin PetersonIf you don't believe in a higher power, you went to

1:29:37Austin PetersonYou know, like, it's not like... It's not Christian talks over, so he

1:29:40Jay Dyerknows when there's a person that...

1:29:42Austin PetersonThat's... Hold on. I'm almost done.

1:29:44Austin PetersonJay, you can you can... You're So that's his old that's his old movie. You can you can slander me in a moment. Chad. Slander. The... You... It's not this question out of slander. It's not theism versus postmodernism.

1:29:56Austin PetersonRight? You you don't have to be a theist,

1:29:59Austin Petersonyou know, in order to not be a postmodernist.

1:30:01Jay DyerYou do.

1:30:02Austin PetersonRight? You can you can be... You cannot be a postmodernist

1:30:05Austin Petersonand not necessarily

1:30:06Austin Petersonbelieve that the objective truth is handed down as just real knowledge. Right?

1:30:11Austin PetersonThere are plenty of sec... There are plenty of secularists

1:30:14Austin Petersonwho do not accept the postmodernism.

1:30:16Jay DyerThat's a fallacy. Do you even know what a fallacy is? Like, you just appeal to

1:30:20Jay Dyera mass fallacy, like, like, mass appeal. Do do you know what fallacies are?

1:30:28Chad O. JacksonNo. Or he doesn't know. Austin, do you, would you say that your views as it relates to morality and and and things like that are more humanist?

1:30:36Austin PetersonYes.

1:30:38Chad O. JacksonOkay.

1:30:38Jay DyerAnd what is a fallacy? What's a fallacy?

1:30:41Jim BobHere. Let let Chad run this line. Let Chad run this line. Go ahead, Chad.

1:30:46Chad O. JacksonSo so break that down, if you will. So so you're... You you would be more humanist in your, I guess, moral worldview.

1:30:52Austin PetersonYeah. I consider myself a secular humanist in the sense that I think that the concerns

1:30:57Austin Petersonof humanity

1:30:59Austin Petersonand of material concerns, things on this planet

1:31:03Austin Petersonshould be the primary concern for humans and not that which is celestial. Right? So that's in... And that's how I would define, you know,

1:31:11Jay Dyera human.... Immediately go to the ad homonyms?

1:31:16Austin PetersonDid you wanna follow-up with that, Chad?

1:31:18Jay DyerYou're not gonna answer. So he just said ignore me because you went to ad homonyms first.

1:31:22Austin PetersonYou said

1:31:24Austin Petersonyou wanted to

1:31:24Jay Dyerbe challenged.

1:31:25Jay DyerYou don't wanna be challenged.

1:31:26Austin PetersonAnd you went to ad homonyms.

1:31:27Austin PetersonI I don't roll around in the mud with pigs because you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

1:31:32Jay DyerSo you wanna be challenged. When you're challenged, you go to ad homonyms. Why?

1:31:50Jim BobChat hasn't talked a lot. I actually wanna see where he run... Runs this. I wanna see where he runs it.

1:31:54Austin PetersonSo I mean, like After after the

1:31:56Austin Petersonpipe. Like, do you... Like, is postmodernism,

1:31:58Austin Petersonlike, secularism

1:32:00Austin Petersonand humanism

1:32:02Austin Petersonaren't intrinsically tied to postmodernism?

1:32:06Chad O. JacksonHow? How aren't they?

1:32:09Chad O. JacksonWell So you say they're you're...

1:32:11Austin PetersonYou say they're not I mean, I'm here on the example in front of you. Right? So I believe that there are objective moral standards

1:32:17Austin Petersonand that truth is a real concept that exists.

1:32:21Austin PetersonRight? But it's not ever changing. Now our knowledge and our understanding of it may be changing because when I say I think I know the truth, I could be wrong,

1:32:31Austin Petersonand I'm willing to change my mind if you provide evidence

1:32:35Austin Petersonthat contradicts

1:32:37Austin Petersonmy beliefs and my world or my understanding. Or you provide facts that contradict,

1:32:41Austin Petersonand you... You're able to to effectively

1:32:44Austin Petersonpersuade me. But the truth was the truth

1:32:48Austin Petersoneven if I didn't understand it. A postmodernist would say, the truth changes or I'm living my truth.

1:32:55Austin PetersonAnd that's not what I'm saying. And that's

1:32:57Austin Petersonnot Hold on. But hold on

1:32:58Jim Boba second. You are saying that, and here's how. Because if you're a materialist

1:33:02Jim Boband truth and the logic and these things are material and they come from a mechanism called the brain, then these are just kind of like effects

1:33:10Jim Bobthat come from a machine. Right? And so those effects could change. Like, how could you say one group of molecules called the truth from a brain is true and another group of molecules from another brain is false?

1:33:21Jim BobI don't know how you're gonna say the truth

1:33:23Austin Petersonis is just incorrect.

1:33:25Jim BobYeah. But that appeals to the that appeals to the chemical reactions again to another brain. Right? And so this is why materialism should be rejected wholesale because when you say, well, Chad just said a truth, but that just came from his brain. It's just an emergent property of a machine. And then you say, well, that's true for what you just said. Right? Austin, you have to say yes.

1:33:46Jim BobIt is. How could it not be? How could it not be?

1:33:48Austin PetersonYou know, like, you know, there's there's a lot of complicated concepts in in what you've said. Right? And and so, you know, there's a lot there's a lot to unpack there. But I don't know that necessarily

1:33:58Austin Petersonmaterialism

1:34:00Austin Petersonis... You know, requires one to believe in an unfixed

1:34:04Austin Petersonconcept of what is true.

1:34:07Austin PetersonRight? I I... I've actually... I believe the opposite of that. So I do think that materialism

1:34:12Austin Petersonand objective

1:34:13Austin Petersonreality and objective truth,

1:34:16Austin Petersonlike, they all exist within the same plane or the same sphere.

1:34:19Jim BobLet's go to aesthetic. Let's go to aesthetics. That's good.

1:34:22Austin PetersonYeah. I'm gonna I'm

1:34:22Jay Dyergonna throw that out. Hey. If this guy's not gonna answer any questions, there's no real... There's no point me being being here early. So

1:34:28Jim BobAlright. Thanks thanks, Jay.

1:34:29Jay DyerAppreciate it. Well, good luck with being a single gay man in an apartment with a lot of books.

1:34:33Austin PetersonOh, okay. Well, good luck with obsessing over gay sex. You smegma smelling retard.

1:34:38Austin PetersonSee you later.

1:34:39Jay DyerYou don't even have good jokes, At least if you're

1:34:41Austin Petersongonna make a good joke.

1:34:42Austin PetersonOkay. Well, I'm gonna get a I'm rebel tooth. Bath is in... Hopefully, a bath is in tooth. I got a rebel tooth.

1:34:48Austin PetersonThe the best you've

1:34:49Austin Petersongot is the best you've got is...

1:34:50Austin PetersonHopefully, tonight, a bath is in your teeth.

1:34:52Austin PetersonWash your hair. Use shampoo. Good morning. I'm like,

1:34:55Austin Petersondrink drink

1:34:56Austin Petersonthe fluoridated drink the fluoridated water. Good, dude. Like, don't forget to run the fluoridated water through your mouth. Don't

1:35:02Austin Petersonlet the c I... Don't let the c I a chip mind control you. Anyways, can we please have a different Okay. You wanna discuss aesthetics.

1:35:09Jim BobAustin, yeah, what is your reason for saying something is more