HEATED DEBATE! “jesusandwhatnot” Vs Jay Dyer! His ‘Gotcha’ Fails LOL

0:37Speaker 0I wanna slide this shit out your nappy. Biscuit over here now. I got a heck of stars now. Oh, you gonna punch that bitch in the good right now. Biscuit over here on now. Somebody heaven. I knocked the punch in the good, bitch. She demonite.

0:55Speaker 1Got a demonite.

0:59Speaker 0Got a demonite.

1:01Speaker 0She

1:02Speaker 0got a demonite. Demonite.

1:05Speaker 0Demonite.

2:38Speaker 1Jamie,

2:40Speaker 1could you make me a espresso?

2:42Speaker 1Okay. We're gonna open it up. Let's keep it on topic.

2:46Speaker 1One plus one plus one equal three.

2:49Speaker 1Icons are idolatry.

2:51Speaker 1JJ,

2:52Speaker 1but, Jay, can I talk? But it was an ex cathedra.

2:56Speaker 1If god is real, why does he allow evil? Why do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men, it's a no brainer. You're such a tyrannical

3:05Speaker 1rayner.

3:19Speaker 1Tier slow boys.

3:20Base CatholicIs

3:20Speaker 1this

3:22Speaker 1your first time on the inner world? Shave it.

3:25Jay DyerI need a ginger chew.

3:27Speaker 1Was that an uncreated foot fart?

3:30Speaker 1Unmute, dude. Stop repeating my name, dude. You goobers

3:36Speaker 1You're

3:44Speaker 1goddess. A

3:48Speaker 1You're You are in a cult. You're a a goblin,

3:51Speaker 1a demon, a boomer tard.

3:54Speaker 1Quick question.

3:56Speaker 1Do we have any ditty back venerators in the chat?

4:07Speaker 1Did you ever have victory outreach experience when we're on the West Coast?

4:12Jay DyerWhat is that?

4:12Speaker 1It's basically like cholo church.

4:15Jay DyerOh, really? Cringe core. Cholo church.

4:18Jay DyerHey, dude.

4:19Base CatholicThis is great,

4:20Jay Dyerbro.

4:22Jay DyerCholo church. Look, homie. You could go anywhere, bro. So

4:27Jay Dyercholo church. I'd be going here instead of freaking Ruzma's church or whatever,

4:32Jay DyerCholo church. Dude, this church is about 50 times less gay than freaking Ruzma, bro. Cholo church.

4:39Jay DyerDude, how come I didn't even know about freaking Cholo church?

4:43Jay DyerJB,

4:44Jay Dyerdude. Why? How come he ain't a Cholo church, bro? Cholo church. He's over trying to get inside of the fucking rousalans butt bunny church. Cholo church.

4:54Speaker 4Do we need to go to cholo church,

4:55Speaker 11bro?

4:56Speaker 11Cholo church.

5:26Jay DyerHow do all the, cholo women, like, they were fat before everybody was fat, dude. It's like, cholo women were just always like a circle, dude.

5:36Jay DyerLike, they was bored coming out like a circle, bro.

5:38Speaker 5Like, they

5:39Jay Dyerdidn't even go through, like, a transformation where they were, like, hot when they were young or whatever. Like, they was just straight up circle the whole time, bro. The sphere, bro. That's the orb that Samsung was talking about.

5:49Jay DyerAnd how could you refute me or whatever?

5:52Jay DyerShow up, church.

5:56Speaker 4I need seven figures.

5:59Speaker 4I need seven figures.

6:01Speaker 4I need seven figures.

6:05Jay DyerY'all ready for this?

6:08Jay DyerIt's almost that time. Last song.

7:52Speaker 4Let's create

8:46Jay DyerY'all ready for this?

8:50Jay DyerThe piano interlude signifies

8:52Jay Dyerthe end

8:55Jay Dyerand the beginning of your destruction.

9:01Jay DyerWe will go live in just one second with calls.

9:34Jay DyerYou gotta admit, I'm not a huge fan of the AI songs, but that one's kinda good.

9:39Jay DyerI have three permitted AI songs. That's it. We only allow the couple

9:43Jay Dyerthat support what we do over here. Steven, Stefan.

9:49Jay DyerWhat's up, Stefan Harris? What's on your mind, son?

9:54Jay DyerI'm you, dude.

9:59Jay DyerSteven, I'm muted.

10:07Jay DyerI'm mute.

10:09Base CatholicYes.

10:11Base CatholicYes.

10:13Jay DyerHe figured it out. What's on your mind, dog?

10:17Speaker 1RJ.

10:19Speaker 1Before 1970,

10:21Speaker 1you couldn't even join the church

10:24Speaker 1being divorced and remarried

10:27Speaker 1while your first spouse was still living before the nineteen seventies,

10:31Speaker 1before the sexual revolution came here.

10:34Speaker 1This idea of joining the Orthodox Church,

10:38Speaker 1that where they you know, the Russians can get divorced and remarried three times, and I know that goes back thousands of years.

10:46Speaker 1That is nonsense.

10:48Speaker 1It's right there in Romans chapter seven.

10:51Speaker 1If your husband's still alive and she gets remarried, she shall be called an adulteress.

10:57Speaker 1That is sealed.

10:58Speaker 1Billions of bibles. Sealed. Nobody can get around that.

11:02Jay DyerBillions of bibles sealed it?

11:05Speaker 1It's in the bible. It's in there.

11:07Jay DyerBut it wasn't in billions of it was in

11:09Speaker 1issue I have with you, Jay Dyer.

11:10Jay DyerIt was in billions of them? Was it in a billion bibles, baby?

11:16Speaker 1Yeah. The the sexual revolution changed the churches.

11:19Jay DyerChanged them?

11:20Speaker 1And, JV, did you cover

11:23Speaker 1what what the Wall Street did

11:26Speaker 1Wall Street? To pay grants

11:28Speaker 1to pay corporate grants

11:30Base Catholicin the

11:31Speaker 1church denomination.

11:32Speaker 1Did you discover that

11:34Speaker 1inside the sexual revolution?

11:36Speaker 0Sex Hey.

11:41Speaker 1That that doctrine is devastating, but it's

11:43Jay DyerDamn, son. It's over, dude. Orthodoxy's

11:47Jay Dyerended, son.

11:49Jay DyerHow did you calculate how did you calculate the billions of bibles?

11:55Speaker 1They it how

11:57Jay Dyerdid you calculate it?

11:58Speaker 1Bibles have been told, Guardian. You know that.

12:01Jay DyerA billion? You know that. It was sealed in a billion bibles.

12:06Jay DyerDid you know that modern modern calculators

12:09Jay Dyerafter 1970

12:10Jay Dyerwere the first calculators that could even calculate a billion?

12:14Jay DyerSo that's not even true because you couldn't even calculate it.

12:20Jay DyerExactly.

12:21Jay DyerNothing to say about calculators.

12:24Speaker 1Let's go over your doctrine, Jay.

12:27Jay DyerLet's go over my doctor. Mhmm.

12:29Speaker 1Yes. That's the issue.

12:30Jay DyerAre you a Roman Catholic?

12:33Speaker 1No. No.

12:34Jay DyerNo. I'm not a Roman Catholic. I'm not a wait. So you're a Protestant. You understand the entire Protestant world believes in divorce. So how's that gonna work out?

12:43Speaker 1That's because of what was taught after the sexual revolution. Let's take the church of God in Christ as an example.

12:51Speaker 1In 1973,

12:53Speaker 1that's when the church of God in Christ

12:55Jay DyerSo this critique that's the So this critique of

12:58Speaker 1is when

12:58Jay Dyerthey allow Who cares about the church. Nobody cares about some random black denomination. So what? Who so what does this have to do with all the products? Matter. Why are you interrupting me when I'm making a point? Shut

13:08Jay Dyerup. I'm

13:10Jay Dyermaking a point.

13:12Jay DyerSo this critique would apply to your own position, you goober. So all of Protestantism is apostate too. Right?

13:21Speaker 1Most of it. All

13:23Jay Dyerof it.

13:23Speaker 1Most of all

13:24Jay Dyerof So you're the last true believer. Good job, dude. We will join Stephen's sect. You made it. You are the true keeper of the true flame. These are the idiots that call in here. Tactical, what's up? Tactical,

13:39Jay Dyerwhat's up?

13:42Speaker 6I'm curious if this guy's ever heard of Hebrews thirteen eighteen.

13:46Speaker 6The church has the authority to bind and lose

13:47Jay DyerHe doesn't care.

13:48Base CatholicSins. I wasn't

13:49Jay DyerI wasn't gonna go anywhere.

13:51Speaker 6Yeah. I have a petition for the emperor of Byxantium.

13:53Jay DyerWhat's up, dog? Important.

13:54Speaker 6Yo. So you once called me gay. Now listen. Listen.

14:00Speaker 6First, I need clarification. Was it homo romantically gay or homoerotically

14:04Speaker 6gay? Because

14:05Jay DyerWell

14:06Jay Dyerdistinction there. I didn't put the pee pee and the poo poo, so there was no touching. So it it doesn't count. It's all good.

14:12Speaker 6Okay. I just need it to be known because there's so many people bullying me now. They're like, the tactical ortho bro, he's gay. Jay said it, the emperor of exanthium, and there's no recovering from that. Yeah.

14:23Jay DyerWell, the simple recovery is to stop being gay and become straight. And you can do that. You can do that by heading over to chalk.com.

14:31Jay DyerUse the promo code j 60 to get 60% off all those great chalk masculinity projects products.

14:38Jay DyerSee, this this goofy man got me all flustered. I can't I can't even I can't even think.

14:43Jay DyerHe calculated billions of bibles have sealed it.

14:46Speaker 1Hey, yo, Jay. Do you know that before 1970 in the sexual revolution, there was no hats in the Orthodox Church?

14:52Jay DyerCorrect.

14:53Speaker 8The bible right there.

14:54Jay DyerRight. And it was sealed. It was signed, sealed, delivered. I'm yours.

14:59Jay DyerWhat song is that?

15:00Speaker 4Signed, sealed, delivered. I'm your

15:04Jay DyerCoco. What's up, Coco Chanel? How you doing, girl?

15:11Jay DyerCoco Chanel, what's up?

15:13Speaker 5Hey. How's it going, Jake? Hey.

15:16Speaker 5I was just I don't understand that furry dude that was

15:20Speaker 5apparently converting back to to Catholicism after Saint Timothy the Studite. I just or Theodore the Studite. I just finished the on holy icons last week. I don't understand how

15:31Speaker 5you could read something like that and then be convinced to go back to the Catholic church. I don't

15:37Jay DyerHe didn't go back. He never was Catholic. So he was a couple years ago, he was Muslim, and then he became Orthodox,

15:44Jay Dyerand then he became

15:46Jay Dyertrue Orthodox, and then he became

15:49Jay DyerOrthodox again, and then he became Roman Catholic within a span of, like, two years. So this is you guys are making the mistake of thinking that this has anything to do with theology. They're just butt buddies. I'm serious. Like, they're literally

16:00Jay Dyerfurry butt buddies as another they're just I think they're just butt buddy grooming. That's all they're doing is hooking up. So there's nothing to do with theology. Leon, what's up?

16:12Jay DyerBy the way, again, we've said for many years that

16:15Jay Dyerwhen you come into orthodoxy, when you immediately start trying to be an apologist as all these people are making the huge mistake, especially when you're really young and you don't know the theology you haven't been formed yet,

16:25Jay DyerThis this is all we there's a wave every every ten years.

16:30Jay DyerWell, within ten years, for example, I've seen three waves of this. So the first converts of 2016, 2017,

16:36Jay Dyerthere was a wave of converts, and then a handful of people

16:40Jay Dyerthink they're apologists, and then they're confronted with material and information and arguments that they'd never heard, and so they get easily swayed. Oh, actually, didn't know about these papal honorifics, and so I guess that proves Vatican one. They don't even know the they don't even know the Roman Catholic positions. So they get swayed into these positions very easily

16:58Jay Dyerbecause they're actually just unstable people. That's why you don't make a new convert immediately a teacher, as Paul says. But every one of these people deem themselves public apologists and teachers without

17:08Jay Dyerany clear episcopal proof approval. They all claimed to have had it, but you see the fruits of it. They're all a bunch of Latinizers, and what have we said all all this time? Latinizing leads you to romanticism,

17:18Jay Dyerso go and have fun, eat from chaff, enjoy your butt buddy cult. So that's exactly what we said would happen. I've seen it since 2016. Back in 2016, it was Gideon Laser.

17:29Jay DyerK? 2018,

17:30Jay Dyerit was Jonathan, the mod of

17:32Jay Dyerpolitics and religion discord.

17:35Jay Dyer2020,

17:36Jay Dyer1920,

17:37Jay Dyerit was Lofton. Same thing.

17:39Jay DyerAnd now all of these people have become and are becoming irrelevant. So they're just moving into their own irrelevance. What's up, Leon?

17:46Jay DyerAnd spiritual delusion

17:48Jay Dyerwith Rome Catholicism. What's up, Leon?

17:51Speaker 9Hey. What's going on? So I have a question. Are we we allowed to ask questions here? It's not just debating.

17:57Jay DyerYeah. I don't care. Yeah. Do whatever you want.

17:59Speaker 9Awesome. Then I have a question. So I've been really, really interested in orthodoxy.

18:04Speaker 9I'm, like, heavily, heavily concerning,

18:07Speaker 9converting. However, I there were still still some things I wanna,

18:10Speaker 9iron out, you know, things I wanna still research.

18:12Speaker 8Sure.

18:13Speaker 5And one of them has

18:13Speaker 9to do with the divorce. A lot of times when I see videos online talking about orthodox viewpoints of divorce, they usually just talk about, well, you can get divorced,

18:22Speaker 9and, you know, they just say, yeah, you can get three to or two

18:25Speaker 1divorced.

18:25Speaker 8That's why

18:25Jay Dyerwe made a whole documentary on this. There's a whole documentary.

18:28Jay DyerIt's such a stupid

18:30Jay Dyergotcha. This is like the last resort that they have. That's why we made an entire documentary over here at Ubih Petra's channel, divorce and remarriage in the church fathers. So you're gonna find out

18:40Jay Dyerthat by the way, Roman Catholic church's position is absolutely hypocritical anyway because they'll grant annulments to anybody. So

18:46Speaker 1Yeah. I'm not a very big fan

18:48Speaker 9of the, annulments.

18:49Speaker 9I I find them to be very

18:52Speaker 9I find them to be very overly complicated and very illogical in many areas. My main specification regarding, divorce or at least the main question that I have is, and I know Catholics have their own thing with annulments on this, but, when Jesus says that, basically,

19:06Speaker 9divorce is the sexual immorality is the only

19:10Speaker 9valid grounds for divorce

19:11Speaker 1Uh-huh.

19:12Speaker 9The way he says that,

19:14Speaker 9When an orthodox gets divorced,

19:17Speaker 9is it acknowledged that they commit the grave sin unlike in Catholicism where there's like, well, no. Actually, you see, it never really was valid to begin with. Is there an acknowledgment that, let's just say, it was for something else?

19:29Jay DyerOrthodox canon law we have ecconomia.

19:32Jay DyerSo we apply the principles of ecconomia

19:34Jay Dyerto all of these situations, and that's why it's not just

19:37Jay Dyersexual immorality. For example, let's say a a wife was married to a husband who repeatedly,

19:44Jay Dyeryou know, s a'd the children. Well, I guess she has to remain married to him because if you know? No. There's other grounds other than just immorality

19:53Jay Dyeror sexual morality. What if he's consistently beating her? What if he's like those are other potential grounds. And so we apply the principle of that if,

20:03Jay Dyeryou know, something like sexual morality is a basis, then it's likely plausible that other things could be the basis as well. So we don't have this legalistic reading of Jesus that the only

20:15Jay Dyermeans

20:16Jay Dyeror the only grounds would be just literally some form of sexual morality.

20:21Jay DyerBecause

20:22Jay Dyeryou can think of all kinds of other situations where I mean, what if he's beating the children to the point of death?

20:28Jay DyerIs that not also a grounds? What if he's

20:31Jay DyerI don't know. I mean, there's a lot of different heinous types of sins that you could come up with

20:36Jay Dyerthat would not be necessarily the fault of one party or the other party. You know, what if my wife becomes some sort of bizarre

20:44Jay Dyerritual,

20:44Jay Dyeryou know, like she becomes a satanist? Well, I guess I have to remain married to her even though she's a satanist. No. And there's all kinds of grounds for

20:53Jay Dyerseparation, and the reasoning of the Orthodox Church is

20:56Jay Dyerit's

20:57Jay Dyerworse off

20:58Jay Dyerto expect the person to live in perfect chastity

21:02Jay Dyerwhen they were cheated on or were left for for no reason at all if they were blameless in the situation. It's worse off for them to fornicate,

21:10Jay Dyerwhich is probably what's gonna happen,

21:12Jay Dyerthan for them to at least find another partner. So the reasoning behind all this is very practical, and it's and it's all super hypocritical anyway because the Roman Catholic church is literally supporting

21:24Jay Dyerthat you can commune after a more's laticia. They're literally saying that you can commune

21:29Jay Dyerdivorced and remarried and and other people now. They'll even commune gay people. Don't give a shit. And they're now having the gay couples blessings.

21:37Jay DyerRight? So not a marriage, but a sacramental,

21:40Jay Dyerquasi sacramental blessing.

21:42Jay DyerSo look at the hypocrisy of this group.

21:45Jay DyerAll of this moral high horse about, oh, you have divorce and remarriage,

21:49Jay DyerAnd they're over here literally having

21:52Jay Dyerdivorced and remarried people take communion now after Francis is a Mors Latitia

21:56Jay Dyerencyclical,

21:57Jay Dyerand they're having Skittles blessings,

22:00Jay Dyerand they commune open Skittles people and open pro abortion politicians. So don't get on your high horse with us when you what you do is 10 times worse, you Roman Catholics. Cleave, what's up, man?

22:16Speaker 1Yo.

22:16Jay DyerHey. What's on your mind?

22:18Speaker 10Hey, man. Yeah. I wanted to pop up

22:19Speaker 5and just chime in on that, man. The,

22:22Speaker 5the annulment situation is absolutely insane. I mean, you go and look at their Canon Law. They can get annulments for literally anything like

22:30Speaker 5Canon, 1095

22:32Speaker 5says, basically, like, if they were if they were mistaken

22:35Speaker 5about their social status of the spouse like, they could be married for, like, fifteen years.

22:40Jay DyerRight.

22:40Speaker 5Oh, I thought I thought this, I thought this chick was more famous than she was. Well,

22:45Speaker 5I guess I was never married all those fifteen years. And what what happens to our kids?

22:49Jay DyerWe Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

22:49Speaker 5Illegitimate. It's insane.

22:51Jay DyerThe other thing they can do too is they could always just say, oh, I didn't actually have the full use of my reasoning.

22:57Jay DyerSo, you know, I was, you know, at the time of

23:00Jay Dyerwhen I was proposed to and agreed,

23:03Jay DyerI was under the influence of, you know, SSRIs, and so it doesn't count. I mean, there's all kinds of like, you know, this is called casuistry. Right? In Roman Catholic canon law, they've had this history and in their tradition because of the legalism

23:15Jay Dyerof all of these legal loopholes, but just like the pharisees, they uphold the letter of the law, the legality of it to try to have a moral one up and to Trump one up and and, you know, morally

23:26Jay Dyerpiety signal over everybody. But in reality, the the situation on the ground is it's everybody knows. The entire world even makes the joke that annulment is Catholic divorce.

