Jay Dyer vs Styx Debate Abortion – Pro-Life vs Government Overreach

0:00Styxhexenhammer666As a pro choice individual, some of your fans won't like this when I say this. I know more than half of my fans probably don't like it. I'm pro choice.

0:09Styxhexenhammer666As far as federal funding, though, it's okay if that gets rescinded. The states and private groups will step in. I don't real I don't want people who are hyper religious to have to pay for abortion because they think that it's wrong. Mhmm. They have an odd they have an honest deep seated belief that it's morally wrong. I wouldn't make them pay for it. I would rather pay on their behalf.

0:28Styxhexenhammer666Go go ahead and charge me an extra $10 at the end of the year or whatever for however many religious people don't wanna pay. I don't have a problem with that.

0:37Andy WarskiAnd, Jay, you being pro life. Right? What's your opinion on his on his opinion?

0:45Andy WarskiI actually agree with that. Yeah.

0:47Jay DyerWell, yeah, I appreciate that that he would

0:50Jay Dyersee the logic of of at least there not being federal funding.

0:54Jay DyerI think that, you know, ultimately, this does come down to questions of morals and paradigms. So,

1:00Jay DyerI obviously, I would disagree with the state's funding as well. I mean, is kind of the way to get around this is make it a state's issue. You know, Ron Paul has this kind of position. So I understand the logic of it, but,

1:10Jay Dyerultimately, I think it comes out to a question of whether it's right or wrong and not just a question of of funding. And for me, even aside aside from, like, theological or religious moral issues is the issue of, the

1:22Jay Dyerorigins of the planned parenthood type movement in The US and where it comes from and why it's actually funded. If you look into that, I think there's also a case to be made against it.

1:32Styxhexenhammer666I I think I think you'd find that a great proportion of my fans, your fans, and everyone watching here would actually support them more if they knew where Planned Parenthood came from. Just gonna just gonna put that out there there.

1:44Styxhexenhammer666Yeah.

1:45Jay DyerWell, I mean, if you're talking about, like, basic Eugenics

1:48Styxhexenhammer666Eugenics.

1:48Jay DyerYeah. Eugenics. Exactly. Right. But the problem is that that kind of stuff doesn't

1:53Jay Dyerit doesn't stop with one,

1:55Jay Dyerpeople group. It actually ends up being turned on the other group. I think so that's the problem where we are now is that the same tactics that were used on different communities have actually turned against whites now, and whites are are suffering. You know?

2:08Styxhexenhammer666The the only thing that I would say is is fundamentally this. Whether you believe that abortion is right or wrong, government is always wrong and should not be playing a role in medical decisions and according to my opinion.

2:20Styxhexenhammer666Government shouldn't. If if a community wants to say, we don't like abortion,

2:24Styxhexenhammer666we're gonna discourage it, we're gonna tell this woman, hey. Please don't have an abortion. That's fine. Go ahead and and do the the moral neighborhood thing.

2:34Styxhexenhammer666But the government should not be making that decision. It opens up a can of worms where the government might tell you you can't have some other topical medical procedure

2:42Styxhexenhammer666because they find it morally wrong.

2:45Styxhexenhammer666I don't want that to happen. I don't trust government because I look at government, and I see constantly it's making the wrong decisions.

2:51Styxhexenhammer666It's constantly doing the wrong thing. It's constantly killing people. I want them to have less guns and us to have more

2:58Styxhexenhammer666at this point. I want them to have less leeway, less money, and everyone else to have more because I think that a private citizen, some random a gang member could probably govern their money better than the government could. You give a $100 to a gangbanger,

3:12Styxhexenhammer666they'll probably be better off with it than the government could be. That's the problem.

3:17Jay DyerOne thing I would say, though, is that I don't think that abortion, for example, exists in a vacuum. In other words, it's connected to a whole lot of other social engineering programs that you can actually verify. For example, there's the 1969

3:28Jay DyerJaffe

3:29Jay DyerBarrelson memo. If you

3:30Stoner Logiclook up the Bernard Barrelson memo, you'll see this list of things where the the state at the behest of the Rockefeller Foundation actually talked about large scale social engineering,

3:39Stoner Logicnot just abortion, but also

3:41Stoner Logicstatism through, like,

3:43Stoner Logiclimiting families, statism in terms of increased taxing,

3:47Stoner Logicall there as part of the LGBTQ

3:50Stoner Logictrans agenda in the sixties in this Planned Parenthood Rockefeller memo spelled out for our era.

3:57Stoner LogicYou mean LGBTQAST

4:02Styxhexenhammer666and 10/10 or 20 more letters thereafter.

4:06Jay DyerMake up new characters based on

4:08Styxhexenhammer666It it it has gone a little bit beyond. But but I'll say this, they can try to socially engineer, but there will always be benevolent individuals who can stop them. So I'm not particularly worried because counter propaganda is way more powerful. Memetics is way more powerful than Margaret Sanger and all these people ever could possibly have dreamed of.

4:28Andy WarskiAJ,

4:31Andy Warskilike, you're pro life. How about if the, how about if the woman is raped and then she's, like, pregnant?

4:38Jay DyerYeah. I mean, I think there are there are situations where if if it becomes I mean, I don't think that our position has to be completely against reason. I think that that we can utilize reason

4:49Jay Dyerin concord with, you know, even my religious beliefs or other people's religious beliefs. So if it's a situation where, obviously, the woman's the the baby the child's not going to survive,

4:59Jay Dyeryeah, I think that's a pretty normative standard.

5:01Jay DyerBut, you know, you you get more difficult cases where, you know,

5:06Jay Dyerwhat exactly happened is in dispute, rape, this kind of this kind of stuff.

5:11Jay DyerI think the problem is that once you open the doorway, you know, it does become a Pandora's box. You know, sticks makes the same same kind of argument about the state, you know, and why the state,

5:21Jay Dyeris, say, against Richard Spencer or someone like this, that we have to beware of the Pandora's box. I think that's a valid argument for things like euthanasia,

5:29Jay Dyerthe state controlling who lives and dies.

5:32Jay DyerI don't think the state has has that that should have that power.

5:36Styxhexenhammer666That's actually interesting because I pointed out on the last video about it. A lot of people who are pro life, they'll say, oh, except for rape, incest,

5:45Styxhexenhammer666the mother's life is in danger maybe or something. I I think you're being more honest if I take it correctly that that you wouldn't support it in those cases either. At least that's consistency

5:56Styxhexenhammer666because they'll say, oh, it's okay for my feels or something. And it's like, well, you know, you're saying abortion is murder, so why would it be okay just because it's an incest incest rape maybe or something like that?

6:09Styxhexenhammer666And I'm sitting here. I I I I just say that the government should not be making that decision. I would leave it up to private citizens because I'm gonna trust them

6:17Stoner Logicmore.

6:17Andy WarskiI know.

6:18Styxhexenhammer666I don't I honestly I can't trust government with that kind of power. I just can't do it. It's not in my nature.

6:24Andy WarskiWhat? Have you heard of what's happening in Ireland right now?

6:28Andy WarskiThey're having the vote to to

6:31Andy Warskiabortion is illegal

6:32Andy Warskiin Ireland,

6:34Andy Warskiright now. Right? And they're having the vote to either make it illegal or legal. Right?

6:39Andy WarskiAnd and women from there, when they want an abortion, they fly over to the, UK or take a boat there and have an abortion over there. And

6:48Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. That's what they did here with Canada and Mexico.

6:50Styxhexenhammer666Exactly when it was illegal here.

6:52Andy WarskiYeah.

6:53Jay DyerBut Yeah.

6:53Styxhexenhammer666But, I mean,

6:54Jay Dyerwe're all aware of, like, demographic replacement and that the numbers are not enough for there to be replacement. And I I don't think we can look past the fact that the part of the reason for this is that promotion of the culture of of sterilization,

7:07Jay Dyersterility, abortion, which has happened in the West by design.