23:37Speaker 5Yeah. Exactly. It's it's complete hypocrisy for them to be trying to raise this kind of objection, but they do it all the time. They just don't understand,

23:45Speaker 5well, hey. We actually acknowledge what's actually going on. We say, yeah. It's a sin. You know, we're gonna penance this, we're gonna do a penance for it. You know, you're gonna have to abstain from the Eucharist, but it's not the unforgivable sin. You know what I mean? They just they try to present like it never happened in the Roman Catholic church.

24:02Speaker 5But, I did wanna chime chime in on that PSA and Aladneisser thing. Mhmm. Sure. This is something that we've been calling out for a little while now with,

24:10Speaker 5father Stephen the Young on the show and things like this. We saw this with, Joshua Schupin. That was his big that was his big Another one. Grievance.

24:18Jay DyerRight. You

24:19Speaker 5know? He was saying, oh, you know, I'm gonna be this PSA champion,

24:23Speaker 5teach that the Orthodox Church actually teaches penal substitutionary atonement. But he went around to all the priests, all the bishops. They all told him, no. We don't do this. And when I was a Protestant, he came on my show, and this was what he said in the interview with me. You know, he basically said, oh, this is the this is one of the reasons I I apostatized was because I wanted to push PSA. The Orthodox Church doesn't teach it,

24:44Speaker 5which makes sense if you're gonna go into the church and say and, like let's, like, imagine you're, like, a new catechumen or something. You're one of these Latinized dudes,

24:53Speaker 5and you're looking around. You're like, ugh.

24:55Speaker 5My priest rejects the gospel. All these people around me, they, you know, they reject the gospel. I am the modern Athanasius.

25:01Speaker 5It's just pre less, dude.

25:03Jay DyerIt is. And it reminds me of,

25:06Jay Dyeryou know, the tendency that we've seen or that I've seen again going back to if you go back to 2016, 2017,

25:12Jay Dyerwe had all the exact same patterns with these people. The the way that I know and can predict how these people are gonna act is because interacting with them for a significant amount of time, two, three years, you begin to see the patterns that you notice with the people ten years ago. So ten years ago, when Gideon laser converted,

25:29Jay Dyerhe was, oh, super hardcore trad cat

25:32Jay Dyeror, excuse me, super hard hardcore orthodox.

25:35Jay DyerAnd then he comes across,

25:37Jay Dyerbecause

25:38Jay Dyerhe didn't focus on

25:40Jay Dyergetting orthodox for anema, he comes across all these papal quote minds [mines]Corrected

25:44Jay Dyerwithout the proper context, and then suddenly leaves because he decides, oh, I have to defend Charlemagne as a saint. I have to defend the filioque, all this kind of nonsense, which no nobody actually called you to defend these things anyway. So I don't know why you felt like you had some duty to defend this stuff.

25:59Jay DyerBut this is what happens when you immediately decide you're an apologist,

26:03Jay Dyerand you don't realize that a lot of these issues will get really complex. And when they get complex, you actually need time

26:09Jay Dyerto read and to study it. But it's not just intellectual. It's also you got to be formed. You have to be kind of in the pattern of

26:17Jay Dyerhow to live and think as orthodox. And it takes a long time to get a lot of the Latin baggage out of your head. It took me ten years to get a lot of that out of my head. So,

26:26Jay Dyeryou know, at that time we had Gideon Laser, and and Cleave is right when it comes to the people that there's a handful that will go to to Protestantism.

26:35Jay DyerSo when there was a guy along ten

26:38Jay Dyeryears ago, his name is Andrew Hara, he still makes anti Orthodox videos.

26:42Jay DyerHe used to interact with me back in the day before I became orthodox, and he was I think he became orthodox or he went through the catechumen. Don't remember.

26:49Jay DyerBut for him, what was it? PSA?

26:51Jay DyerHe said, I'm going to make

26:53Jay Dyerthis fit into this scheme. And then when they realized that no bishops and priests who have any real authority, I mean, there might be some random priests here or there, but no clerics or authorities in the Orthodox Church will accept PSA,

27:07Jay Dyerthey realize that, and then they give up their quest to make the Orthodox Church

27:11Jay Dyera Latinizing institution.

27:13Jay DyerAnd they end up going usually Roman Catholic. I think because

27:17Jay Dyerwhen they become Orthodox, they at least see enough of the

27:21Jay Dyerchurch fathers are obviously not Protestant. So the tendency of those people who are hardcore Latinizing PSA,

27:27Jay Dyeroriginal sin, original guilt proponents,

27:30Jay Dyerthey're very wedded to Augustine. The tendency is to go Roman Catholic, although every now and then you'll have a guy who becomes

27:36Jay Dyera Protestant. In the case of Andrew Hara, he went Anglican. And in the case of Shuping I don't know what Shuping what is Shuping? Is he

27:43Speaker 5He's a Lutheran now. He went evangelical first and then became a Lutheran.

27:46Jay DyerOh, interesting.

27:49Jay DyerSo but the tendency is definitely Roman Catholic. And the other thing too, as I was mentioning is it's it's a lot of really young dudes too. Like, so the Jonathan guy who back in twenty seventeen, eighteen, I think he was he might have even been a mod for a little while on our server,

28:02Jay Dyerour Discord server. He went from

28:05Jay Dyersomething Protestant or something to Orthodox. And then six months later, he went to Oriental Orthodox. And then six months later, he went to Roman Catholic,

28:13Jay Dyerall within the span of, like, a year, which is kinda crazy. And it's the same situation with ananda who, unfortunately,

28:19Jay Dyerare

28:20Jay Dyerraised warning signs about ananda

28:22Jay Dyertwo, three years ago because when he came into our Discord, he did the exact same pattern as all the other guys, Immediately debating with all of the mods who've been orthodox for many years, immediately debating with everybody, including me, about what the essence energy sanction is, how I'm wrong about this and that. Like, dude, you just literally just got here. Like, what I've been reading about this for, like, fifteen years. Essence energy stuff. Right? Doing apologetics

28:43Jay Dyerdebate stuff for twenty years. Like, you're not in the position yet. And what happened with Ananda was there was this temptation to

28:50Jay Dyerproclaim that he was a translator.

28:52Jay DyerI have the DMs where he says to me, oh, I'm actually translating for the Orthodox bishop here. There is no way

29:00Jay Dyerin heck that the Orthodox bishop, wherever the heck he's at in England, was asking this goober 20 year old or whatever he is to translate texts for him. And I'm like,

29:10Jay Dyerwhat what

29:12Jay Dyerqualifications

29:13Jay Dyerdo you have? Do you have a degree in linguistics? No.

29:16Jay DyerAnd they were their translations were from AI. Okay. So this is lying. So basically, was lying presenting himself as having this ecclesial authority

29:25Jay Dyerto translate theological

29:27Jay Dyertexts for his bishop. Total nonsense. Total bullcrap. So I knew right away that something's up, something's wrong with this dude because he had just previously been a Shia Muslim

29:37Jay Dyerfor whatever.

29:39Jay DyerI don't know how long he was a Shia Muslim.

29:41Jay DyerAnd then he had the viral video at

29:46Jay DyerSpeaker's Corner where he debated or whoever it was.

29:49Jay DyerAnd then he decides he's orthodox, but the problem was all the red flags are there. It's the same red flags with Sig. Sig's exact same way. Sig is literally out here in recorded conversations comparing

30:00Jay Dyerthe relationship of Jesus or excuse me, Mary and Joseph to homoerotic relationships, and there's nothing inherently wrong with homoerotic relationships as long as you don't touch butts,

30:09Jay Dyeretcetera. Just total nonsense. So all of these people are 100% subversives. We saw the entire time they're subversives. They have their Latinizer discords, which literally

30:17Jay Dyerfunnel people into

30:19Jay DyerPSA,

30:20Jay DyerProtestant, and Roman Catholic versions of PSA.

30:24Jay DyerWhether it's the Eric Ibarra's new

30:27Jay Dyeryou can be Roman Catholic in PSA, like, there's a reason why it's all new converts

30:32Jay Dyerand people that as we warned. We told you guys that this would lead you to Rome and Protestantism.

30:38Jay DyerLo and behold, here's a non converting.

30:40Jay DyerNow,

30:41Jay DyerI don't even think it's all the theology. I actually think these guys are literally just butt buddies. I mean, why are they all into furry shit if they weren't, like, just actually Skittles dudes? So that's really I don't even think it's about theology.

30:53Jay DyerDo you wanna say something, Cleve?

30:55Speaker 5Oh, no, dude. I was gonna I was

30:57Speaker 8gonna agree with you. After he

30:58Speaker 5was defending the the Miko being a furry thing, that that kinda sealed the deal on that for me.

31:03Jay DyerAnd wasn't he a godfather to Miko, supposedly?

31:06Speaker 1I'm not I'm not

31:07Jay Dyersure about that. People were saying that he was gonna be Miko's quote godfather when he converted, which is also very sus.

31:14Jay DyerBut these are dude, this is so silly. Nobody should be listening to people who are 22,

31:18Jay Dyer16, 17

31:19Jay Dyerabout any of this stuff.

31:22Speaker 5Well, the one thing that I wanted to say is you'll see how all these subversive types, they'll team up with the heterodox

31:27Speaker 5quite often.

31:28Jay DyerOh, they love teaming up with Roman Catholics. Their whole discord is literally oh, we would just wanna have a discord that's like everybody.

31:34Jay DyerWell, everybody who's pushing PSA and then pushing people out of Orthodox Church. That's why these people are subversive, and you shouldn't listen to any of them.

31:39Speaker 5Yep. And you got you got God Logic out here attacking the ortho bros and then Sig's buddy buddy with him in this recent show on Shaun Kelley.

31:46Jay DyerYeah. So they're they will team up with anybody, including other anti Orthodox people just to push their pet gay heresy.

31:54Jay DyerThey're all just butt buddies, man. That's all it is. That's what I'm trying to tell you. You guys are thinking that's all all you spergs are thinking this about theology.

32:00Jay DyerIt's not an accident they're defending

32:03Jay Dyerhomoerotic

32:04Jay Dyerrelationships

32:06Jay Dyerand furries.

32:07Jay DyerThey're gay. That's literally what's going on. They're actual

32:10Jay Dyerskittles butt buddies.

32:12Jay DyerThat's why they're doing all this. And they're subversive, and they're they're just garbage people and they lie anyway. Edgar, what's up? I mean, I've got ananda lying. He literally lies in his text messages claiming to be a public,

32:24Jay Dyera bishop approved translator of theological texts.

32:28Jay DyerHe doesn't have any degree in linguistics or he doesn't know languages. How are you gonna be a translator? Don't know languages.

32:34Jay DyerThey're just using AI and lying.

32:36Jay DyerWhat's up, man?

32:39Jay DyerEdgar, I'm mute.

32:42Speaker 1Hello?

32:42Jay DyerYeah. What's up?

32:46Jay DyerDude, can't

32:47Jay Dyereven hear you, man.

32:50Jay DyerNews Nexus, what's up?

32:55Jay DyerThe whole idea that you should listen to 16 year old furries on the Internet for your theology.

33:00Jay DyerI mean,

33:01Jay Dyerdude,

33:02Jay Dyerthat's that's a you problem. That's not a we problem. Noose, what's up?

33:08Speaker 1Hey, OJ. Thanks for having me.

33:11Speaker 1I made a few clips of, god logic speaking about it and, of your stream you did the other day.

33:16Jay DyerMhmm.

33:17Speaker 1And everyone thinks that I'm you, which is pretty hilarious.

33:21Speaker 1And one guy said, oh, but just debate god logic then because you're scared or something. So it's either you're scared

33:27Speaker 1or you just wanna get clicks and

33:29Jay DyerGod logic has declined he's declined three times today.

33:32Speaker 1Oh, well, there we go. But then I said, like, just finally, like, I would love to ask him why he sends Muslims to synagogues.

33:39Speaker 1And the guy answered,

33:41Speaker 1what's wrong with that? He said

33:42Jay Dyerthat Yeah. That's the people don't know anything. Of Christ. Yeah. These people don't know anything. Even say When I said underneath my post as to what the I just did a post today listing the specific

33:51Jay Dyerproblems with God logic,

33:53Jay Dyerand a lot of these goober evangelicals underneath it are like, what's wrong with circumcising people?

33:58Jay DyerI'm like, you don't know what the first heresy in the church was? Judaizing? You never heard of that? Like, this is like it feels like we're going back in time to the Bryce and Gray debate because after the Bryce and Gray debate, there was these just hundreds and thousands of evangelicals

34:14Jay Dyerliterally repeating all the same stuff that I'm hearing the God logic audience repeat. And by the way, notice,

34:20Jay Dyerthis is the God logic they whine about, you don't have the fruits of the spirit.

34:24Jay DyerYou don't have the fruits of the spirit. Well, here's the God logic audience. The God logic audience is literally calling me dog shit today. There there's the fruits of the spirit right there. They're calling me

34:35Jay Dyerother words that I'm not going to repeat on on x I mean, on YouTube. But so notice the fruits of the spirit doesn't apply when they want to attack us.

34:44Jay DyerAgain, yes, this is God logic. I heard people in the comments because this is embarrassing. They're like, I don't actually believe that's God logic. It is. It's his dad's church. Watch. This

34:55Jay Dyeris a 100 this is on one of God Logic's channels. It's on his other small channel where he also promotes his dad's fake bishop church. So what are you even talking about?

35:05Speaker 1Same for the Lutheran, by the way, the debate that you just had.

35:09Jay DyerWell, by the way, that debate shows you that debate shows you where PSA takes you.

35:13Speaker 1Yeah. Exactly.

35:14Speaker 1But the worst part is that none of them actually they're all asking why you're not debating that guy. And I'm like, did you watch the video? And none of them did. And they are just, you know, they're just commenting. That's all they're doing. They don't even wanna listen to

35:26Jay DyerWell, I don't and then the people yeah. GodLogic. And the people underneath GodLogic's

35:30Jay Dyerpost coming at me don't even know why Judaizing is a heresy or why it's a problem. They literally defend circumcising people. I'm like

35:36Speaker 1Yeah. It's insane.

35:37Jay DyerDid you guys literally did you yeah. Thank you. Did you guys just like convert yesterday? I think so. I think a lot of these people are like, do you guys remember back to the Christian Prince stuff? So remember when we had this fallout with Christian Prince

35:50Jay Dyerover him saying, I don't care who Athanasius is. I don't even know what he taught. He doesn't even know who Athanasius is and you're a Christian apologist?

35:59Jay DyerAnd we just saw God logic doesn't know what the Nicene Creed is. Now, all of his followers underneath my post said, you don't have to know it to be saved.

36:07Jay DyerNobody was saying that. If you wanna be a public apologist and you don't know the basic Christian creed,

36:13Jay Dyerthat's insane. That's preposterous.

36:16Jay DyerThat shows that you're not fit. You're not in a position to do this. You don't even have the requisite knowledge, much less the right church.

36:23Jay DyerSo again, we'll rehearse the points where we said. Now, had to throw in his 2 shekels

36:29Jay Dyerbecause he's a total shill fake phony.

36:32Jay DyerIf you fight Islam, all the enemies of the West come to defend and distract you. Talking about me. Because they work with Islam, of course. Yes. Anybody criticizing

36:41Jay Dyerevangelical Zionism works with Islam. Even though I just debated two Muslims,

36:46Jay DyerI'm debating junior tonight,

36:49Jay Dyerbut none of that matters because you're aiding Islam. Now, what's the actual

36:53Jay Dyerrabbinic Zionist teaching? Oh, the West is Edom and it must be destroyed. In fact, Bebe just said it again recently.

37:00Jay DyerHe said the West

37:01Jay Dyeris Edom, and we will not lose again like we did in seventy AD.

37:07Jay DyerAre you not aware of that, Ridvan, as you defend your idiotic Zionist state?

37:13Jay DyerBut it's worse than that because it's not just political

37:18Jay Dyerwhatever.

37:19Jay DyerIt's God logic

37:21Jay Dyeris promoting

37:22Jay Dyermessianic synagogues.

37:24Jay DyerAnd, Cleveland, I wanted to ask you because I don't remember exactly how he worded it. But

37:27Jay Dyerwhen somebody asked

37:29Jay DyerGod logic,

37:31Jay Dyerwho

37:32Jay Dyeris the church the new Israel? How did he phrase it? He had this weird reply. I forgot how he phrased it.

37:37Speaker 5He said he said the church the church is a church in Israel is Israel. That's what he said.

37:44Jay DyerIn other words, no. The church is not the new Israel, even though Paul says in Galatians six sixteen, there it is. And Jesus says in Matthew twenty one forty three, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to the Gentiles.

37:54Jay DyerSo

37:57Jay Dyerin that way, I can say, no, he's actually openly consistently promoting

38:02Jay DyerChristian Zionism and messianic synagogues because again, as we've shown and pointed out a thousand times, what good is it to send Muslims to

38:10Jay Dyera place where they teach Judaizing and teach people to get circumcised? And this this is the sect

38:16Jay Dyerwhere young Don got circumcised. He said it on a video on Derek Mythvisions podcast.

38:21Jay DyerGod logic still promotes his fake bishop dad, who is a TBN, literal TBN prosperity gift grift preacher who does deliverance

38:29Jay DyerPentecostal

38:30Jay Dyerscreaming and yapping and slapping and punching people stuff.

38:34Jay DyerGod logic claims he never pushes any specific church,

38:38Jay Dyerbut he actually pushes messianic synagogues, which is a lie.

38:41Jay DyerYou wouldn't push people to you can't push people to those groups and then say, well, I don't push people to any specific group. I don't take any specific stance. Well, if you say that I'm against all exclusivist claims, that's a specific stance.

38:52Jay DyerSo in other words, you are explicitly ecumenist.

38:56Jay DyerGod logic as an apologist doesn't know the Nicene Creed,

39:00Jay Dyeras we saw in that recent clip when somebody asked him. He doesn't know why there's two creeds and he doesn't even know why it would matter or if why the filioque even matters. He only knows anti Islamianity.

39:10Jay DyerAnd by the way, you might say, oh, but he debated a Mormon. Yeah. But it was the same debate they would have with a Muslim just on is the trinity, you know, three in one.

39:19Jay DyerIs there a unity amongst the Godhead, etcetera, the deed of Christ? So it's still basically a variant of the Muslim debate. That doesn't mean he actually knows anything else about Christianity even if he debated

39:29Jay Dyerbasically, he just debates Unitarians or

39:32Jay DyerMormons.

39:34Jay DyerSo

39:36Jay Dyer90% of the debates are just anti Islamianity.

39:40Jay DyerGod logic

39:41Jay Dyertook all that theology from doctor Beau Branson, myself, and Sam Shamoon,

39:46Jay Dyerand Fearless Truth Nick. So none of that is information that he garnered through his own studies. It's all just what he learned from other people.

39:54Jay DyerAnd according to Sam Chamoun,

39:56Jay Dyerhe reads a lot of Sam's articles and then just asks Sam for help, even still. So this is not he's not doing his own homework. He's just relying on other people.