7:10Styxhexenhammer666You realize that most abortions take place in, in black for black females. Right?

7:16Jay DyerRight. But that but that's spreading now beyond beyond black neighborhoods. Yeah.

7:20Styxhexenhammer666Well, you know, I I really don't care who gets an abortion. They're gonna get they're gonna get them anyway. Look. Back back fifty,

7:28Styxhexenhammer666sixty years ago before Roe v Wade,

7:30Styxhexenhammer666people would just puncture their cervix with a coat hanger in the most literal sense. Now some people think it's a coat hanger abortion. That's a lie. They would puncture their cervix to get to bleed, and then they would go and say, hey. I'm miscarrying.

7:42Styxhexenhammer666And then they would have the abortion of the doctor. In the case of emergency, it was still allowed.

7:47Styxhexenhammer666And a lot of people ended up sterile, and a lot of people died as the result of it. I'd rather have that procedure

7:54Styxhexenhammer666in a a medical setting than them going into an alley with a a half bottle of whiskey and a rusty co hanger. I I have to say, look.

8:02Styxhexenhammer666If I had a daughter,

8:04Styxhexenhammer666I wouldn't want her to live in a country that would tell her, hey. The government's gonna make this fucking decision for you.

8:11Styxhexenhammer666I wouldn't be comfortable with that. It should be her decision to make. I fully believe that.

8:16Jay DyerRight. But I'm just making the point. I think that that there's such a thing as toxic culture that that powerful groups can engineer

8:23Jay Dyerlarge scale ideologies to alter and change a culture. Like, for example, I just did a

8:29Jay Dyerlecture on one of the top globalists of France. He's sort of the kissenger of France, Jacques Atelier,

8:34Jay Dyerand he's such a big fan of Marxist as Marxism as a capitalist supposedly that he can't wait for the AI to determine who lives and dies based on, know, the the sort of private run

8:46Jay Dyermedical

8:47Jay DyerAI smart cities. Right? And he says it's gonna be the smart city running

8:51Jay Dyerthe the the

8:53Jay Dyertied into the to the medical the big big pharma, big medical corporation deciding who lives and dies. And so that's actually part of the same agenda. You have to inculcate this culture of death for for many, many decades before you can get to that Jacques Atelier, h g Wells,

9:09Jay Dyerdystopian phase.

9:11Styxhexenhammer666I I highly doubt that it'll be implemented because people will fight back.

9:15Styxhexenhammer666But that's a medical decision. That's that's that dates back decades and decades. That has nothing to do with postmodernism

9:21Styxhexenhammer666and the social justice warrior since we generally understand it. We can fight back against that while still admitting the state itself should not be the one arbiting that decision.

9:31Styxhexenhammer666Well, but I mean In my opinion.

9:32Jay DyerRight. Right. I mean, the Fortune one hundred, who are not the state but actually own many states, I mean, they they promote these things globally. I mean, that's why the trans agenda is global is because the the the Fortune one hundred are behind it.

9:45Styxhexenhammer666Well, the trans agenda can't even get past the feminists.

9:49Styxhexenhammer666They're constantly killing and attacking one another. You look at a a shoe on head and her drama there getting beaten up over that too.

9:58Styxhexenhammer666This is even touching the the so called liberalists

10:01Styxhexenhammer666sort of crowd. It's pretty funny.

10:04Andy WarskiYep. But, Jay, do you think that abortion

10:07Andy Warskishould be illegal here in the West?

10:10Jay DyerAbsolutely. Yeah. That would be the the first step towards

10:14Jay Dyerrising birth rates again. And that that would that

10:17Styxhexenhammer666would be like outlawing drugs. It won't work.

10:20Jay DyerWell, actually, it has worked. I mean, there's a difference. I would say there's a difference between,

10:25Jay Dyerdrugs, and I'm familiar with the the complexities of what the drug war and all that. I know the CIA runs the drugs, but,

10:31Jay DyerI'm just saying there's a difference between because it's a question of morality,

10:35Jay Dyerthere's also a pragmatic aspect to the drug question. So two different issues I wouldn't equate,

10:40Jay Dyerwhether or not humans have a right to life from the womb with just the license to to take drugs. Because, for example, I would say we were we were qualitatively a much more moral society at a time when you could go to a drugstore and buy cocaine

10:54Jay Dyera hundred years ago.

10:56Jay DyerApothecaries had cocaine.

10:58Styxhexenhammer666You could also buy penny royal and cohosh and get a chemical abortion back then. That's the point.

11:03Jay DyerYeah. But but just because people will do something in a in a healthy fashion doesn't mean that that it's not still something that should be,

11:12Jay Dyermorally,

11:14Jay Dyeroutlawed. I mean, I this comes back to the question of the role of the state, which, you know, I'm not I'm not libertarian, so you and I would disagree there. But, you know, I think the state does have a role in in things like, for example, on pro death penalty.

11:26Jay DyerSo there's a difference between life and death, and not all killing,

11:30Jay Dyeris murder.

11:31Styxhexenhammer666I I find it very funny that you'd be pro death penalty while at the same time being in in,

11:36Styxhexenhammer666against abortion.

11:38Andy WarskiYeah. That's interesting.

11:39Jay DyerI see no no, conflict now.

11:41Styxhexenhammer666I had I had I'm exactly the averse on that, and I admit the contradiction. It is very funny of me, to have those views, but I will say this. The state shouldn't decide. The the the fundamental central principle

11:55Styxhexenhammer666is I don't trust the state to make that kind of decision. I don't trust it to execute someone.

12:00Styxhexenhammer666I don't trust it to tell people what medical procedures to get. I don't trust it to tell people what to do with their money, what to do with their land. I don't trust it to tell people what firearms they can own. I don't think that it has the constitutional right. According to my understanding of constitution, it shouldn't be involved in any of these things. That sort of moralism is prefaced on the temperance era. That that was the, an afterthought.

12:23Styxhexenhammer666It was never really dreamed of until two things happened.

12:26Styxhexenhammer666Eighteen seventies, you get the crook shank decision, and the southern democrats, the Ku Klux Klan sort of democrats,

12:33Styxhexenhammer666attempt gun control. Further

12:36Styxhexenhammer666beyond that in the gilded age, you get all of a sudden the government attempting to crack down on monopolies and trusts, and this is what breeds the concept of centrality

12:45Styxhexenhammer666within The Americas. It was never really present. The problem is, of course,

12:49Styxhexenhammer666this actually didn't help because you were also in the carpetbag era, which meant that they always could take bribes, and they would not apply those laws to the actual evildoers. They would apply it to their competitors.

13:00Styxhexenhammer666That's why where you get corporatism.

13:03Styxhexenhammer666That's the government that we deal with. Why would I wanna give it more power?

13:06Andy WarskiWell, in Ireland,

13:08Andy Warskithere was someone who the doctor said, if she has this baby,

13:13Andy Warskishe will die.

13:15Andy WarskiAnd she had to have the baby,

13:18Andy Warskiand she died. This is, like, last month.

13:20Styxhexenhammer666What a what a wonderful moral government, isn't it?

13:22Andy WarskiAnd and no one told her because she had no idea that

13:26Andy Warskiif she

13:28Andy Warskitook a boat over to The UK that she was able to have it there. So she ended up passing away. So, Jay, isn't there like a like a a slippery slope where if you make it, illegal,

13:40Andy Warskithey'll take it to the level where if in that situation,

13:44Andy Warskithey won't let you have an abortion even though it's medically

13:48Andy Warskineeded for the person to survive.