40:06Jay DyerAnd I'm trying to tell you that you can't do this type of work without having a very consistent,

40:13Jay Dyervery

40:14Jay Dyerlong

40:15Jay Dyerterm pattern of doing the homework and doing the reading. There's no other way to actually know this material and defend the material. And you can't

40:22Jay Dyerdo it through memes and chat GPT and this kind of YouTube videos. This is not possible. So you can't take the triad, the monarchical Trinitarian view

40:31Jay Dyeroutside of essence energy,

40:34Jay Dyeroutside of no filioque,

40:36Jay Dyeroutside of the crystal the Christology that we have, and outside of our sacramentology.

40:41Jay DyerYou can't take it outside of that. It doesn't make sense without the rest of the attendant dogmas that go with it,

40:47Jay Dyerbut that's exactly what God logic does.

40:49Jay DyerThere are no churchless apologists, and you cannot name a single churchless apologist who isn't a heretic in the first millennium of Christianity.

40:58Jay DyerAnd then the most dangerous and devastating of all these, and they all kind of go together,

41:03Jay Dyeris the whole model is actually an online egrift

41:06Jay Dyerbased on just opposing Muslims and never calling out or opposing, say, Christian Zionism or

41:12Jay Dyermessianic Judaizing heresies or

41:15Jay Dyercalling out the Talmud. Of course, the Talmud itself is 10 times worse than what's in the Quran, although the Quran is itself based on Talmudic legends. What's in the Talmud is, of course, 10 times worse than what's in the Quran itself,

41:27Jay Dyerbut

41:29Jay Dyerthey don't ever, ever, ever talk about the the problem of Christian Zionism, the heresy of Christian because a large portion of that audience are just low IQ, boomer slob Christian

41:39Jay Dyerziologicals

41:40Jay Dyerand people who just converted out of Islam who don't know anything.

41:43Jay DyerExactly the same as the Christian Prince audience. So this is a repeat of the Christian Prince

41:48Jay Dyerdrama from four years ago or three years ago.

41:52Jay DyerAnd so thus to them, there is no one true church because it would immediately damage the entire brand of the vast evangelical

42:00Jay Dyerslop convert audience that they've made. So you see how they can't go in that direction. They have to say it has to be ecumenist. They have to not affirm the four marks of the church, one holy Catholic and apostolic in the Nicene Creed. And God logic didn't even know what that was when the guy asked him about the Nicene Creed.

42:18Jay DyerSo that's the problem.

42:20Jay DyerAnd

42:21Jay Dyerit doesn't matter to me how many evangelicals call me names.

42:24Jay DyerThis is the same critique

42:26Jay Dyerof all of these people in this group, whether it's David Wood or whether it's IP or whether it's

42:32Jay Dyerphony baloney,

42:34Jay DyerAnd I still have the same critiques of Sam Shamoon. So I'm not being unfair. I appreciate and and have accepted Sam Shamoon's

42:42Jay Dyerpersonal apologies about the personal issues.

42:45Jay DyerAnd Sam said, can you list for me the specific things that you want me to look at about Vatican one and the Roman Catholic position? So I'm going to send Sam a list,

42:57Jay Dyerand I'm going to operate in good faith that he genuinely is gonna look in those those those recommended

43:04Jay Dyervideos and books.

43:08Jay DyerAnd if if guess what? If GodLogic or David Wood or IP,

43:13Jay Dyerif any of those people I don't trust at all. But if if any of these other people did the exact same thing, we could we could move back to being on friendly terms. If there's an openness to hear,

43:23Jay Dyerhey, why do you think it's a problem that we're doing churchless apologetics? Hey, why do you think that it's a problem to push? I mean, to me it's weird to even ask this question, but, you know, why do you think I'm wrong for pushing people to Judaizing synagogues?

43:37Jay DyerWhy do you think Christian Zionism is wrong? If they wanna move back

43:41Jay Dyerand go back to the friendly open dialogue portion of this, we can. But if they're gonna continue to come out orthodox

43:47Jay Dyerand try to sway people to not become orthodox, which is what began all this nonsense, it's the same stuff Ruslan did.

43:53Jay DyerRuslan did the exact same thing and then try to snake be all snaky weasley about it. Like, oh, no. Bro, that's not what I was doing. It ain't my fault. It's my people who did it.

44:02Jay DyerJust not taking responsibility,

44:05Jay Dyerthen we can do that.

44:06Jay DyerBut, no, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna let up or stop because

44:10Jay Dyerit's this I mean, it's principled for everybody. You understand? We have the exact same principle positions that have not changed

44:17Jay Dyerbasically in the last decade.

44:20Jay DyerThe same problems and critiques that we have right here, it's gonna be the same problems and critiques that we have of

44:26Jay Dyerthe Lutheran guys, right, in principle.

44:29Jay DyerRight? No PSA.

44:31Jay DyerCan't be evangelical orthodox. Doesn't exist. None of this.

44:37Jay DyerSo people are mad because

44:39Jay Dyerwe're not doing the Trent Horn, Gavin Ortlund move of being like, why don't we all just pretend that we're on the same page and be friends?

44:47Jay DyerMeanwhile, they're being snakes behind the scenes. That's what's so frustrating is that you you guys get the public appearance of this fake niceness,

44:54Jay Dyerand in the background, all these people are snakes, dude.

44:58Jay DyerBut guess what? You might not like me, but I'm the same behind the scenes as I am up front. You get the same dude.

45:04Jay DyerThe same mean dude.

45:07Jay DyerIt's not mean though to defend orthodoxy and to prevent people from pushing stupid ass heresies. To push people into messianic synagogues where they get circumcised is exactly what happened to how can you guys not see this? How do you not have any discernment?

45:20Jay DyerThis is why young Don ended up an atheist

45:23Jay Dyeraccording to himself.

45:26Jay DyerGod logic and these goobers

45:27Jay Dyersent him to this dumbass

45:29Jay Dyercholo rabbi's church, fake church,

45:32Jay Dyerwhere they preach

45:34Jay Dyerliteral Judaizing,

45:35Jay Dyerwhere Ruzlan preaches.

45:37Jay DyerThese are part of a evangelical

45:39Jay Dyerpro Zayo network of grifters.

45:43Jay DyerA 100%.

45:45Jay DyerSame with RIDVON. Oh oh, RIDVON is open about it. What are even talking about? They go and kiss the wall, you idiots.

45:54Jay DyerSkydaddy, what's up? By

45:59Jay Dyerthe way, where's, god if god logic is principled, how come he's not calling out the

46:04Jay Dyerevangelical

46:05Jay Dyerzyoslot

46:06Jay Dyerfrom David Wood or from,

46:10Jay Dyerfrom, AP?

46:11Jay DyerYou understand? We have a consistent

46:13Jay Dyerprincipal position even if you disagree with it. But where is, where is he calling that out? Sky Daddy, unmute.

46:21Jay DyerHello?

46:23Jay DyerYo. What's up?

46:25Speaker 8Hey. I watched that,

46:27Speaker 8debate you did recently with the Lutheran

46:30Speaker 8on, modern day debate.

46:32Speaker 11Mhmm.

46:34Speaker 8I just wanted to note,

46:37Speaker 8I you did use the word butt buddy.

46:39Speaker 1Mhmm.

46:40Speaker 8And I wanted to

46:43Speaker 8just call that out because I know that you don't have the fruits of the spirit because

46:48Speaker 8you said the word butt buddy.

46:50Base CatholicRight.

46:52Jay DyerBut but

46:53Jay DyerSo I'm I'm I'm curious. When when GodLogic's

46:56Jay Dyerfan base calls me dog shit, is that the fruits of the spirit?

46:59Speaker 8No. It's irrelevant. We're let's go back to the butt buddy thing.

47:02Jay DyerYou're joking, though. Right? You're not being serious.

47:05Speaker 8No. I'm serious. I'm

47:07Speaker 8joking.

47:07Jay DyerOkay. I thought so.

47:08Speaker 8I just I just wanted to add that.

47:11Jay DyerThat's my new it's it's it's a funny term from the nineties. I love bringing back nineties slang.

47:16Speaker 8But it's funny because those guys, like, can't take a joke like a, you know, kind of a man to man joke that

47:23Jay DyerNo. None of them can. No. Nobody in the apolog nobody in the apologetics sphere for the last decade except for Tim Gordon has been able to take a man to man type of joke.

47:32Speaker 8They have to be performative and be like, oh, look at this and no fruits of the spirit.

47:36Jay DyerLook at his non Christian conduct. Now, when I debate the Lutheran guy, you notice Molinist

47:42Jay Dyerfive or six times called for the exterminating and killing of Orthodox people, and then he has the gall to say that

47:48Speaker 10big deal.

47:49Jay DyerHe has the gall to say that I don't have Christian conduct because I said butt buddy.

47:53Speaker 8Yeah. You said the word butt buddy, so that's worse. I

47:57Speaker 8had some serious questions for later maybe, but

48:00Speaker 8they're they're more like kind of theological stuff, but I'll I'll step out of here for a minute.

48:05Jay DyerSure. Yeah. We'll come back up if you want to.

48:08Jay DyerOr does anybody disagree? Raise your hand if you're in the chat, and I'll bring you up first in line. We got lot of people in the chat. We got almost 20 people. Who disagrees? And I'll bring you up. My argument today is that we're all in a cult,

48:19Jay Dyerand unfortunately, it turns out,

48:21Jay Dyerand

48:23Jay DyerGod Logic are actually in the same cult. What? How is that possible?

48:28Jay DyerAre you just being mean?

48:30Jay DyerHow is that possible?

48:32Jay DyerBecause evangelical

48:33Jay Dyeris

48:35Jay Dyerthe same cult as Islam

48:38Jay Dyerbecause they're both essentially a Talmudic based religion.

48:41Jay DyerThat's exactly what I was saying a minute ago.

48:45Jay DyerWho's up? Raise your hand. Andy, what's up? He disagrees.

48:48Base CatholicI

48:51Base Catholicdon't know when the

48:52Jay Dyerone versus five is going up. It should be coming up pretty soon. I would say probably this week.

48:57Jay DyerThey just told me, like, two weeks, and that was a week and a half ago. So Andy, on mute.

49:04Jay DyerY'all don't know how to work.

49:07Jay DyerThis this is neotone,

49:09Jay Dyerwhat's up?

49:16Jay DyerYou have to have your mic permissions on if you wanna talk.

49:19Speaker 1What's up? Can I speak?

49:21Base CatholicYep.

49:22Speaker 1Nice.

49:23Speaker 1So I'm a Muslim,

49:25Speaker 1Shiite.

49:27Speaker 1My question is why

49:30Speaker 1do you conflict whole Islam with the?

49:33Speaker 1Why what?

49:34Speaker 1Why do you conflict

49:36Speaker 1Islam

49:37Speaker 1with the?

49:38Jay DyerI don't I don't do that. I know you're a neoplatonist. I've debated and argued with Khalil and Donnie plenty of times.

49:45Speaker 1But but but we all know salafism

49:48Speaker 1is the is is the same as a zealot.

49:52Speaker 1Look at Sheikh Hutman and all all of these. Well known.

49:54Jay DyerYeah. I know. They have they basically are pro Israel. Sure. What about it?

49:58Speaker 1Yeah. Exactly. So so what was your take on on the

50:03Speaker 1sectarianism

50:04Speaker 1between the Muslim when the when the the sala fis attack for having a a conversation about the like,

50:11Speaker 5un un

50:12Speaker 1like,

50:13Speaker 1uniting the ummah.

50:16Speaker 1I'm sorry about that in here.

50:18Jay DyerI I don't really to me, it doesn't really matter. Other it's it'd be like when a Roman Catholic has a conversation trying to unite Orthodox and Protestants. I don't I don't really care. What about it?

50:29Speaker 1Okay. No. I was I I I wanted to know if you have been studying like

50:35Speaker 1and sala

50:35Jay Dyerfide. Yes. I I mean, I'm not an expert in Islam, but I'm very familiar with the difference between Shia and the Sunni and a very different I'm very familiar with

50:44Jay Dyerthe ways in which, you know, Wahhabism and sala fide, you know, they want to go back to what they think is the first generation of the early righteous. I've read I've read

50:52Jay Dyerlike hundreds of pages of I've read before I did my first debate with Jake, the Muslim Metaphysician.

50:57Jay DyerNice. Yes. And I have had many conversations with Doctor. Khalil Andani, who's probably your biggest apologist.

51:03Jay DyerSo were we gonna do a debate, and the debate was gonna be Islamic dilemma. And then Doctor. Khalil debated Sam Shamoon

51:10Jay Dyeron

51:12Jay DyerIslamic dilemma, and he got demolished. So there was no point in having the same debate all over again. Box man, what's up?

51:21Jay DyerBut thank you for your call. Box man, what's up?

51:25Speaker 6Hey. I wanted to ask a question about the tiny hats. I didn't know if it was allowed today or what.

51:30Jay DyerI mean, I'm on YouTube, so it depends on what the question is.

51:34Speaker 6So

51:35Speaker 6I couldn't find your video, but I remember reading one where you were talking about how the templars,

51:42Speaker 6like, being monks

51:44Speaker 6and also

51:45Speaker 6warriors, it was, like, not allowed.

51:49Jay DyerYeah. The social the canons of Chalcedon the canons of Chalcedon forbid clerics from having civil posts. It's an excommunicatable

51:56Jay Dyeroffense. In the Gregorian reforms in eleventh century, this is a new papal revolution.

52:03Speaker 6Okay. And my next question was on the allegation

52:06Speaker 6of them

52:08Speaker 6worshiping Bahnsen. What's your opinion? Do you think it's like

52:13Speaker 6or

52:14Speaker 6Adam?

52:16Speaker 6Or

52:17Jay DyerWell, I don't know because

52:19Jay DyerI don't have any opinion really because the Vatican

52:22Jay Dyerin,

52:23Jay DyerI wanna say, the two thousands or early twenty tens issued an official apology to the Templars saying that they thought that that was

52:30Jay Dyermade up and exaggerated.

52:32Jay DyerBut I have the council of the inn and I have the Roman Catholic, you know, ecumenical council's documents. And within the minutes and sessions of the councils, they they do affirm

52:43Jay Dyerthat the Templars were worshipping, you know,

52:46Jay Dyerthe devil or a cat's head or some nonsense. I don't know what it was. But so, basically, that would mean, I guess, that Roman Catholics are admitting that their ecumenical councils got these things wrong.

52:56Speaker 6That's

52:58Speaker 6weird.

52:59Speaker 6So

53:00Speaker 6the other thing the last thing is what exactly do you believe that the wedge

53:06Speaker 6that

53:07Speaker 6the little hats used into the West

53:11Speaker 6to sort of create a Judaizing?

53:14Speaker 6Or or how exactly did they manage to get cabalism

53:18Speaker 6to somehow

53:19Speaker 6infiltrate

53:20Speaker 6Roman Catholics?

53:22Speaker 6And I'm not talking about, like, the the, like, eighteen fifties type of Rothschild stuff. I'm talking about

53:28Jay DyerNo. You go you have to read there's a whole book on this. Michael Hoffman's book, Occult Renaissance Church of Rome is the origin of this, and it actually comes from and

53:38Jay Dyera bunch of these so called Christian Kabbalists. So it's actually the papacy and the Renaissance is behind all that, and that's written by a papist. So you can go read a cult renaissance church of Rome by a Hoffman. It's literally just about that.

53:50Jay DyerWho's next? Who disagrees? Go ahead on line. Raise your hand. Appreciate that. Good questions, by the way. Good questions.

53:55Jay DyerIn the chat, you raise your hand. I'll bring you up first if you disagree.

54:00Jay DyerWho disagrees?

54:03Jay DyerThere's 20 people in line, literally. Who disagrees?

54:08Jay DyerGive me an emoji, dog.

54:13Jay DyerEmojis

54:14Jay Dyerwho disagrees.

54:20Jay DyerStep into the water.

54:22Jay DyerWait out a little bit deeper.

54:24Jay DyerJV, what's up?

54:27Jay DyerI'm a turn into a Baptist deacon if you don't hurry up and come up to the front.

54:32Jay DyerWhat up, dog?

54:33Speaker 8Yo. Can you hear me?

54:34Jay DyerYes, sir.

54:35Speaker 1Why are you running away from Ortlund's cell?

54:39Jay DyerI've explained it about 20 times.

54:42Speaker 1Yeah. You said he doxxed it. What was the proof of that?

54:47Jay DyerThey posted

54:48Jay DyerDMs where he said he was doxxing people.

54:51Speaker 1Okay. Do you know when that post would happen, the first time?

54:54Jay DyerI don't care whether he was doxxed himself or whether he was doxxing another Muslim. Doesn't matter to me if he's doxxing people. I don't give a shit.

55:00Speaker 1So you don't know you don't

55:01Speaker 8know the conscience he's saying? Well, you just he just

55:03Jay DyerI if he's doxxing people, I don't I don't care.

55:07Speaker 1He got doxxed. This is before even yeah.

55:09Jay DyerSo I don't care. I don't care if if he's gonna dox other people, then he's gonna dox Christians, and then that makes me believe You don't wanna that makes me to then that makes me

55:18Speaker 1What was that?

55:19Jay DyerThen that makes me believe Jesus and whatnot that he was involved in that.

55:24Speaker 1Yeah. That that's that's not even that's not

55:26Speaker 8what we're talking about. What are talking about?

55:28Jay DyerHe's in all those same circles, so why would I not think he's not involved in it?

55:32Speaker 1Jesus is the one that was not doxed while I was talking to

55:35Jay DyerNo. I'm saying he's in those same circles, so it's a circle of people that dox people. So what are you talking about?

55:39Speaker 1Even if you don't wanna talk to Ortlund, he's gonna show up

55:41Speaker 8on a sneaker debate. So whether you like it

55:43Speaker 1or not, he's gonna show up.

55:47Jay DyerOh, okay. Well, why change anything. If I've debated

55:49Speaker 1You're gonna debate.

55:50Jay DyerTalked Have I debated all of your top dudes?

55:53Speaker 1Bro, it doesn't matter. What are you talking about?

55:55Speaker 1What do you

55:56Jay Dyermean when why would I be scared of this retard if I debate why would I be scared of him if I debated all your top dudes?

56:03Speaker 1What top dudes are you talking about? I don't know. I I know

56:06Jay Dyerit's I don't even know. Yeah. So you don't know anything. Exactly. You don't know who I have and haven't debated because you're an idiot.

56:12Jay DyerWho's next? Who disagrees? Go that line. Raise your hand.

56:17Jay DyerI've been here debating all the top Muslims for eight, ten years, almost almost a decade. Okay. I'm just going to start saying a basically a decade. Okay?

56:25Jay DyerAnd you can easily go access

56:27Jay Dyerall of these debates on YouTube. I literally just debated two Muslims at debate con.

56:32Jay DyerJake is your smartest debater as far as I can tell.

56:36Jay DyerSo what are you talking about? I'm afraid to debate after a decade of debating you idiots. This is and this is all they have, by the way, is you're afraid. You're afraid. You're you're all run. They did the exact same thing when I did my first Muslim debate. You know what these guys do?

56:50Jay DyerWhen you debate their their big guy ten years ago, they say, oh, you debated Shabir Ali, but you didn't debate the real guy and you're scared of him. Okay. Who's that? Azra Rashid. Okay. So then I debate Azra Rashid. Oh, you're yeah. You you debated him, but you didn't debate the real Muslim apologist because you're scared of him. Okay. Who's that? Daniel Hogicchu. Okay. So then I debate Daniel. Oh, yeah. But you did, but you didn't really debate the real Muslim apologist because you're afraid. Okay. Who's that? Jake, the Muslim metaphysician, the new hottest guy on the scene. Okay. So then I debate Jake.