13:53Jay DyerWell, okay. Yeah. I mean, these kinds of cases actually are very rare and oftentimes they're kind of rolled out as sort of like as if they happen all the time and that's why we have to really focus on these kinds but they don't happen a lot, these kinds of situations. Now, I'm not saying that they don't matter, but

14:08Jay Dyeragain, there's always been you know, the the doctor has a a level of making a judgment call, and that's gonna be true for any kind of medical

14:16Jay Dyersituation that's somewhat of an emergency. So I'm not being irrational in saying that that there can never be situations where,

14:23Jay Dyerit's deemed advantageous

14:25Jay Dyerto save the mother's life, certainly.

14:29Jay DyerBut that really is a different question from whether there's such a thing as right to life from the womb or not. Two two different questions. So in other words, because there are consequentialist

14:38Jay Dyerethic type dilemmas at times,

14:40Jay Dyerit doesn't lead us to the conclusion that there aren't moral absolutes. And, of course, I am somebody who supports the the idea of moral absolutes.

14:49Styxhexenhammer666But but you say that they're rare and and this is meaningful.

14:52Styxhexenhammer666It's also rare that people get an abortion after five or six months in in the third trimester, and yet it's constantly trotted out for the pro life crowd. Oh, look at this. Look at this almost formed baby.

15:03Styxhexenhammer666Oh, you think you think that infants should be killed at eight in a month, three weeks, and six days or some crazy shit like that.

15:11Styxhexenhammer666That gets trotted out constantly.

15:13Jay DyerNo. I would totally agree with you that that, the majority of the pro life crowd and their argumentation is very weak.

15:20Jay DyerIn fact, it's almost like a humanistic type thing and precisely because it's not grounded in any in any philosophy that's beyond

15:27Jay Dyerjust bare humanism, which they haven't actually justified.

15:31Jay DyerThey they actually undermine a lot of their of their case many of the many time much of the time.

15:37Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. I would also point out you can go ahead and make it illegal here and would just end up going back to what we were before Roe v Wade. People would go to Canada or Mexico.

15:46Styxhexenhammer666The upper class, you go to Canada where it's, you know, first world medicine. They get an abortion the same as they do now. People who are a little bit less well off or they're close to the southern border, they'll go down to Mexico. And people who are very poor, which are the most at risk anyway, will literally use, hey. I'm gonna guzzle alcohol.

16:03Styxhexenhammer666I'm gonna punch myself in the stomach. I'm gonna puncture my cervix,

16:07Styxhexenhammer666you know, the doctor will think I'm miscarrying.

16:09Styxhexenhammer666I I don't think that you want that sort of society.

16:12Styxhexenhammer666If you believe in the in the are you a Christian? Let me ask you that.

16:16Jay DyerYeah. I'm Orthodox.

16:18Styxhexenhammer666Okay.

16:19Styxhexenhammer666As a Christian, you can't possibly believe that that's a moral society.

16:24Styxhexenhammer666I'm I'm gonna hazard a guess that you can't you can't possibly fathom

16:28Styxhexenhammer666a society in which a state has made that kind of decision. That sounds a lot like me,

16:33Styxhexenhammer666to me, like the sort of stuff that you would expect from maybe a communist authoritarian

16:38Styxhexenhammer666state.

16:39Jay DyerWell, I mean, the history of of of Western civilization,

16:42Jay Dyerespecially after the rise of Christianity, put away the idea that the Romans had that the father could actually decide whether or not the children lived or die or, you know, they they would oftentimes

16:53Jay Dyerhe had the the right to kill daughters.

16:56Jay DyerYou know, Christianity influenced that in a big way to change things. So the history of the West through the, you know, the the seven ecumenical councils that we, as orthodox, hold hold authoritative

17:08Jay DyerThe Byzantine Empire I mean, the norm and even in the West, the norm is that abortion and infanticide were considered illegal and were illegal.

17:17Jay DyerIn fact, in scripture, it carries the death penalty or a similar type of penalty to if a woman has a child,

17:24Jay Dyerand you

17:25Jay Dyerhurt the woman and and it danger endangers the child or kills the child, you're still liable for that kind of a death type penalty. So in in our in our theology sense.