57:20Jay DyerOh, but you didn't debate the real Muslim because you're afraid of Muslim Lantern. So I go on Snico's channel to debate Muslim lantern and it goes bad for him. Oh, but you didn't debate the real

57:28Jay Dyersee you see this process?

57:34Jay DyerThey've been doing this for a decade. It's the same shit I've heard a million times over. It's so stupid too, by the way.

57:40Jay DyerThe Aussie, what's up?

57:46Jay DyerThe same reason I'm not gonna interact with that dude is the same reason I'm not gonna interact with Corey Mueller or Owen Benjamin. Like, I don't I'm not bound to interact with a bunch of weirdo, psycho, cult fed people. Why would I?

58:00Jay DyerIt's very easy to schedule a debate with me. I've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of debates in the last twenty five or six years.

58:10Jay DyerWhat's up, man? Unmute.

58:13Jay DyerSo you dumbass Muslim countries, you don't even have Internet. You hardly the dial up at your countries doesn't even work.

58:21Jay DyerMacy, what's up?

58:26Jay DyerUnmute.

58:28Jay DyerYou are afraid. You are afraid. You

58:31Jay Dyerare afraid,

58:33Jay Dyersir. You are covered. You are covered.

58:36Speaker 10It's

58:37Speaker 10an honor.

58:38Jay DyerWhat's up?

58:40Speaker 10Hey. I

58:42Speaker 10I

58:42Speaker 10actually started listening to you a year ago,

58:46Speaker 10and,

58:48Speaker 10it it just shifted my vision in orthodoxy,

58:52Speaker 10actually.

58:53Speaker 10I'm not American. Okay? But, I

58:56Speaker 10have a question about the

59:00Speaker 10the this topic about the nickel.

59:02Speaker 1Okay. And

59:03Speaker 10I have other questions. But

59:05Jay DyerGood point. I got I wanna get to other calls. Go ahead. What's what's the question?

59:08Speaker 10Alright. Alright.

59:10Speaker 10It's

59:12Speaker 10and god logic worship a generic god, you think?

59:20Jay DyerI don't think technically god logic because he has

59:24Jay Dyerhe he

59:25Jay Dyerhas the proposition

59:27Jay Dyerthat he's worshiping the monarchical Trinitarian

59:29Jay DyerGod that we have. So I wouldn't say that they technically worship the same God. But

59:34Jay DyerI think that they're a part because God logic is still not orthodox, he's still outside the church, and so he's not properly worshiping. He has the right proposition about God,

59:43Jay Dyerbut he doesn't have the right worship of God. And that's why this is very this is the same problem that we had, which I think highlights your question,

59:50Jay Dyerwhen we were debating the Roman Catholics a year ago when they had their meltdown over whether Christians, Muslims, Jews all worshiped the same, quote, God because it's, quote, monotheism.

1:00:01Jay DyerThis highlights the problem, which is that worship is not as acceptance of mental propositions.

1:00:06Jay DyerOkay? Worship is not just as affirming propositions.

1:00:09Jay DyerWorship

1:00:10Jay Dyeris a specific liturgical action

1:00:13Jay Dyerthat that is culminating in and consummated in the Eucharist, the divine liturgy. So that's why it makes absolutely no sense to say, oh, we're all worshiping the same God. Okay. Well, what is worship?

1:00:24Jay DyerOh, it's just mental notional acceptance of, quote, there is one God.

1:00:28Jay DyerThat's retarded. That's not what worship is. But people are sort of playing word games and assuming that worship is just accepting some list of propositions, which is very

1:00:37Jay DyerTalmudic, very Protestant, and very Muslim.

1:00:41Jay DyerLucy, what's up? Now

1:00:43Jay Dyerlet's look at the history of debates here.

1:00:46Jay DyerSo we've got

1:00:48Jay Dyerone,

1:00:49Jay Dyertwo, three,

1:00:51Jay Dyerfour.

1:00:53Jay DyerWhen you go to my page, the first four debates that you see, except for the atheist debate,

1:01:00Jay Dyerare Muslim debates

1:01:03Jay Dyergoing back seven, eight years. K? Because the Shabir Ali is right here.

1:01:07Jay DyerI did another one before that too. By way, did Paul Williams before that,

1:01:11Jay Dyerand I did

1:01:13Jay Dyernot what's that guy's name? Before

1:01:15Jay Dyerthat.

1:01:17Jay DyerSo there's actually going back to the Paul I think the Paul Williams today is technically the first Muslim debate. Let's see.

1:01:23Jay DyerAnd, of course, he's terrible. Look.

1:01:26Jay DyerBy the way, he was the first time in a debate

1:01:29Jay Dyerwhere somebody just shut down

1:01:32Jay Dyerlike the Lutheran guy did.

1:01:34Jay DyerBut instead of just freezing for thirty, forty seconds, he went to take a what did he call it? A comfort break.

1:01:41Jay DyerHe said, okay, he took a comfort break.

1:01:44Jay DyerAnd this was almost eight years ago. Restructured as.

1:01:49Jay DyerOkay. So the first Muslim debate was a years

1:01:52Jay Dyerago.

1:01:53Jay DyerRight here.

1:01:55Jay DyerSee the exact date. May 5. So

1:01:58Jay Dyerso a little over seven years. So we're almost eight years. Almost eight years.

1:02:04Jay DyerAnd Paul Williams had to take a comfort break.

1:02:07Jay DyerSo

1:02:08Jay DyerI've been here debating the Muslims for forever.

1:02:13Jay DyerAnd these people who the guy he just admitted, I don't know who you are. Don't know anything about you. Oh, okay. So you don't know that I've been here for seven, eight years debating Muslims. Exactly. Exactly as we said. What's up, Lucy?

1:02:24Speaker 1Hey, Jay.

1:02:26Speaker 1What's your take on the Odyssey?

1:02:28Jay DyerI haven't had Thomist yet.

1:02:30Jay DyerI'm I

1:02:32Jay Dyerdon't know. I'm participating in the

1:02:34Jay Dyerboycott of it, though.

1:02:37Jay DyerLet's see. Jay Dyer, Muslim lantern. So remember, we already had this whole scenario with Sneko. Right?

1:02:44Jay DyerWe had the same scenario with Sneko.

1:02:47Jay DyerAnd by the way, I've never even seen Libyan.

1:02:49Jay DyerI've never seen orthodox Muslim even debate. So I don't I have no reason to know if he's good or bad, but I assume they're all bad because I've never heard a good Muslim apologist except Jake's about the only one that's any good left.

1:03:02Jay DyerSo

1:03:04Jay Dyeryou'll notice

1:03:05Jay Dyerand by the way, I'm pretty sure on grumble they took this down

1:03:09Jay Dyerbecause I was looking the other day because it was a huge grumble debate.

1:03:14Jay DyerMe versus Nico and muzzle lantern,

1:03:18Jay Dyerand I couldn't find it. So I don't know if I just could didn't search it right

1:03:23Jay Dyeror what,

1:03:24Jay Dyerbut it didn't look like it was there. Let's see if we can take a look here.

1:03:51Jay DyerSo you can see here's me versus Hikikachu.

1:03:56Jay DyerIt's on here. One one of the I debated him twice or maybe three times, two or three times. I don't remember.

1:04:04Jay DyerBut I'm not seeing

1:04:07Jay Dyermy debate with Muslim Lantern. And you know why? Because when they did a poll,

1:04:12Jay Dyereven with their giant Muslim audience,

1:04:14Jay Dyerit was 60 to 70% in my favor.

1:04:17Jay DyerSo let's try Jay Dyer or Sneko.

1:04:21Jay DyerSo these phony balonies

1:04:25Jay Dyeractually took this debate down because you can't find it, or at least I couldn't find it.

1:04:31Jay DyerSo where is it at? Why would you take it down?

1:04:36Jay DyerBut

1:04:37Jay Dyerthankfully,

1:04:38Jay Dyerand this is why I I would only do it if they would let me dual stream it, it still exists over here on my outlets and my clips channels. So you can watch it here. You can watch it on my channel.

1:04:51Jay DyerThis did not go well for them.

1:04:54Speaker 11Be subject to the bishop.

1:04:55Jay DyerSo

1:04:57Jay Dyerand now let's flash back to then. Guess what the Muslims were saying at that time. You are scared of Muslim Lantern. Muslim Lantern is the great champion. He will then decimate you. He is the the heart he has a heart of a lion. He is the lion of Islam. He will decimate.

1:05:12Jay DyerHe will destroy.

1:05:13Jay DyerAnd this went terrible for him.

1:05:17Jay DyerSo I've already been through this

1:05:20Jay Dyerplay. This doesn't work with me. Like,

1:05:23Jay Dyeryou you guys already do you do this every year where there's the new guy who's, like, the great Muslim that will beat everybody, and then he's just as bad as the other ones.

1:05:31Jay DyerHowling, what's up?

1:05:39Jay DyerHowling.

1:05:43Jay DyerBy the way, this shows how stupid GodLogic's audience is because I've been debating Muslims for years before GodLogic was even on the Internet. What are you talking about? Howling, what's up?

1:05:52Speaker 8Yo, Jay. Thanks for picking up my call.

1:05:54Speaker 8I just had a question for you. It's a little bit of a derailment of the topic, but,

1:05:59Speaker 8I'm an inquirer,

1:06:01Speaker 8and, I found you through Sam Hyde just looking at the credits.

1:06:05Speaker 8And

1:06:06Speaker 8I've just been having some trouble rectifying

1:06:08Speaker 8some of the,

1:06:10Speaker 8well, I guess, piety

1:06:13Speaker 8in orthodoxy.

1:06:14Speaker 8And

1:06:16Speaker 8I don't know. You're gonna probably find a more coherent way

1:06:20Jay Dyerof

1:06:20Jay Dyerrectifying it with what do you mean? Like, what's the problem?

1:06:23Speaker 8Well, I guess it's just more of a conflict in that. There's I mean, you know, it was the joke about the fruits of the spirit earlier. And, you know, it's like, that is actually a legit thing in my head. I'm not talking to you about you necessarily at all. I just mean in general,

1:06:37Speaker 8where I come from, and it's like I'm going into this space now Mhmm. With all of this serious, like, I guess you could say, like,

1:06:44Speaker 8pretty pent up aggression towards things. And I'm like, well, how am I supposed to let all of this

1:06:50Speaker 8just go to be,

1:06:53Speaker 8you know, an orthodox Christian?

1:06:54Jay DyerWhat what are you letting go, though? What do you mean? Against against who or against what?

1:06:59Speaker 8Hatred. Like, hatred towards people.

1:07:01Jay DyerWho who and what? What be specific. What are you talking about?

1:07:05Speaker 8Oh, man. I don't wanna get you TOS. You know? But,

1:07:09Speaker 8you know, I'm trying to figure out a tactful way to put that. But I guess it's,

1:07:14Speaker 8degeneracy.

1:07:15Speaker 8That's a good way to put it.

1:07:16Jay DyerOkay.

1:07:17Speaker 8Yeah.

1:07:18Speaker 8And,

1:07:19Speaker 8you know, there's just so many issues. There's so many problems.

1:07:22Speaker 8And to just say, alright. With humility,

1:07:25Speaker 8I'm just gonna hand that over to God,

1:07:28Speaker 8it doesn't make that problem go away in my head and this, like I mean, it's anger. It's serious anger.

1:07:36Jay DyerWell, I mean, that's part of what we're all we all deal with. So maybe, you know, you're look. Every human being has certain vices that they struggle with. Right? So maybe, you know, anger is one of the vices that you're going to have to struggle with. Right? So

1:07:49Jay Dyerbut I mean, as you get older too, it's also a time thing. I don't know how old you are. You sound like a young guy. I mean, as you get older though, you're going to be able to handle a lot of that better because

1:07:59Jay Dyeryou're going to realize like I'm limited in what I can change and what I can handle.

1:08:03Jay DyerSo there's not really any point in sort of letting rage get the best of me

1:08:10Jay Dyerbecause,

1:08:11Jay Dyeryou know, as time passes, you're going to have a cooler head.

1:08:15Speaker 1Okay.

1:08:15Jay DyerI mean, if you're talking about like political, you know, type stuff like

1:08:20Speaker 8Yeah. Yeah.

1:08:22Speaker 8Yeah. I mean, navigating this current climate

1:08:25Jay DyerYeah.

1:08:25Speaker 8With

1:08:26Speaker 8an orthodox mindset,

1:08:28Speaker 8there is a little bit of a you know, it's a double edged sword because it's

1:08:32Speaker 8you have to swallow so much pride in especially talking to people about things and not casting judgment on them. That's, I guess, where I'm coming from.

1:08:40Jay DyerOkay. Let's be clear here. So that depends on what that means because, like,

1:08:45Jay Dyeryou know, to say that we live in a disgusting degenerate society and there's a bunch of disgusting retards out here running shit, that's not judging people. Like, that's Jesus says not to make

1:08:59Jay Dyerunfair judgments that are hypocritical, but he also says in John seven that you must judge with righteous judgment. So there's a balance here between this fake evangelical attitude of like, you should never judge anyone. Well, when you're an evangelical criticizing me and saying that, you're actually making a judgment call on me. So it's literally impossible to not make judgment calls.

1:09:20Jay DyerSo this is that.

1:09:21Speaker 8It's an innate thing because I was raised evangelical.

1:09:24Jay DyerOkay. That's what it is.

1:09:25Speaker 8Yeah. Programming. I mean,

1:09:26Jay DyerI'm Me too, too. I I mean, I was too. I get it. Yeah.

1:09:29Speaker 8Yeah. I I haven't been in the church in a long time, and this is this is something where it's, you know, it's painfully obvious

1:09:36Speaker 8that this is the path that I need to go down. But there is that

1:09:40Speaker 8battle inside of I mean, I still get in arguments with people and I lash out at them because they're

1:09:47Speaker 8so fucking retarded. And they're so

1:09:50Speaker 8Yeah.

1:09:50Jay DyerJust remember you're dealing with children. Basically, everybody that you're dealing with is a bunch of children.

1:09:55Jay DyerYeah. And it doesn't matter if they're boomers or if they're 20. They're all children. So, yeah, you just think about I'm actually dealing with people who haven't matured in their, like, stages of development.

1:10:06Jay DyerSo but I know it's tough. Wash my hands with them?

1:10:10Jay DyerIt really depends. Like, I I would say if

1:10:13Jay Dyeryou're dealing with people that you feel like have no

1:10:16Speaker 1brother.

1:10:18Speaker 1Gay brother.

1:10:20Speaker 1It's

1:10:21Jay Dyertough, man. Yeah. I mean,

1:10:25Jay Dyerfamily members are probably the toughest, but I would say I I would say there are lines in the sand. I can't tell you the specifics of when you need to draw a line in the sand, but

1:10:35Speaker 8to his wedding. I didn't go to his wedding. You know, my family thinks I'm hateful for that.

1:10:40Jay DyerWell, I mean, was it a gay wedding?

1:10:42Speaker 8Yeah, man.

1:10:42Jay DyerNo. No. You're doing the right thing. Don't worry about it. Yeah. No. You're good. You did the right thing.

1:10:47Speaker 8I appreciate

1:10:47Jay Dyerthat. Yeah, man. No. That's you did the right thing, I appreciate your call. But no. There's definitely, you know

1:10:53Jay Dyerwhat was Obama's red line or whatever? It was a red line. Okay. My wife, Michael, she's she's a beautiful man. Okay. But that that's a red line. That's a red line right there.

1:11:03Jay DyerSo

1:11:07Jay Dyerpeople in the chat are like, that's that's rich coming from you, dire. That's rich.

1:11:13Jay DyerSo,

1:11:14Jay Dyeragain,

1:11:15Jay Dyerit's the right thing at the right time.

1:11:18Jay DyerSo when you're dealing with, like,

1:11:20Jay Dyerlunatics,

1:11:21Jay Dyerpeople like that on the Internet,

1:11:23Jay Dyerno. There's nothing wrong with being sassy back.

1:11:26Jay DyerI got that sassy back.

1:11:29Jay DyerI'm

1:11:32Jay Dyerbringing sassy back.

1:11:36Jay DyerI just heard a Justin Timberlake song this morning, and that's a fellow Memphis,

1:11:40Jay DyerTennessee boy. Y'all know Timberlake is from Tennessee. Right? And I realized Timberlake,

1:11:45Jay Dyerhis beatboxing interludes suck. They're they're so annoying, and I'm not a huge Timberlake. I like one Justin Timberlake song ever.

1:11:52Jay DyerAnd I'm like,

1:11:54Jay Dyerhalf of the songs that come on the radio, he starts beatboxing. I'm like, he sucks, dude. He's not even a good Wigger beatboxer. I got I got better Wigger beatbox skills than him,

1:12:02Jay Dyereven though he's also from Tennessee like me.

1:12:05Jay DyerBut

1:12:06Jay Dyerwe all know who the authentic Tennessee wigger is. It ain't Justin Timberland.

1:12:10Jay DyerIt's your boy.

1:12:13Jay DyerI'm bringing sassy back.

1:12:15Jay DyerI'm

1:12:17Jay Dyerbringing sassy back.

1:12:19Jay DyerIt's like that other caller said, okay, guys know that

1:12:24Jay Dyerguys riff each other. Guys diss each other. Guys do mama jokes. This is what guys do.

1:12:30Jay DyerK? Tristan and I, we have a great relationship.

1:12:33Jay DyerRight? Tristan's a funny, funny dude. He's a smart dude. We've always busted on each other, and it's funny. Same with his sister,

1:12:41Jay DyerChase Haggot.

1:12:43Jay DyerSame situation. We bust on each other. It's funny. We have a great time. I spent, like, four days hanging out with Chase. We had a great time.

1:12:50Jay DyerAnd listen, Chase is the one situation where I would say it's okay to go to a gay wedding.

1:12:54Jay DyerAnd that, you know, that you don't always have to do it. Sometimes, you know, sometimes you gotta do it. But I went to Chase's gay wedding. So sometimes you do it. Sometimes so look. I see I'm I'm doing jokes right here. Now why are Tim Gordon and I still friends?

1:13:08Jay DyerOh, because Tim Gordon can take getting busted on, and we make jokes. See?

1:13:13Jay DyerBut the rest of these people are so soft. I'm talking about the evangelical

1:13:17Jay Dyerand apologist sphere.

1:13:19Jay DyerThey can't even take a joke, dude. What's up, Tristana?

1:13:23Speaker 5Oh, I you already answered the question because I was yeah. I didn't go to an escape wedding. And,

1:13:28Speaker 5but, again, you said it's a personal thing. Like, you didn't draw the line there. I drew the line.

1:13:32Speaker 1So Okay.

1:13:32Jay DyerSo so Tristan drew the line at Chase's gay wedding, but I, you know, I I made a judgment call. It's.

1:13:40Speaker 1And I don't judge you for that.

1:13:42Jay DyerThank you.

1:13:42Speaker 10I know that it makes I

1:13:43Speaker 5know that it makes me morally superior to you,

1:13:45Jay Dyerbut I'm not

1:13:46Speaker 5gonna judge you for being an inferior person.

1:13:48Speaker 5I know that you are inferior.

1:13:50Jay DyerOkay.

1:13:50Speaker 5I don't have to make it

1:13:51Base CatholicI don't judge you for being

1:13:53Speaker 5that for being that way, for being worse than me at everything.

1:13:55Jay DyerThis is the great thing about the orthodox world is that we can just literally affirm

1:14:00Jay Dyerwhat we actually ontologically are.

1:14:03Jay DyerAnd me being

1:14:05Jay Dyermorally ontologically

1:14:07Jay Dyerinferior

1:14:08Jay Dyerto Tristan

1:14:09Jay Dyeras a being

1:14:10Jay Dyeris something that we can accept.

1:14:12Jay DyerBut a lot of churches

1:14:13Speaker 1mean that yeah.

1:14:14Speaker 5And that doesn't mean that you're worth less

1:14:17Speaker 5before God. It's just everyone else you're worth less for.

1:14:20Jay DyerYeah. Exactly. Everybody. Exactly. You see the do you guys see the nuance here? Do you see the nuance?

1:14:25Jay DyerAnd the other religions can't admit this.

1:14:29Jay DyerHey, Jamie.

1:14:31Jay DyerJamie,

1:14:33Jay Dyercould

1:14:33Speaker 4you make me an espresso? Say

1:14:35Speaker 5what?

1:14:37Speaker 5Order me an espresso

1:14:38Base Catholicas well.

1:14:38Jay DyerEspresso? Okay. That's the black terminology. That's the that's the black this espresso. This espresso is dedicated to, god logic. What's up, e Igor?

1:14:49Jay DyerYou are afraid to debate Muslim? Okay. Yeah. Ten year eight years of debating Muslim. You are afraid to debate Muslim.

1:14:55Jay DyerYou must debate the hidden imam,

1:14:57Jay Dyeror you are afraid where is the hidden imam? He is hidden. You must find him, or you are afraid.

1:15:02Jay DyerHe's hidden out in the desert, the hidden imam. But if I don't find him, I'm I'm a I'm a wuss. Igor, I'm mute.

1:15:13Jay DyerIgor, I already made a song about you, dude.

1:15:18Jay DyerDirt, what's up?

1:15:22Jay DyerI

1:15:28Jay Dyerdon't need a ginger chip. I put a little honey in the coffee today because I I thought I thought a little bit of a sugar in the coffee would make me a little, calmer.

1:15:37Jay DyerBut you heard that first guy.

1:15:39Jay DyerHe said there's a billions of Bibles that have sealed

1:15:42Jay Dyerthe errors of orthodoxy.

1:15:43Jay DyerSo dirt on mute.

1:15:47Jay DyerHe couldn't even tell me what calculator he used to calculate the billions.

1:15:52Jay DyerDid you know He

1:15:53Speaker 5didn't even didn't even got a calculator.

1:15:55Jay DyerHe didn't got a calculator. By the way, he tried to argue that it was, you know, from the seventies on. And I'm like, they did you know calculators in the seventies couldn't calculate into the billions? You dummy.

1:16:06Jay DyerYou didn't even know that.

1:16:07Speaker 1Did you,

1:16:08Speaker 5I see there was some kind of van life type influencer that died.

1:16:13Speaker 5Everybody was saying, hey, Jake.

1:16:15Speaker 5People were saying there's some sort of a conspiracy.

1:16:18Speaker 5And,

1:16:19Speaker 5they're like, oh, this guy was about to release

1:16:21Speaker 8all this knowledge and stuff.

1:16:22Speaker 5So I went over and looked at his, his page,

1:16:25Speaker 5and he

1:16:26Speaker 5he was buying he was buying Bibles. Uh-huh. He was like, no.

1:16:29Jay DyerOh, no. I did see that guy. I watched some of his videos, and I've seen him in my feed before. He's a he's a total he's a total lunatic.

1:16:36Jay DyerYeah.

1:16:37Speaker 4It's really

1:16:37Base Catholicsad. You could see that.

1:16:38Speaker 1But all these you have so

1:16:40Speaker 5I mean, I'm seeing, like, normal

1:16:42Speaker 5accounts that are like, oh,

1:16:43Speaker 1they must have took this guy out.

1:16:44Base CatholicAnd you go and

1:16:45Speaker 5look at it, he's buying like, he's like, look. I got this bible. It's the freemason bible.

1:16:49Base CatholicHe's like, look what he said.

1:16:50Jay DyerYeah. So, basically, he's he's

1:16:53Jay Dyerbuying bibles from the eighteen hundreds, and the bibles have the older

1:16:57Jay DyerPalestine map. And he thinks that because the map in the Bible before, you know, 1917

1:17:02Jay Dyerand before 1948,

1:17:04Jay Dyerbecause it says

1:17:04Base CatholicPalestine,

1:17:05Base Catholiche thought

1:17:06Speaker 1just that. He's like, look at

1:17:07Speaker 5these hidden books. Baal the dragon.

1:17:08Jay DyerYeah. Exactly.

1:17:09Jay DyerRight. Yeah.

1:17:11Speaker 1What's up, James?

1:17:12Jay DyerYeah. What's up, man? What's on your mind?

1:17:13Speaker 1You remember me?

1:17:14Speaker 5No. I'm dad lead fan.

1:17:16Jay DyerNo. Sorry.

1:17:17Speaker 5You really don't? Two days ago?

1:17:19Jay DyerI I know that you're a very important person, and I should remember you because you probably I'm sure you refuted me, and I'm conveniently forgetting.

1:17:26Speaker 5Dude, dude. I'm in support of you, man.

1:17:28Jay DyerI don't remind me what you're talking about. I don't know.

1:17:31Speaker 5Leaving the IFP cult.

1:17:33Jay DyerOh, okay. Go ahead. Yeah. My bad.

1:17:36Base CatholicYeah.

1:17:38Jay DyerI thought you were a hater, I was like, I don't because that's they always say shit like that.

1:17:41Speaker 5Like, you know you remember me. You remember me. Like, the way it came off, it's like, oh, no.

1:17:46Speaker 5Love

1:17:47Base Catholicit, bro.

1:17:47Jay DyerHere we go.

1:17:48Speaker 5I fucking I fucking

1:17:48Speaker 1love this guy, bro. I'm your worst nightmare, g a.

1:17:52Jay DyerYou conveniently don't remember me.

1:17:55Speaker 1Yeah.

1:17:56Jay DyerGo ahead.

1:17:58Speaker 5What are so as you know or I don't know if you remember, but two years ago, I came to you asking for help on how to fight the IFB.

1:18:06Jay DyerYes. Remember.

1:18:07Speaker 5Still sadly in.

1:18:09Speaker 5I've

1:18:09Base Catholicgot

1:18:09Speaker 5a couple things written down.

1:18:12Speaker 5Is there anything else you could help me with? Also,

1:18:16Speaker 5can we start calling captain Tazaria captain Paul Sacriarch?

1:18:20Jay DyerWell, I kinda like captain crack rock because it just hit me, you know, improv style in the middle of the debate. But you can call him whatever you want. I will not oppose you if you call him

1:18:28Base Catholicthat.

1:18:29Base CatholicAlrighty. But Can

1:18:30Speaker 8you say it one time?

1:18:31Jay DyerWhat what did you say? Captain?

1:18:34Jay DyerCaptain?

1:18:36Jay DyerPaul. I

1:18:37Jay Dyerlike cat just captain.

1:18:38Jay DyerHow's that?

1:18:39Speaker 1Alright. Yep. That's fine. So

1:18:43Jay Dyeryou wanted yeah. So, basically, what are some resources

1:18:47Jay Dyerfor refuting

1:18:49Jay DyerIFB?

1:18:50Jay DyerWell, first thing I would say is it would be good to get an idea of, like, the history of the canon of scripture. So if you wanna go a little bit deeper than, like, videos, I think

1:19:01Jay DyerI would say get FF Bruce's book, The Canon of Scripture, because he's an evangelical conservative scholar.

1:19:07Jay DyerAnd the book is really good for

1:19:09Jay Dyertracing

1:19:11Jay Dyerthe history of the formation of the canon. And you'll notice that because the IFB cult literally believes like the Muslims that the King James Bible is an eternal book.

1:19:23Jay DyerSo just like the Muslims have the eternal Quran

1:19:26Jay Dyerdoctrine, the Sunnis,

1:19:29Jay Dyerthese people also have an eternal KJV in heaven, right? So it would be very enlightening to understand the history of the formation of the biblical canon, and you get you get a good version of that, not from an orthodox or a Catholic scholar, but from an evangelical scholar

1:19:44Jay Dyerin f f Bruce's book. So that'd be a great one. Also, learning the basics of church history is going to be very useful. So I would say get Yaroslav Pelagian's

1:19:54Jay Dyerhistory of the Christian tradition volume one and two. That's going to cover the first thousand years. You don't really have to get volume three. You can if you want. It's about the reformation. But volumes one and two cover

1:20:04Jay Dyerthe first six hundred years, and then volume two covers

1:20:07Jay DyerByzantium

1:20:08Jay Dyerand the East.

1:20:10Jay DyerSo those two books will be a great start.

1:20:13Jay DyerI also picked up a book that I had many years ago and gave away. Pelagon has a book, Whose Bible Which Tradition?

1:20:20Jay DyerThat would be a shorter, quicker version of what's in the F. F. Bruce book. The F. F. Bruce book is actually better because it's written as an evangelical

1:20:30Jay Dyerkind of describing,

1:20:31Jay Dyeryou know, the history of the biblical canon, whereas Pelagian's

1:20:34Jay Dyerbook is more so a history of textual traditions,

1:20:37Jay Dyerbut still very relevant to this tradition. The reason I'm saying all that is

1:20:41Jay Dyerif the KJV is not an eternal uncreated book

1:20:45Jay Dyerand there's an actual history to the formation of the canon, then the entire IFB cult falls apart. That's why that's really crucial. So I would just pick one issue like that, and then you can sort of undo the entire worldview from that angle.

1:20:58Jay DyerJR, what's up?

1:21:03Jay DyerRemind you guys too, I got a couple new

1:21:08Jay Dyerchoice items,

1:21:10Jay Dyerand this will be relevant for the Tridentine Horn debates.

1:21:14Jay DyerI'm really looking forward to these Tridentine Horn debates. That's gonna be interesting. Now the David Wood debate, I mean,

1:21:19Jay Dyerlook, David Wood just learned about icons

1:21:22Jay Dyerliterally, like, a month ago. So I don't think David Wood's gonna do very well in these debates.

1:21:27Jay DyerBut I forgot that there is a Roman Catholic dogmatic manual,

1:21:31Jay Dyervery similar to Denzinger.

1:21:35Jay DyerIt's the Newner and De Pew version

1:21:37Jay Dyerof Catholic Christian dogma.

1:21:39Jay DyerSo

1:21:41Jay Dyerthe relevant the reason this book is a little better than Denzinger just for overall Roman Catholics is because

1:21:48Jay Dyerthe Newner and Depew version of Christian dogma

1:21:51Jay Dyerhas post Vatican two teachings

1:21:54Jay Dyerin it as well, you see. So if you get Denzinger, you'll notice Denzinger stops at Pius the twelfth. That's why Tridentine's love it. But the Newner and Depew version,

1:22:03Jay Dyerwhich is basically a different type of denzinger, it actually has

1:22:06Jay Dyerall of the papal stuff up to, I think, John Paul the second, because I think this was yeah. This came out in 2001.

1:22:14Jay DyerSo this is a very relevant useful text if you can find it.

1:22:17Jay DyerAgain,

1:22:18Jay Dyerthe these niche Roman Catholic arguments, it really depends on which group you're talking to. Like, if you're talking to a trad cat, they're not going to accept this book. If you're talking to a, you know, Vatican II Novus Ortlund or Roman Catholic like Trent, this would be very useful. Right? So it really depends on the audience as to which text you're going to use, but

1:22:37Jay Dyerback when I was a trad cat, I had this text because I used it to show

1:22:42Jay Dyerhow you have to affirm

1:22:45Jay Dyera lot of these John Paul the second teachings. Right? In other words, why would they be including

1:22:50Jay Dyerall of the John Paul the second normative teaching

1:22:54Jay Dyerif you didn't if you could reject John Paul the second. You see what I'm saying? So it's useful to show,

1:23:00Jay Dyerlike, oh,

1:23:02Jay DyerI'm a be a papal minimalist. No. You can't. Why is there a gigantic Christian dogma book that includes

1:23:09Jay Dyerall of John Paul the second's normative teaching? Not just

1:23:13Jay DyerI mean, it's got like all kinds of stuff about Muslims and Christians and Jews worshiping the same God, all kinds of ecumenism.

1:23:19Jay DyerIt's a very useful text, and so I'm glad to have picked it up

1:23:23Jay Dyerwhen we were at the bookstore in Dallas.

1:23:25Jay DyerI also picked up a really good

1:23:28Jay DyerNorman Geisler, and I'm not a huge fan of Norman Geisler,

1:23:30Jay Dyerbut kind of like William Lane Craig, every now and then these these Protestants can actually put out a decent book.

1:23:36Jay DyerI think Norman Geisler is a terrible, like, he's he's an evidentialist, so his apologetics is very weak.

1:23:43Jay DyerBut this book is pretty good. I'm a good way into it now. It's called Answering Islam by Norman Geisler.

1:23:49Jay DyerSo he's got defective theology, but he's got a pretty good grasp of Islam.

1:23:53Jay DyerAnd if you do want a good critique of Islam, just like William Lane Craig has a decent book here and there. His book on creation ex nihilo is really good,

1:24:00Jay Dyerbut of course, I'm not going recommend anything else from either Geisler or William Lane Craig. What's up, JR?

1:24:08Jay DyerJohn, you wanna unmute?

1:24:12Speaker 5Hey. Remember me?

1:24:13Jay DyerYes, sir. What's up, man?

1:24:16Speaker 1I've been talking for fifteen minutes, but you purposely had me on mute. I was I did a whole argument against Trident.

1:24:23Jay DyerThat's because we're scared of you and we knew that you were gonna refute us. And so in terror, we muted you secretly.

1:24:30Speaker 1No. I I'm not gonna go through the whole thing over again.

1:24:33Jay DyerDid you actually say a bunch of stuff?

1:24:35Jay DyerWhat's that? Did you actually say a bunch of stuff?

1:24:38Jay DyerNo.

1:24:38Speaker 1I no. I didn't know.

1:24:39Jay DyerOh, okay.

1:24:41Jay DyerGo ahead. I was Did did you have some on your mind?

1:24:45Base CatholicAre

1:24:47Base Catholicyou

1:24:47Jay Dyerthere? You're cutting out. Can you hear me?

1:24:51Jay DyerCan you all hear me? Hello? Hello?

1:24:56Speaker 1It it's cutting out. I'm gonna call back.

1:24:58Jay DyerOkay. That's fine. Yeah. Alright.

1:25:01Jay DyerWho disagrees? You go ahead of the line. We're we're looking for disagreers today.

1:25:05Jay DyerDisagreers. Now remember, guys, tonight,

1:25:08Jay DyerI will be debating Junior,

1:25:11Jay Dyeranother one of the

1:25:13Jay Dyerpopular Dawah apologists. Now again, I'm terrified to debate all the Muslims. I'm just super even though I do

1:25:20Jay Dyerconstant Muslim debates, I'm terrified of them.

1:25:24Jay DyerAnd on Josie, the redhead libertarians channel, I'm sure you're familiar,

1:25:30Jay Dyerthis is the replacement debate because I didn't end up debating

1:25:34Jay Dyerlunatic Owen Benjamin. So

1:25:37Jay Dyerbecause Owen Benjamin

1:25:39Jay Dyeris a psycho blasphemer, I decided there was no point in just doing a debate where he literally is just going to blaspheme for for an hour and a half.

1:25:48Jay DyerSo we have decided to do a backup debate. This was Josie's idea to debate junior. I'm sure everybody's seen

1:25:55Jay Dyerjunior on x. This is gonna be super low tier. We all know junior's a goober,

1:26:01Jay Dyerbut it will be fun.

1:26:03Jay DyerThat will be tonight on Josie's

1:26:05Jay Dyerx

1:26:06Jay Dyerand her

1:26:07Jay Dyergrumble,

1:26:08Jay DyerI think.

1:26:10Jay DyerSo

1:26:12Jay Dyernobody tricked me. What are talking about?

1:26:15Jay DyerOh, and Benjamin tricked you. No. I would I would have had a I would have had a debate or a roast session with him.

1:26:21Jay DyerBut then he said, I'm not going to

1:26:24Jay Dyeractually argue. He said, I'm just going to be, you know, ridiculous. He said then to tweet. So I'm like, okay, so you don't want have a debate. You want to have a roast?

1:26:31Jay DyerAnd I was like, let's do a roast.

1:26:33Jay DyerAnd then he's like,

1:26:35Jay Dyernow Jay Dyer doesn't want to debate. He's scared. Well, you said you didn't want to debate the topic. So what do you mean?

1:26:42Jay DyerHow would I run from him when I literally said, I want to do a debate? Then he says he doesn't want to debate the topic. He just wants to be silly.

1:26:49Jay DyerAnd like, if you want to be silly, let's do a

1:26:52Jay DyerAnd then he's like, no, you're running from the debate. I'm like, okay, well then we'll do a debate.

1:26:56Jay DyerHe's like, yeah, but I'm not actually going to debate. I'm going to just like be ridiculous and retarded.

1:27:01Jay DyerThen let's do a roast. No.

1:27:04Jay DyerSo

1:27:06Jay DyerI also don't understand why people don't get that there's

1:27:10Jay Dyereverybody has red lines. Right?

1:27:12Jay DyerThe same reason I'm not gonna debate psycho Corey Mueller is the same reason I'm not gonna debate

1:27:17Jay DyerOrthodox Muslim

1:27:19Jay Dyeror

1:27:21Jay Dyera base Catholic. I'll bring it up in just a second. Is that what's your profile on x? Is it base Catholic?

1:27:28Jay DyerIt's the same reason I'm not gonna debate

1:27:30Jay DyerCorey Mueller, Orthodox Muslim,

1:27:33Jay Dyeror

1:27:34Jay DyerOwen Benjamin.

1:27:36Jay DyerLike, if people wanna have debates, it's very easy. And by the way, I'm the I'm one of the most, like, easy to debate people.

1:27:43Jay DyerLike, it's very easy to set up a debate with me.

1:27:47Base CatholicBut

1:27:49Jay Dyerbecause these,

1:27:51Jay Dyerlike, psychos

1:27:52Jay Dyersomehow get a following, I don't understand how these how Cory Moeller even has a following.

1:27:58Jay DyerIt's some sort of like, to me, like a race based fed cult is what that's my the sense I get. I can't prove that, but that's the vibes I get. My vibes are oftentimes right. We said the same thing about Ananda. Right? I said, Ananda,

1:28:10Jay Dyerbad news, red flags. He's probably gonna go to Rome. What do know today? Announces he's become a Roman Catholic. So

1:28:17Jay DyerI get the same weird vibes, and I've done this shit for long enough that I trust my gut, and my gut's usually right about this stuff.

1:28:25Jay DyerSo

1:28:31Jay DyerWho's next? Where's the Roman Catholic dude at?

1:28:34Jay DyerWhat's your name? Bez Catholic? Where you at?

1:28:39Jay DyerI don't see you on here, dude. You said you want me to bring you up, but I don't see anybody called Bez Catholic.

1:28:48Jay DyerAre you chat? Okay. We'll see if that's you.

1:28:51Jay DyerAre

1:28:52Jay Dyeryou Bayes Catholic? What's up?

1:28:56Speaker 1Hey. I'm not the Roman Catholic.

1:28:59Jay DyerOkay. What's up?

1:29:01Speaker 8No disagreement, so I don't wanna take up too much of your time. Just two quick questions for you. I'm a catechumen in the Orthodox Church.

1:29:08Speaker 8What is the Orthodox stance on limited atonement?

1:29:12Jay DyerYou can't believe in limited atonement. So just go, bro, I'm not trying to be rude, but we're not doing really doing catechumen questions right now. Go look up the I have multiple critiques of reformed theology, so you could look up

1:29:22Jay Dyerthe one I did with Cotel or the one I did with Sam Shammoun.

1:29:25Jay DyerAnd then we get into why you can't believe in limited atonement because of recapitulation.

1:29:30Jay DyerChrist assumed universal human nature,

1:29:33Jay Dyerso that's why you can't do that. But where's the Catholic? I thought he was, like, super eager to come up, and then there's nobody in the chat called base Catholic. How am supposed to know who you are, dude?

1:29:45Jay DyerI'm looking for a profile that might be a Catholic, and I don't see who that would be.

1:29:51Jay DyerDoes anybody disagree? Go to the headline. People that disagree, go to the headline. Arrow, he wants to come up and say something. He's usually got the the recon on the goobers. What's up?

1:30:02Speaker 1I'm up.

1:30:03Jay DyerI'm up. Yes, sir. What's up?

1:30:05Speaker 11Hey. Hey. What's up? What's up? What's up? Hey. So quick quick quick thing. So

1:30:10Speaker 11I kinda want you to debate, more mus okay. So is this one Muslim? You probably know him. His name is Muslim Cowboy. He had this stupid post.

1:30:18Jay DyerYeah. I I I offered to debate him, like, twice. I reached out.

1:30:22Speaker 11Oh, so you already know who he is? Okay. Good. Yeah. And I take it he denied it, Tom.

1:30:27Jay DyerIf I recall, he said he was not interested in a debate at this time. I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

1:30:32Speaker 11That's not true. He has, like, three debates where he's five v one in against God Lodge. That

1:30:36Jay Dyerguy has

1:30:37Speaker 1such a No.

1:30:38Jay DyerThat's not true.

1:30:39Jay DyerYeah. He said something like I mean, I don't remember exactly how he worded it because this is like a month ago. But no, I've I've tweeted out that profile multiple times. By the way, Shamoon said,

1:30:48Jay Dyeryou should debate

1:30:50Jay Dyerthis

1:30:51Jay Dyergirl

1:30:52Jay Dyerbecause I don't know what's going on, but have you noticed they're pushing these girl Muslim apologists, which is bizarre to me.

1:30:58Speaker 11Because they're all coming from one person. They're coming from a guy named Malik, and they're, like, under him. And so now they're getting popular.

1:31:05Jay DyerYeah. But why girls? It's bizarre.

1:31:08Speaker 11Because they're trying to, like, outreach to the men because, you know, it's a coat. So it's like it's a Mouton coat. So it's basically like, hey.

1:31:15Speaker 1If you become Muslim, these are the base women.

1:31:18Jay DyerOh, okay. So you can have a hooded a hooded ninja that you never see if she's pretty or not.

1:31:23Jay DyerSo

1:31:24Speaker 11Yeah. You can get you a free ninja.

1:31:25Speaker 8You get

1:31:25Jay Dyera free ninja because I never see if she looks good or not. So I might get bait and switch, you know, what was it? Is it Rebecca and Leah? One of them is ugly. Yeah. Yeah. So so you get the Laban treatment where you're gonna get the ugly daughter. But so

1:31:39Jay Dyerthis woman is Itachi,

1:31:42Jay DyerDawa Dialogues,

1:31:44Jay Dyerand she said,

1:31:46Jay Dyershe would debate me on Snico's channel. So

1:31:49Speaker 11Did you see Sam one v five her and some other guy's name? No.

1:31:53Jay DyerI

1:31:54Jay Dyerdidn't.

1:31:55Speaker 11It was like they had a debate, like, a couple of years ago. He one v five her and, like, four other Muslims on the end, like, killed all

1:32:02Speaker 5of them at the same time.

1:32:03Jay DyerOkay.

1:32:03Speaker 11So she's, like

1:32:06Speaker 11she's probably gonna be another junior. It's just slap. It's incest.

1:32:09Jay DyerThe same. Yeah. Exactly.

1:32:12Jay DyerAnd the Muslims are all talking smack. It was funny because all these Muslims act like

1:32:16Jay Dyerlike I haven't debated Muslims before. They're all like

1:32:20Jay Dyerthey're like new to this content. And it's like, bro, I've been here doing this for a while, man. I'm not new to the Muslim sphere. What are you talking about? I don't like, we we literally had probably

1:32:31Jay DyerI'm not bragging, but

1:32:33Jay Dyerbecause it was because of Fresh and Fit. We probably had the biggest Christian Muslim debate of the last ten years

1:32:40Jay Dyerwith me and Sam Chamoun versus e Jaws and Hikikachu.

1:32:43Jay DyerSo that had at least 5,000,000 views.

1:32:46Jay DyerSo I don't know what these people are talking about. Like like, I don't like, I haven't been here debating the Muslims. Like, what are you talking about?

1:32:52Speaker 11Yeah. You've been destroying them, but I I think now it's getting to the point because you keep destroying them, they're just gonna, oh, well, you didn't debate this guy.

1:32:58Jay DyerBut that's what they did that's what they've always done. They always say, oh, you didn't debate the real one. Okay. Who's the real one? Oh, it's this guy. And then you debate that guy, and they go, yeah. But you didn't debate the real one.

1:33:07Speaker 11And it's like you had who who do you have under your belt? You had a prominent mon Muslim under your belt. You had Shabir Ali. That's like you can't well, now they don't like him. They say he's a heretic now. But back then and

1:33:18Jay Dyerlike Back then well, so back then, he was the main the main one.

1:33:21Speaker 10Yeah.

1:33:22Jay DyerOkay. And then and then they said,

1:33:24Jay Dyeryou didn't debate the real one. And I was like, who's that? Oh, it's Azra Rashid. He's a shake. So I debated Azra Rashid.

1:33:30Jay DyerOh, that's not good enough. You debate the real one. Okay. Who's that? That's Daniel. Daniel's the top one. Okay. So then I debate Daniel. They're like, oh, yeah. But you didn't debate the real one. Who's that? No. That's Jake now. So it just it just shifts to the to the next guy that they wanna promote. Now they wanna push Libiano, and I'm like, dude, I've I've played this game before. Like, I've seen this game for eight years. This is what you do. And next next is gonna there'll be a dude after when Libby when Libiano crashes out after he doesn't do any good, then there'll be a new guy. Oh, you haven't debated the real who's that? The hidden imam. The one that's hidden out there in the the, you know, Shia deserts of Iran.

1:34:04Jay DyerThat's the real one. Muhammad. You gotta debate Muhammad. Then you gotta debate Muhammad. Exactly. If you don't debate Muhammad

1:34:10Jay Dyerfrom from the dead,

1:34:13Jay Dyerthen

1:34:14Jay Dyeryou are not you're scared. You're not debating the real Muslims.

1:34:18Speaker 11Yes, sir. That's all I wanted to ask about. So Muslim cowboy is lying. He has, like, three debates of him teaming up.

1:34:24Jay DyerYeah. He said yeah. I'm pretty sure

1:34:26Jay Dyerbecause it was a I mean, it was a random tweet maybe a month ago, so I don't remember exactly how he worded it, but he did he did not want to debate. In fact, I can check my DMs to see what exactly I said to him.

1:34:36Jay DyerBut I appreciate that. Alright. We're gonna have to hurry up through these calls because I'm gonna have to go. We got some

1:34:43Jay Dyerwe're doing another recording with

1:34:45Jay Dyerthe Russian pageant

1:34:48Jay Dyertomorrow, so I have to go to Nashville to prepare for that. We're we're on the sixth episode of our

1:34:53Jay Dyerpodcast series. It's a full production series

1:34:57Jay Dyerin Nashville, filming in Nashville

1:35:00Jay Dyerabout

1:35:01Jay Dyerorthodoxy,

1:35:02Jay DyerAmerica, Russia, and civilization.

1:35:05Jay DyerSo we've we've gotten five

1:35:07Jay Dyerepisodes in. We did a whole episode on Freemasonry. We did a whole episode on the enlightenment, classical liberalism.

1:35:16Jay DyerWe did we're gonna do an episode on British Empire and Zionism.

1:35:20Jay DyerWe're gonna do an episode on

1:35:23Jay Dyerjust basically politics

1:35:25Jay Dyeris fake and gay.

1:35:27Jay DyerSo

1:35:28Jay Dyerlast call for today. Who disagrees? You go to headline. If you're a Muslim, you disagree. I'm gonna have to read all these super chats. We got a bunch. Last call goes to a person who disagrees. Raise your hand. You go to headline.

1:35:39Jay DyerWho disagrees?

1:35:41Jay DyerI know out of 17 people, somebody disagrees.

1:35:45Jay DyerWho disagrees? Give me an emoji if you disagree. You go to headline.

1:35:49Jay DyerIt's all here's Bayes Catholic. Here he is.

1:35:53Jay DyerBayes

1:35:54Jay DyerCatholic, what's up?

1:35:59Jay DyerBez Cali, you wanna unmute?

1:36:04Jay DyerYou've been waiting this whole time, dude. Yeah. What's up? Can

1:36:08Speaker 1you hear me?

1:36:08Jay DyerYeah. What's up?

1:36:09Speaker 1Yeah. Sorry.

1:36:11Base CatholicI I was I was hoping to maybe have a conversation about about the filioque with you if you're interested. Okay.

1:36:18Base CatholicYeah.

1:36:19Base CatholicSo so, obviously, I'm a I'm a Thomist because, you know, the whole Catholic thing.

1:36:24Base CatholicAnd I I I take the stance of Gary Gulagrange.

1:36:28Base CatholicObviously, I believe you can't distinguish the persons without the filioque,

1:36:32Base Catholicsun and spirit, but I I wanted to take a Okay. Slightly different approach.

1:36:35Jay DyerWell, did did the Cappadocian

1:36:37Jay Dyercan you tell me how the Cappadocians distinguish the persons?

1:36:41Base CatholicYeah. Well, we have some to talk about relative opposition. We can get into that.

1:36:45Jay DyerThat's not my main argument. We can talk That's not what I argued. Relations

1:36:50Jay Dyerof opposition

1:36:51Jay Dyeris not relative opposition. They're two different things.

1:36:56Base CatholicYeah. Yeah. And, again, we we we can get into that maybe later if you want. But but right now, I I just wanted to to run an argument by you

1:37:01Jay Dyerand share

1:37:01Speaker 1your thoughts

1:37:02Jay Dyeron Can I ask you before you run your argument? Do you agree with Aquinas and sumacantrogentelase

1:37:06Jay Dyerthat he seems to speak as if the essence also generates and spirotes?

1:37:12Base CatholicYeah. No. I I agree that that the essence is the principle by which I would say it's it's the principium qua remoteum, but I I wouldn't say that the essence is the principium qua as in as in the the father and the son.

1:37:24Jay DyerOkay. How about let's just talk about the theophanes because that's more relevant. Do you think that theophanes are creatures?

1:37:31Base CatholicWell, I I would just I I just wanna run my argument by it real quick.

1:37:33Jay DyerWell, are the theophanes creatures, though? Because this is a kill shot for Thomism.

1:37:38Base CatholicYeah. Well, I mean, I'm not too well versed in that. I just wanted to run an run an argument. It's similar. It's it's pretty basic Thomistic argument. It's not really like I just wanted to hear your thoughts on it really. I don't we don't need to, like, go back and forth to

1:37:50Jay DyerOh, so you don't wanna talk about the actual kill shot for Thomism?

1:37:54Jay DyerBecause I I don't I think it's a disservice to I think it's a disservice to give the impression that you guys actually have this like high tiered way to account for

1:38:02Jay Dyerthis and that

1:38:04Jay Dyerwhen

1:38:05Jay Dyeryour whole position falls apart if you don't believe that God can be in space and time.

1:38:11Base CatholicYeah. And again, like, we we could totally debate Theophanes. I could come on a different live. But I just had a specific argument I was hoping to to ask you about. Like, and and if you if you wanna say, hey. That's a stupid argument. That's totally cool. I just kinda wanted to hear your thoughts on it.

1:38:23Jay DyerWell, I'll you what. I'll answer your question. I will answer your question that you run when you answer if you answer some of mine as well.

1:38:30Base CatholicYeah. Okay. Sure. We we can we can totally do

1:38:32Jay Dyerthat. Okay.

1:38:34Base CatholicSo are the Theophanes creatures?

1:38:36Jay DyerIs this the affiliate argument?

1:38:39Base CatholicOh, you you want me to run my by

1:38:41Jay DyerYeah. You can go ahead first. Yours? You can go ahead first.

1:38:43Base CatholicYeah. Okay. So we we would say that the father, obviously, being the the monarch of the trinity Mhmm.

1:38:50Base CatholicHe is the first person, and then there's the son who is the second person.

1:38:54Jay DyerRight.

1:38:54Base CatholicThe spirit is is a third person. This is obviously,

1:38:57Base Catholicas we we both agree, according to order of nature, not some weird temporal Arian crap. Mhmm. But then we would say that the, in

1:39:06Base Catholicwhich the the sun is begotten would be the divine essence itself. Mhmm. And we know that because what is being communicated

1:39:12Jay DyerDo you actually know Latin? Do you actually know Latin?

1:39:16Base CatholicI I I wouldn't say I'm

1:39:17Jay Dyerfluent in Latin. Terms that I Okay. So why are you trying to quote a bunch of Latin as if you know Latin? It just comes off as pretentious and fake.

1:39:25Base CatholicYeah. Not trying to be pretentious. I was I was just that's just the typical terms that are used. Like, I can say it

1:39:30Jay Dyerin English No. It's the typical terms that are used for people that know Latin, and you don't know Latin. So you're doing it to give the impression that you're a scholar.

1:39:37Jay DyerDo you have a language degree?

1:39:39Speaker 1No. I wasn't going to be

1:39:41Jay Dyera scholar.

1:39:41Base CatholicIt's just that that's just how I've heard it referenced. The people I've talked to, they they reference it that way. Can speak all in English if you would like.

1:39:48Jay DyerGo ahead and make your argument.

1:39:50Base CatholicYeah. Do you want me to do do you want

1:39:51Jay Dyerme Just make the argument.

1:39:53Base CatholicOkay. Yeah. So the principium corruimatum,

1:39:56Base Catholicwhich would be the divine essence,

1:39:59Base Catholicis we we know that it's the divine essence because that's what's being communicated to the son. The father is not communicating paternity, but rather he's communicating divinity to the son.

1:40:07Jay DyerAnd he's also generating he's also generating the hypostasis of the son too. Right?

1:40:13Base CatholicSure. But when he

1:40:17Base Catholicbegets the son, what is being communicated is the divine essence.

1:40:20Base CatholicAnd at this time, obviously, using temporal language to describe the Trinity because that's the best way to do it Mhmm. The spirit is not, being spirated yet according to the order of nature. And so that would mean that in the divine essence, in the divine nature, the we

1:40:36Base Catholicstill have spiration.

1:40:38Base CatholicAnd so if we're to say that the son does not receive spiration when the divine essence is communicated to him, he is not receiving the fullness of what is in the divine nature. And so that would mean that he is in

1:40:49Jay Dyersome Okay. So does the holy so then does the holy spirit receive spiration as well because he has a fullness of divine nature?

1:40:56Base CatholicYeah. So that's where the distinction between

1:41:00Base Catholicfor people who don't speak Latin

1:41:01Jay DyerWhere is that? Where is that? Is that okay.

1:41:04Jay DyerWho made this distinction before Thomas Aquinas or the Latin church? Where is that in the Cappadocians?

1:41:10Jay DyerAgain, Does it exist? Does it exist? Okay.

1:41:13Base CatholicJust a logical distinction.

1:41:14Jay DyerNo. It's it's a distinction no. It's a distinction invented to protect and defend your model, so I'm asking if it existed prior to the Middle Ages.

1:41:24Base CatholicYeah. I don't think I could give you a specific So

1:41:26Jay Dyerso you don't know?

1:41:27Base CatholicWell

1:41:28Base Catholicwell, yeah, would say sure. I don't know. I'm willing to admit that. But you have to let me at least explain the distinction first before you just say, hey. You know, we we

1:41:34Jay Dyercan't No. You're but you're coming up with a distinction to where it gives the impression that

1:41:39Jay Dyerfor the son to have full divinity,

1:41:42Jay Dyerrequires that he has the ability to spirate. And now when I say,

1:41:46Jay Dyerokay, well then does the holy spirit also generate and spirate? Your answer is, oh, well, you see there's this distinction.

1:41:53Base CatholicWell, no. It's it's the same reason that the son doesn't beget another son. That's the only distinction that I was gonna make is because the principium voproxemum

1:42:00Base Catholicterminates

1:42:01Base Catholicwithin the person of the sun.

1:42:03Jay DyerOkay. So it says who? Where where does this where does that come from?

1:42:07Speaker 8What what do you

1:42:08Base Catholicmean where does it come from?

1:42:09Jay DyerJust asserted that. Where where do you get that from?

1:42:12Base CatholicBecause the son doesn't beget more sons. You would agree with that.

1:42:15Jay DyerWhy not? You're just asserting the position. I'm saying, why couldn't he? Why am I supposed to assume that dogmatic assertion is true? This is what Thomist do. You guys just assert shit.

1:42:25Jay DyerThis is Why are you laughing?

1:42:26Base CatholicYou would agree. Yeah. Because I'm

1:42:28Jay DyerIt doesn't matter whether I agree. It doesn't matter. I'm asking your position.

1:42:32Speaker 1Are you gonna know

1:42:32Base Catholicthis is how how we logically conclude

1:42:34Jay DyerWhy should I accept that that's the logical conclusion without you just asserting it?

1:42:39Base CatholicBecause we're

1:42:40Jay Dyerboth Trinitarian. It doesn't matter what my position is. That's a fallacy. My position has nothing to it's it's irrelevant to what you're arguing. Why are you caught talking about my position when you're arguing your Thomas position? So what so what if my position agrees or disagrees? It's irrelevant to the argument you're making.

1:42:55Speaker 1So you you let me

1:42:56Base Catholicjust clarify. You want me

1:42:57Jay Dyerto How does it terminate and why? Why am I supposed to accept that assertion? That's what I'm saying. You Thomist

1:43:02Base CatholicBecause because it's the object of the divine

1:43:06Base Catholicaction that's being completed.

1:43:08Jay DyerOkay. So more Thomism. So more Thomism.

1:43:11Jay DyerWhy am I supposed to accept the Thomist? Why am I supposed to accept the why

1:43:14Jay Dyeram I sup you're you're

1:43:16Jay Dyernot giving me the reason why you're asserting the position again. Why am I supposed to accept that

1:43:22Jay Dyerthis Thomist model is the right model for answering this question?

1:43:27Base CatholicYes. I was I was about to explain that and then and would you would you let

1:43:31Speaker 1me just finish the the point?

1:43:33Jay DyerYou have to answer the question and not give me the assertion again. No. You're not. Again, you guys don't understand epistemology.

1:43:39Jay DyerYou think that just asserting positions is giving me the reason why I ought to accept the Thomist dogma. Why?

1:43:46Base CatholicWell, no. Obviously, we we have the same epistemology. So

1:43:49Jay Dyerwe No. We don't. What are you talking about? We do absolutely do not.

1:43:53Base CatholicWe have we have

1:43:54Jay Dyerthe fathers in church. We can bond No. People and I do not. I've I've spent ten years arguing against your epistemology. We do not have the same epistemology. You have a classical foundationalist model of epistemology. I do not. That's why I debated Trent Horn against natural theology. I reject your whole system and paradigm.

1:44:10Base CatholicOkay. K. How about how about you just you let me say the the point that I'm trying to make, and then you can tell me afterwards.

1:44:16Jay DyerNo. Because you can keep yapping and filibustering and not answering the question. I'm asking you an epistemic question. Why should I accept the Thomistic account

1:44:25Jay Dyerof that question when I don't accept Thomism? And you said, well, you have the same type of position and same epistemology. No. I don't. So those are not acceptable answers.

1:44:34Base CatholicI can I can

1:44:35Jay Dyeryou answer the question why I ought to accept the Thomistic metaphysical dogmas that you push?

1:44:40Jay DyerWe we can Why? If you want. I'm just trying to Why playing the position. No.

1:44:45Jay DyerYou're not. You are not no. You were answering my objection

1:44:49Jay Dyerby just stating the Thomas position. So now it shifts into an epistemic question of why ought I accept the Thomas position and model.

1:44:57Base CatholicOkay. We let let me

1:44:58Jay DyerLet's do that. Let's do that because that that's where it goes.

1:45:01Base CatholicExtend let let me extend all of it. We can use just Cappadocian

1:45:05Base Catholicfathers.

1:45:06Base CatholicK? Or we can just I don't think

1:45:07Jay Dyeryou have the right interpretation of the Cappadocians. Let's go to the so the debate has shifted to the

1:45:12Jay Dyerto the Cappadocian of so I

1:45:16Jay Dyerdon't believe you interpret them correctly. I believe in paradigms.

1:45:18Base CatholicI haven't given you my interpretation.

1:45:19Jay DyerYou don't understand you didn't give any interpretation of the Cappadocians.

1:45:22Speaker 8What are

1:45:23Speaker 1you talking about?

1:45:24Base CatholicYeah. So then why are you saying I don't interpret them correctly if I haven't given you an interpretation?

1:45:27Jay DyerInterpretation? Because you're an evidentialist, and I'm not gonna give you evidential lines of argumentation when I'm asking you a paradigm level question.

1:45:34Base CatholicSo I wait. Let me let me just clarify. I'm not allowed to use natural logic, and I'm not allowed

1:45:38Jay Dyerto I don't accept those positions. Why would you well, I'm not a natural theology proponent or a classical foundationalist.

1:45:45Base CatholicBut I'm not allowed to talk about fathers either because you don't accept

1:45:47Jay Dyerthe interpretation? You don't understand the allowance. I don't care what can you can refer to all the things you want to. I'm just gonna keep calling it out as to why it's a non sequitur and I don't accept that as an argument.

1:45:58Base CatholicSo you don't accept the the early church fathers that we both

1:46:02Jay DyerI don't accept your interpretation.

1:46:04Jay DyerI don't believe that they're theory neutral.

1:46:07Base CatholicI haven't given you an interpretation yet. How do you know you disagree with

1:46:10Jay DyerI I don't accept the Thomist reading of the Cappadocians because I've dealt with it before.

1:46:17Jay DyerThe question then goes to a so the question moves to a paradigm level question of epistemology and models. So why am I supposed to accept your model of theory neutral epistemology

1:46:28Jay Dyerclassical foundationalism?

1:46:30Base CatholicOkay. Jay, pretend I never told you I'm a Thomist. Let's just

1:46:33Jay Dyerhave a conversation I

1:46:35Jay Dyerdebate paradigms. Do you not understand this? And no, you don't because you're a Thomist. Do you understand you can't and don't debate paradigms?

1:46:42Base CatholicYeah. Jay, I'm not hearing

1:46:44Jay DyerStop saying my name.

1:46:45Jay DyerAm moving the debate to that because it gets to that because I don't accept your interpretation of the Cappadocians.

1:46:52Base CatholicSo you couldn't repeat my points now? Just you literally said you moved.

1:46:55Jay DyerDo you understand

1:46:56Jay Dyerwhen it when it comes to a question about this is the exact same debate I had with Arrow four years ago or not Arrow, whatever

1:47:04Jay Dyerthe Thomist guy's name. It's the exact same debate where you want me to accept a bunch of metaphysical

1:47:10Jay Dyergivens and assertions

1:47:11Jay Dyerin the Thomistic scheme, and I don't because I have a different paradigm.

1:47:15Jay DyerSo the question moves, the debate moves to the ep epistemic level.

1:47:21Base CatholicWell, okay. I I agree that that if you want to move it to the epistemic level, that's something you can do.

1:47:26Jay DyerThe debate moves there. It's not me wanting to because I'm telling you, I have totally different paradigm for how I read the Cappadocians and I don't accept your self evident

1:47:36Jay DyerThomistic Aristotelian metaphysics.

1:47:38Jay DyerAnd you keep you can't prove those things.

1:47:40Base CatholicJay, let me ask you.

1:47:41Jay DyerWhy do you keep repeating my name?

1:47:44Base CatholicI I didn't. I just asked you by

1:47:45Jay Dyersaying No. You keep repeating my name. Jay. Jay. Jay. Jay. Jay. Jay. Jay.

1:47:49Base CatholicI apologize. I apologize.

1:48:07Jay DyerThe question is we read them from different paradigms. Do you think that they're self evident truths, self evident, self interpreting texts?

1:48:15Base CatholicNo. Not always. I think that there are some that are that are obviously very clear, but I I'm just asking.

1:48:20Jay DyerOkay. Is a question though. Epistemic absurdity. If if you It's not epistemic absurdity. It's

1:48:25Jay Dyerokay. So if it's epistemic absurdity, you should be able to easily refute my challenges.

1:48:30Base CatholicNo. Because everyone can be broken down to epistemic absurdity. That's the the sophistry that you're trying to impose

1:48:35Jay Dyeron fathers. Like,

1:48:37Base CatholicNo. We both agree

1:48:38Jay Dyeron the fathers. You won't even No. Be We don't agree on the fathers. That's what I'm telling you. We do not agree on the fathers. We agree on who they are, not how to read them.

1:48:47Base CatholicOkay. You can tell me that I'm reading them wrong, but you have to let me read you a quote first.

1:48:51Jay DyerIt doesn't matter because I don't accept your reading of them. It it literally doesn't matter. I'm not a Thomist, and I'm not gonna read the I'm not gonna read the Cappadocians in a Thomist lens like you guys do.

1:49:02Base CatholicSo you're not gonna give me an interpretation or you're just gonna say

1:49:05Jay DyerI'm gonna say I'm

1:49:06Jay Dyergonna say very simply that

1:49:08Jay Dyeryou believe that there's nothing in the intellect that's not first in the senses because that's the peripatetic axiom. And I'm gonna just ask you to explain to me why I'm supposed to accept that when the peripatetic axiom itself is not in the sense data. Because that's the beginning point of your whole system.

1:49:24Base CatholicThey may they

1:49:27Base Catholicdidn't mean to say your name. Didn't mean to say your name. You can run back to, you know, saying, oh, I just don't accept your epistemology. Therefore, your

1:49:34Jay Dyerpoints No. You don't understand paradigms. I've spent twenty years no. I know how debate works. You don't know how debate works.

1:49:39Base CatholicCongratulations.

1:49:40Base CatholicI I mean, that's awesome that you spent twenty years doing this, but I want you to actually address any of the points that I'm bringing forth.

1:49:45Jay DyerMy challenges to you are at a paradigm level, so you're operating just like an atheist who wants to debate things that are not at the paradigm level. So you can keep yapping about how you read the Cappadocians.

1:49:55Jay DyerWhy is that funny?

1:49:57Base CatholicBecause, Jay, you haven't answered any of my points. You you interrupt

1:50:00Jay DyerBecause my challenge is not at the level that you're arguing. It's at a presuppositional level.

1:50:06Base CatholicJay, when I came up here, you agreed to have conversation about the filioque. And then

1:50:11Jay Dyerit turned into a paradigm level interpretive

1:50:13Jay Dyerdebate.

1:50:15Base CatholicIt didn't turn into that.

1:50:16Jay DyerIt did because that's the questions that's

1:50:18Jay Dyerthe questions I'm asking you so you can either address those or just ignore them.

1:50:23Base CatholicOkay. So, Jay, it's

1:50:24Jay DyerI got it. It's not that. I got I it. It. I got it. I I I did it again. No. You're you're actually just doing it because you think it's funny. It's it's not bothering me. It just makes you look like you're silly, like, say my name. It's weird. It's like it's like neurolinguistic programming or whatever.

1:50:39Base CatholicMaybe I'm just a little nervous. I don't know, man.

1:50:41Jay DyerIt's Sure. I'll bet you are. So Yeah. Again, you understand that my approach is paradigm apologetics.

1:50:49Jay DyerThat's my whole thing. That's what I do. Now, you can address that type of stuff

1:50:53Jay Dyeror not. I don't care what you do because I left your system a long time ago because it's retarded and thinking gay. So you can either address my line of argumentation or you can just keep yapping at something that's irrelevant to what I'm arguing.

1:51:05Base CatholicOkay. How about you tell me your paradigm, and I will argue from that?

1:51:09Jay DyerYeah. So I don't accept the peripatetic axiom.

1:51:14Jay DyerOkay. So that's Thomism one zero one. Now tell me why I'm supposed to accept it.

1:51:20Base CatholicWell, now I don't

1:51:21Jay Dyerhave to prove Do you know what the do you know what the parapathetic do you know what it is?

1:51:25Base CatholicIs it basically like nothing in intellect is is not first in the senses?

1:51:29Jay DyerYeah. So that's the beginning point of your whole system in terms of epistemology, in terms of how you know things, how you reason about the world. So tell me make sense of that. If the peripathetic axiom itself is not insensitive, then it's self refuting.

1:51:41Base CatholicYeah. Yeah. Okay. Sure. It's self refuting. Thomism is wrong, but can we talk about the filioque equation?

1:51:45Jay DyerNo. Because that's your paradigm from which you read the Cappadocians, you goober. So you admit your par so you just admitted that your so you admit your paradigm is wrong?

1:51:54Base CatholicYeah. Sure.

1:51:55Jay DyerToss it out. Okay. Well, then then Thomist is false. Then why would I argue with somebody who you just admitted your paradigm is a lot wrong. Why would I argue with you if your paradigm's wrong?

1:52:03Base CatholicI've adopted I've adopted the Jay Dyer paradigm. I'll I'll argue from whatever standpoint you want, from whatever paradigm you want. I just wanna have a conversation about the filioque.

1:52:12Jay DyerFilioque.

1:52:13Jay DyerYour paradigm. I don't accept

1:52:15Jay Dyerarguments about is it let's say if I was debating let me explain why I don't do this. The reason I don't do this is because if I'm debating an atheist

1:52:23Jay Dyerand they throw a bunch of quote facts at me and a bunch of quote data at me and their interpretation

1:52:29Jay Dyerof this or that fact,

1:52:31Jay Dyerit's an unfruitful debate and exercise because the real

1:52:36Jay Dyerpoint of contention is not the interpretation of this or that text or this or that data.

1:52:40Jay DyerJust like it's not a question of interpreting this or that church father. It doesn't really is irrelevant if we have completely different paradigms

1:52:47Jay Dyerfrom the starting point. And the fact that we have common church fathers has nothing to do with whether we have the same paradigms.

1:52:53Jay DyerRight? Because I read them from a totally different vantage point than a Thomist lens,

1:52:58Jay Dyerjust like Dionysius.

1:53:00Jay DyerOrthodox read Dionysius from a very different lens than the Thomistic lens of reading Dionysius.

1:53:06Jay DyerSo why am I gonna you can't solve this debate by just citing Dionysius.

1:53:10Jay DyerWhen I debated Eric Gabara, I made the same point. We have two totally different paradigms. And Eric says, why don't you just let me stack up all the paper quotes?

1:53:19Jay DyerBecause I have a paradigm level argument. And if I have one contradiction,

1:53:22Jay Dyerthat negates all of your paper quote minds [mines]. They're all canceled out. That's the strength of a kill shot paradigm level argument. That's what I do. So you can either address that, or we can just keep talking past each other.Corrected

1:53:33Base CatholicSo so, Jay, just to clarify,

1:53:36Base CatholicI can't quote the fathers on the filioque because

1:53:39Jay DyerGood god. This did have you ever heard me debate a you're literally arguing the way an atheist does. So you won't listen to the science facts. You won't listen to the science facts. You don't believe the science.

1:53:49Jay DyerIt's the same argument.

1:53:53Base CatholicWell, I I I understand that you you wanna take this down to the paradigm level. I understand

1:53:57Jay Dyerthat Because in the discussion, it already got to that. That's what I'm saying.

1:54:01Base CatholicBut I'm already saying for the sake of this conversation, I am granting your exact worldview. Whatever you want it to be, I will grant that. Well, obviously, I still want

1:54:09Jay DyerIf you grant my worldview, then why would I accept the debate with a worldview that you admit doesn't work?

1:54:18Base CatholicI'm not again

1:54:19Jay DyerIs your worldview built on foundations? I mean, does it have the foundation of being built on the parapodetic axiom? If if you can't give me if you can't justify your first granted you.

1:54:28Base CatholicI already told you for the sake

1:54:29Jay Dyerof conversation. If you can't grant first well,

1:54:32Jay Dyerso you you can't defend your first principles?

1:54:36Base CatholicAgain, I already said

1:54:37Jay DyerCan you def for the sake of Well, so why would you grant that? Why would you grant that if you're

1:54:43Jay DyerDude, are you stupid? Why would you grant that if your argument is built on that?

1:54:47Base CatholicI never said it was built on that.

1:54:49Jay DyerAll of your system is built on your first principles.

1:54:53Base CatholicI literally told you I was willing to argue from the fathers alone, not using any Thomist like ideology.

1:54:57Jay DyerThere's no such that doesn't exist, you idiot. That doesn't exist. You have a paradigm like I have a paradigm. Doesn't exist. There is no arguing as if the church fathers are theory neutral. I'm arguing they're theory laden.

1:55:09Base CatholicYeah. Okay. And, obviously, I

1:55:11Jay Dyercan take Do you understand what that mean? Let internal critique. Do you under I'm not making internal critique. Agree with you. Do you think that

1:55:18Base Catholicsaying I am. I'm saying that I am, Jay, that I'm willing to take on your worldview to show you through internal critique that the fathers that you think affirm your theology actually disagree with you.

1:55:28Jay DyerNo. They don't. Well, then you well, then why are you debating doctor Beau Branson who has an entire, dissertation on this? Why don't you go debate him?

1:55:36Base CatholicBecause he doesn't have an open debate call.

1:55:38Jay DyerSure he does.

1:55:41Jay DyerHe's debated he's debated right now. Well, not right now. No. But he's debated multiple people.

1:55:45Base CatholicGot it.

1:55:46Base CatholicSo your your answer is just go debate someone else because I don't wanna talk about the fathers?

1:55:50Jay DyerNo. You don't want to address the fundamental

1:55:53Jay Dyerconflict between our system and Thomism

1:55:56Jay Dyerand I just you just admitted that you don't have to justify your first principles. Why should I accept your Thomist interpretation

1:56:02Jay Dyerif you can't address your first principles?

1:56:06Base CatholicJay, you keep on bringing up Thomism. I'm telling you

1:56:09Jay Dyerthat You said you're a Thomist.

1:56:10Base CatholicYou idiot. This debate.

1:56:12Base CatholicYeah. I brought it up. Already told you multiple times. For the sake of this debate, we can throw Thomism out the window.

1:56:16Speaker 1I just wanna talk

1:56:16Jay Dyerabout No. We can't. I wanna talk about No. We can't. We can't

1:56:19Speaker 1talk about the father's We

1:56:21Jay Dyerif

1:56:22Jay Dyerit's a paradigm level debate,

1:56:25Jay Dyeryou can't just go to the church fathers. That's my point. You have the wrong paradigm and the wrong starting point.

1:56:33Base CatholicOkay. Tell me the starting point. We'll go from there. This is how I

1:56:36Jay Dyerwant you to tell me why I'm supposed to accept your first principle, which is the parapatetic axiom. Prove that to me.

1:56:42Base CatholicI already told you for the sake

1:56:43Jay Dyerof So you can't so you can't prove are you admitting you can't prove your first principles? I don't want you to do it for the sake of argument. Are you just admitting that you can't prove your first principles?

1:56:52Base CatholicFor for the sake yeah. For the sake of this conversation,

1:56:55Base CatholicI I'm an idiot. I don't understand the first principles.

1:56:57Jay DyerAlright. This is a waste of time. So he's not gonna do it. So he noticed he won't admit

1:57:01Jay Dyerthat there isn't an argument for first principles because I'm not going to concede that the church fathers

1:57:06Jay Dyerare theory neutral. To go down that line of argumentation would assume

1:57:10Jay Dyerthat, well, you just read the church fathers. It's just like a protestant. You just read the clear text of scripture. You just read the clear writings of the church fathers.

1:57:18Jay DyerThat's why he's now having to discard his Thomistic position

1:57:23Jay Dyerbecause they can't justify their first principles,

1:57:26Jay Dyerand their first principles are what the rest of the Thomistic system hangs on. It's literally called foundationalism because it's stacked up. If I pull out the foundation, all the rest of this stuff falls apart.

1:57:37Jay DyerAnd I told him a million times, I don't believe and I don't accept your Thomistic reading of the Cappadocians,

1:57:43Jay Dyernor does doctor Branson. That's what his thesis is partly about.

1:57:51Jay DyerSo you're saying that was Jesus and whatnot?

1:57:56Jay DyerAre you guys joking or being serious?

1:58:02Speaker 5Just for the record, you guys all see how mean Jay Dyer is again.

1:58:07Speaker 5This is a great example of his meanness.

1:58:11Speaker 5Just wanted to say that.

1:58:13Jay DyerYeah. So I don't know why he had to why did he come under a a

1:58:18Jay Dyerhidden sock account when we were we were talking in DMs about having a conversation. So

1:58:24Jay Dyerso, again, the

1:58:25Speaker 5really weird thing about that. They're like, oh, yeah.

1:58:27Speaker 1I believe everything you believe. Just everything.

1:58:31Speaker 1Just let me do this one thing. Just come on. Let me do it.

1:58:34Jay DyerYeah. And you notice this is a common thing that young guys do where they pretend that they have these linguistic skills. Exact same thing that Ananda did. Right? Oh, I'm a linguistic translator.

1:58:44Jay DyerOh, really? What what languages do you have degrees in? Oh, I don't have a degree in anything.

1:58:49Jay DyerOh, how are you a linguistic trans AI?

1:58:55Speaker 5So I'm a lingo

1:58:57Speaker 5translator.

1:58:58Jay DyerYou'll notice, by the way, I also asked

1:59:00Jay DyerPine Suck to debate and he turned down too. He says, I can't debate

1:59:05Jay Dyerepistemology.

1:59:06Jay DyerI can't someone else. So

1:59:09Jay Dyerand I've been asking Pine Suck to do that debate for ten years because when he called in, we had the exact same exchange. So me and Pine Sapp had the exact same exchange as that guy. So good. I'm glad he got his little clip because

1:59:21Jay Dyerhe doesn't understand how to debate. Right?

1:59:25Jay DyerAnanda just apostatized. What are you talking about? What's wrong with the Ananda? I've to read these super tests really quick because I have to go. I've got something to do today.

1:59:32Jay DyerThank you for your lectures and live streams, Marvin says. Thank you.

1:59:35Jay DyerIron Giant says for $10. Have you heard of electronic

1:59:38Jay Dyermusic

1:59:39Jay Dyermaker Mort Garson? No. He pioneered stuff in the seventies. He also got into esoteric occult stuff. Now, I'm not familiar with him. John, you want say something while I read the super chats?

1:59:49Jay DyerOld Fox $5. My wife says she needs time and space. Is she calculating velocity? Yes.

1:59:54Jay DyerShe is. She's going to crash into you. She's calculating the velocity to crash into you. Greeny says for $30. I've been telling my uncle, he's been a labor party voter his whole life about the Milner Fabian information.

2:00:07Jay DyerHe here's what I say, but he won't accept it. Well, that's the thing. People are locked into their paradigms,

2:00:13Jay Dyerand that's why you have to argue for Thomism,

2:00:16Jay DyerCatholicism,

2:00:17Jay Dyeror what atheism. You have to argue at the paradigm level.

2:00:20Jay DyerThis is what I do. This is what we've been arguing for decades.

2:00:23Jay DyerRight? So

2:00:24Jay Dyergo ahead.

2:00:27Jay DyerGo ahead.

2:00:28Speaker 1The the lay that that's that's an interesting thing because

2:00:32Speaker 1the labor party itself

2:00:34Speaker 1Is the was

2:00:36Speaker 1the Fabian Socialist Party.

2:00:37Jay DyerExactly. It's just renamed. Exactly.

2:00:44Jay DyerSo basically, he's saying, grant me

2:00:47Jay Dyermy position,

2:00:49Jay Dyeror I'll grant you position, and now just go back to reading the church fathers as if you didn't make your argument at a about paradigms.

2:00:56Jay DyerSo

2:00:59Jay Dyerif I don't

2:01:00Speaker 1child is but let's let's

2:01:01Speaker 5all play make believe right now. Okay? Let's let's pretend

2:01:04Speaker 5that I believe everything you believe, and let me just do this one little argument. I'm gonna see what happens. Come on.

2:01:09Jay DyerSo Thomism is yeah. Thomism is an empirical theology, meaning that it's based on

2:01:15Jay Dyersense data, including reasoning about God always comes from sense data.

2:01:19Jay DyerThere's also reason about God that's from logic and reasoning, but you begin with your sense data, hence, the parapatetic axiom that Aquinas supports explicitly many times over is, there's nothing in the intellect that is not first in sense data. There's a problem with this empiricist type of approach. I'm not saying that he is a human empiricist, I'm saying it's an empirical approach like later empiricists.

2:01:40Jay DyerThe problem is that the peripatetic axiom itself is not in sense data. So this is an arbitrary

2:01:46Jay Dyerstarting point and a self evident

2:01:49Jay Dyerjust give me, just so type of position. Now in all of modern philosophy after

2:01:54Jay Dyerfrom,

2:01:55Jay Dyeryou know, Descartes and Hume and Kant onwards,

2:01:59Jay Dyerthe shift happens to where people call this into into question. People just don't accept

2:02:04Jay Dyerthe metaphysical given position anymore unless you're a classical foundationalist. Right?

2:02:09Jay DyerSo I'm gonna always have the same approach,

2:02:13Jay Dyernot because I don't wanna debate the filioque or I don't wanna talk about the Cappadocians. It's because

2:02:18Jay DyerI'm not gonna be interpreting them from the same way that you interpret. You believe in theory neutral evidences,

2:02:24Jay Dyertheory neutral, quote, brute facts.

2:02:26Jay DyerI don't believe there are any theory neutral brute facts. So I'm not going to grant you

2:02:30Jay Dyerthat you can just go and read the Cappadocians,

2:02:33Jay Dyerand that's how we solve it. Just like I'm not gonna grant to Eric Ybarra, oh, I just read the papal quotes and the church father quotes, and that proves papism.

2:02:40Jay DyerIt doesn't work like that. I have a different paradigm.

2:02:44Jay DyerAnd if your paradigm has a foundation

2:02:47Jay Dyerthat's faulty,

2:02:48Jay Dyerall I have to do is pull that out and the whole thing falls.

2:02:53Jay DyerAnd so he admits, I I don't know. I can't really defend that. So let's just say I can't defend it. Okay. Good. Then the the there's nothing else to debate and falls.

2:03:03Jay DyerHe doesn't even realize because he's a young guy. He's like 20.

2:03:06Jay DyerHe doesn't know that there's a giant vast academic scholarly history

2:03:11Jay Dyerdebating how to read Dionysius or the the Cappadocians. Do you read them or even Maximus.

2:03:17Jay DyerDo you read them from the orthodox paradigm,

2:03:20Jay Dyeror do you read them from a Thomistic lens?

2:03:22Jay DyerFor example, Hans Urs von Balthasar,

2:03:25Jay Dyerhe reads Maximus a confessor through a Thomistic lens to try to make it,

2:03:30Jay Dyermesh with Thomism.

2:03:32Jay DyerJust like Eastern Catholics, they will try to mesh Thomas Aquinas

2:03:36Jay Dyerand Gregory Palamas at times. Right? Some of the more ecumenist minded ones. Other ones admit you can't do it. Even

2:03:44Jay DyerChristian copies, their top uniate scholar, theologian admits you can't mesh these two. There's no way to mesh essence energy between Palamas and Aquinas.

2:03:53Jay DyerBut what I'm saying is that you can't just go to the Cappadocians on this question. When I immediately start asking him, notice the Thomist all to do the same thing. It's the same with Tim Gordon. They'll just start asserting all of these metaphysical givens. Well, clearly,

2:04:07Jay Dyerin the trinity, the metaphysics of the termination of the and it's like, why am I supposed to accept that model and that line of reasoning as a necessary implication? How do we know that that's the case?

2:04:19Jay DyerBecause remember, this is actually based on divine revelation. Right? Trinitarian theology

2:04:24Jay Dyerhas an element of reasoning, but it's not ultimately a rational position In Thomism, it's actually based on divine revelation,

2:04:30Jay Dyerwhich is

2:04:31Jay Dyerthat's grace building on nature. Reasoning is nature. Grace builds on that. And in their scheme,

2:04:38Jay Dyerit's totally different as a paradigm. We don't I don't think that. I don't as says

2:04:43Jay Dyerin in chapter one,

2:04:45Jay DyerI don't believe that there is natural theology. There's natural revelation.

2:04:49Jay DyerBut we don't grant the Thomistic

2:04:52Jay Dyerscheme.

2:04:53Jay DyerSo he's just gonna keep reading the church fathers and the the just like an atheist is gonna read the evidence

2:05:01Jay Dyerand the data

2:05:02Jay Dyerfrom his atheist paradigm.

2:05:04Jay DyerThis is why, for example, you can't argue

2:05:07Jay Dyerthe the apostles were very bold after the resurrection, so therefore Christianity is true. Right? Every atheist is gonna say, you're interpreting

2:05:16Jay Dyertheir boldness from your assumptions that that somehow proves the resurrection. It's a non sequitur.

2:05:22Jay DyerYou see what I'm saying? Like, the interpretation of the evidence is conditioned by the paradigm.

2:05:27Jay DyerSo to continue to have that debate at throwing patristic quotes back and forth or papal quotes back and forth

2:05:34Jay Dyeris ignoring the actual point of contention, which is rival paradigms. That's why I always bring it back to that.

2:05:41Jay DyerBecause it's a fruit a fruitless futile debate, it's just gonna be throwing quotes back and forth.

2:05:48Jay DyerBut he doesn't get that because he's adopted Thomism,

2:05:51Jay Dyerand he's only like 20. He doesn't he's just citing Latin like he knows Latin

2:05:55Jay Dyerto sound smart, which is all fraudulent because

2:05:58Jay Dyerhe admitted. At least he was honest. Right? He could have been he could have lied. Yeah. So I've I've I've studied Latin and speak it fluently.

2:06:05Jay DyerLike so I know he was tempted to say that, at but least he was honest that he didn't know it. I was like, well, then why are trying to talk in Latin like you're trying to sound smart?

2:06:13Jay DyerLike, imagine me just just citing Greek terms all day, you know, this is the or

2:06:18Jay Dyerthis is not the

2:06:19Jay Dyertheological way. Now you can say those terms. I'm not saying you can't say that, But to come in here with this scholastic gibberish to try to sound smart, it just doesn't it's it's to me, it sounds pretentious,

2:06:32Jay Dyerespecially if you don't define the terms, if you just try to machine

2:06:34Jay Dyergun it out.

2:06:37Jay DyerAnd

2:06:40Jay Dyerif this is not true,

2:06:42Jay Dyerif the parapathetic axiom is not true,

2:06:45Jay Dyerthen Thomism isn't true. And if Thomism isn't true, why am I going to accept a Thomist paradigm reading

2:06:53Jay Dyerof the Cappadocians or the Bible?

2:06:58Jay DyerDoes that not

2:07:00Jay Dyerdoes that not logically follow? Like, why would I accept

2:07:04Jay Dyerthe paradigm which informs how you read these texts if you can't explain to me why I accept the paradigm? So him conceding the paradigm is retarded.

2:07:14Jay DyerWell, then the Thomistic paradigm is false if you're conceding that. This is so silly. Like,

2:07:19Jay Dyerthat that's the actual sophistry here.

2:07:26Speaker 10What I got a question. Jay,

2:07:29Speaker 5you said you're debating some buzzer later. Where's where is that again?

2:07:32Jay DyerSo Josie the redhead libertarian. She's the Tim cast redhead girl. She has, I think, a million subscribers

2:07:39Jay Dyeron x. So I will be debating June junior

2:07:43Jay Dyeron her space slash her grumble channel.

2:07:47Speaker 5Are they gonna take, like, other questions and stuff or just be you and junior and her?

2:07:52Jay DyerI don't know how she'll do it. I think she last time when we had evangelical Zionist calling in, I think she took questions.

2:07:58Base CatholicOh, cool.

2:07:59Speaker 1Cool. What what

2:08:01Speaker 1time is that at?

2:08:03Jay DyerNine

2:08:07Jay Dyercentral.

2:08:08Base CatholicCool.

2:08:10Base CatholicYeah. That's it.

2:08:12Jay DyerYes. That will be fun.

2:08:14Jay DyerOf course, Junior is no good. He's low tier. So

2:08:18Speaker 1Wait. Am I gonna have to choose between listening to that and Tristan's livestream?

2:08:23Speaker 5I had to change it for Sunday. And, actually, I I blackmailed Jay into joining me on Sunday.

2:08:29Speaker 5I

2:08:30Speaker 1yeah. Yeah. Gonna make blackmail. Never mind. I won't never mind. I'm not gonna listen now.

2:08:36Speaker 5That'll be Sunday.

2:08:37Jay DyerI So this is this is Josie's

2:08:39Jay Dyerchannel here,

2:08:41Jay DyerRed Dead Libertarian.

2:08:44Jay DyerI'm sure her grumble is something similar to that

2:08:47Jay Dyerif you wanna watch it there.

2:08:49Jay DyerAnd I'll give you guys the link here.

2:08:53Jay DyerSo she will be moderating me,

2:08:56Jay Dyerand she usually does it for an hour, hour and a half.

2:08:59Jay DyerI think last time we had some people calling in, so I don't know if she'll have call ins or not. But this is actually the backup

2:09:06Jay Dyerof debate

2:09:07Jay Dyersince that one didn't happen. So there's that.

2:09:12Jay DyerBut

2:09:14Jay Dyerthe the other thing about the filioque is that, like, when you

2:09:18Jay Dyergive Thomism

2:09:19Jay Dyerit's just like when you're debating Muslims about metaphysics. This is giving it way too much, like, it's all a bunch of confusing,

2:09:25Jay Dyerlike, 99% of the audience doesn't even know what you're talking about when you start throwing around these stupid Latin terms. So there's really no point just like with Muslims in engaging in these, like, metaphysics high tier stuff because 99% of Muslims,

2:09:40Jay Dyer99.9,

2:09:41Jay Dyercan't do metaphysics. They have no idea what you're talking about.

2:09:45Jay DyerIt's much more effective

2:09:47Jay Dyerto just talk about, well, dude married a nine year old.

2:09:50Jay DyerThat converts way more people

2:09:53Jay Dyerthan all this Yeah. Highfalutin gibberish.

2:09:56Speaker 1Just

2:09:56Speaker 1for the sake of the audience, I just wanna say that

2:09:59Speaker 1Tristan

2:10:00Speaker 1and myself, all we do all day is harass Jay

2:10:04Speaker 1and make fun of him,

2:10:06Speaker 1and he he never gets mad. So he definitely has

2:10:10Speaker 1a high tolerance for

2:10:13Speaker 1for

2:10:14Speaker 1ribbing.

2:10:15Jay DyerWell, you guys are my friends, so I don't like but I get, you know, I get called names every day.

2:10:21Speaker 5We've

2:10:22Speaker 5had bot armies at.

2:10:24Speaker 5We've doxxed him and his family. We

2:10:28Speaker 5like, we Alright.

2:10:28Jay DyerHey. Guys, I'm physically harmed Yeah. His blood relatives in I gotta I gotta hurry because I gotta go I've gotta I've gotta go meet

2:10:36Jay DyerPavel, the the Russian bajo. So I got I can't

2:10:40Jay DyerI'd love to say and chat. Thank you guys so much. We'll have another call in very soon, but I gotta get through these and I gotta leave. So

2:10:46Jay DyerMohawk says, I'm a Jewish confidant of Christianity. Awesome. Matt Delmonkey, $20. Jay, what do think about IP versus Captain Crackrock? I have not seen that debate.

2:10:56Jay DyerI mean, I feel like probably IP would win that. I mean, Captain Crackrock is very low tier.

2:11:02Jay DyerThere's more and more red pill Judaizers that are thriving on sola scriptura.

2:11:07Jay DyerJ mail, $15. What do you think of TV USA, Protestant pastor, quote minds [mines]Corrected

2:11:11Jay Dyerabout Christian orthodoxy? I don't know what that is. I mean, obviously, I don't agree with any Protestant TB USA pastor or any Protestant pastor, period. So I'm sure I disagree, but I don't know what that is. Pondering metaphysics, seven dollars. People who use a divorce argument don't understand binding and loosing. Yeah. It's about

2:11:29Jay Dyerand they have a they read the service for a second marriage because it's obvious that it's not considered ideal. Yeah. It's and they don't they're not honest about the Roman Catholic flexibility themselves. They have a fund, $5.

2:11:40Jay DyerIt cannot be enforced by catechesis, but it should be enforced amongst laymen. It's inherently cringe to be a online debater catechumen right away. Yeah. We need to there needs to be policies on that for sure.

2:11:52Jay DyerSteven, $5. The new show, The Shards, has a satanic

2:11:56Jay DyerSRA

2:11:57Jay Dyerkiller in LA. That sounds interesting.

2:11:59Jay DyerThere's a cult called The Riders of Afterlife.

2:12:02Jay DyerOkay. A new show called Shards.

2:12:05Jay DyerMate, $5. Jay, I'm a catechumen in England. I've been received. It's a Greek church.

2:12:09Jay DyerI'll be baptized. I'm worried about the EP. Should I move? I mean, you know, move if you detect ecumenism

2:12:16Jay Dyerin your church.

2:12:17Jay DyerChristo, $50. I'm in Brazil. There's our neo pentecostal drug cartels. They wear Israeli patches. They're expelled from Roman Catholics,

2:12:27Jay Dyercommunities.

2:12:29Jay DyerWait. They're expelling Roman Catholics. They are dangerous radical

2:12:33Jay Dyerevangelicals.

2:12:34Jay DyerYeah. Exactly. We need to ask Tristan about that. Cave and Ruth's $5. Ortho bros pray to pray the acathist at Saint George. We should own that and stress that worship

2:12:44Jay Dyeris also intercession. Yeah. Worship is Eucharistic liturgy intercession of the saints all up.

2:12:51Jay DyerMister

2:12:52Jay Dyerhave you seen the Nick Mattel debate? I'm not. He destroyed Nicaea,

2:12:56Jay DyerCora, and Orthodox Muslim.

2:12:59Jay DyerNick Mattel, I have to look him up.

2:13:02Jay DyerIs that fearless Nick? I don't know who Nick Mattel is.

2:13:05Jay DyerBrett, $10.

2:13:07Jay DyerGive me this. Give me that.

2:13:09Jay DyerTrial by file. Trial by file. Van Tasius, $20. Debate Quandas.

2:13:13Jay DyerShe ain't gonna debate me, dude. She's gonna only gonna debate when there's hundreds of thousands of dollars or

2:13:19Jay DyerI don't even think she'll ever debate Andrew. Chatnik, $10. Jay converted me to Cobra Church.

2:13:24Jay DyerIf you have $1.30 to spare, watch the trailer for the game War Fantasy.

2:13:29Jay DyerWelcome to the new members. Iron Giant, $10. Did you ever hear of electronic music? No. We did that.

2:13:38Jay DyerGreen from Oz. No. We did that.

2:13:43Jay DyerJay, come to Saint Michael's in Louisville. Okay. Nicola's $50. Do you think something like filioque leads to separation from God?

2:13:51Jay DyerYeah. If you're knowingly

2:13:53Jay Dyeraffirming heterodox anti Tridentine positions, then yeah. I mean, the the Thomistic model is like it collapses nature into person. That's heresy one zero one according to Saint John Damascus. Matt Dillon Monkey, dollars 20. What do you think about IP? No, he did that. Matt Dillon Monkey, 5. Danny McBride makes fun of evangelicals, righteous gemstone.

2:14:12Jay DyerHe's totally doing that for his oh, yeah. So if Danny McBride makes fun of evangelicalism,

2:14:17Jay Dyerthen he's a Muslim. Exactly.

2:14:20Jay DyerMatt Dillon, monkey $5. Andre Atunes, metal video, mocking demonic prosperity pastors, pastor Paula White

2:14:26Jay Dyeris from Islam.

2:14:28Jay DyerYeah. Exactly. If you make fun of evangelicals, you're working in Islam.

2:14:32Jay DyerProtests and Muslims are the same, no true emperor policy. Exactly.

2:14:38Jay DyerFundamental jujitsu fideology. Why do women seem to be standoffish towards orthodox?

2:14:43Jay DyerCould be because it's fundamentally patriarchal, I don't know. Most of my husband's friends are interested, but their wives shut it down.

2:14:51Jay DyerI mean, women don't make typically the same decisions about churches and all those for the same reasons that men do. Men approach the question typically logically,

2:15:00Jay Dyerhistorically,

2:15:01Jay Dyerobjectively first,

2:15:04Jay Dyerand women usually make these decisions based on how they feel.

2:15:08Jay DyerRemember, head on over to chalk.com, chalk.com, best of sublimitation on the Internet. Everybody, have a good night. I will see you soon, and

2:15:14Jay Dyeruse promo code j 60 live at chalk.com,

2:15:17Jay Dyerchoq.com.

2:15:19Jay DyerThe link is

2:15:20Speaker 5in the

2:15:20Jay Dyershow description.

2:15:20Speaker 8You can also