17:34Jay DyerYeah. In our theology, it's it's it's consistent. It's worked out. That's why we believe in just war, for example, but that doesn't mean that war is necessarily a good thing. You know, a lot of times life requires

17:45Jay Dyerdifficult decisions.

17:47Jay DyerAnd, you know, for example, Byzantium had to stand against Islam,

17:50Jay Dyerand unfortunately, it fell. So, you know, that's just the realities of this world, but I don't think that my position is is

17:58Jay Dyerirrational or necessarily

18:00Jay Dyerbrings about a k a situation that is dystopian.

18:03Jay DyerIn fact, it is the culture of death in all the globalists who write about this that will, in their mind, lead to,

18:09Jay Dyerthis complete dystopia that they have planned.

18:12Styxhexenhammer666I wouldn't say that it's an issue of globalism because one can be more nationalistic like myself and still understand the concept that the state shouldn't have that power. I take up, though, a pragmatic line. It's not even really a libertarian line. What I'm saying is if you were to ban let's say you ban abortion,

18:28Styxhexenhammer666except in these few cases or or, you know, in all cases,

18:32Styxhexenhammer666people will simply skirt that law and go elsewhere. Elsewhere. In fact, so long as there is a nationalistic

18:37Styxhexenhammer666world in which there are multiple states, they can always travel to another state to obtain an abortion. Somebody will be will be willing

18:45Styxhexenhammer666because people are inherently capitalistic

18:47Styxhexenhammer666to supply that good or service.

18:50Jay DyerYeah. It's

18:51Styxhexenhammer666just you've just created a black market within your country that's gonna be exploited by people that you don't want to make money. You wanna throw them in jail ultimately.

19:00Styxhexenhammer666And people outside of the country who are more opportunistic, they'll advertise their services. Like, if abortion were made illegal in The United States, yeah, I'd probably grow more more cohosh and pennyroyal.

19:11Styxhexenhammer666Absolutely.

19:13Styxhexenhammer666And

19:13Jay DyerI wouldn't

19:13Styxhexenhammer666and I wouldn't think that that was morally wrong.

19:16Jay DyerYeah. I understand. I just I don't see that as a consistent line of reasoning as to why we would,

19:23Jay Dyermake something legal. For example, there's all kinds of things that people are going to do outside the law. That in itself isn't really a justification for

19:31Styxhexenhammer666If if it's generally unenforceable.

19:33Styxhexenhammer666If it is generally unenforceable

19:35Styxhexenhammer666to the point where people will bypass that law, I would say don't bother. That way, this is an argument for weed legalization.

19:43Styxhexenhammer666It's simply unenforceable

19:44Styxhexenhammer666at this point. Even the states are rebelling on it. There's no way that the federal government can possibly crack down.

19:50Styxhexenhammer666If the can of worms is open, they're not gonna be able to keep up the propaganda that if you smoke weed, you're gonna smoke crack. It doesn't work anymore. I carry this forward, and I say it's not just weed. It's psychedelics too. That's a minority opinion now. Twenty, thirty years from now, we'll see if it still is. As far as abortion goes, though, this was our this was a seventies era debate, and they had the debate because it was unenforceable.

20:13Styxhexenhammer666No. But it wasn't brought up because everyone agreed, hey. You know, this is a horrible thing. We don't need abortion.

20:19Styxhexenhammer666Just have the child. A lot of people ended up sterilized

20:24Styxhexenhammer666or they ended up dead or they ended up going to other countries to get abortions. Millions of people. That's why they had the national debate. That's why it went before the court because people cared. No. If they hadn't cared, it wouldn't have gone before the Supreme Court. They never never would have been a Roe v Wade.

20:39Jay DyerI have to disagree with you there because the reason that it became a national debate and it was passed,

20:45Jay Dyeris because of the principally

20:48Jay Dyerthe Rockefeller family and their their support and promotion of this because they've had such an influence through entities like the council on foreign relations, the CFR,

20:57Jay Dyerwhich are entities that are able to, on a large scale, socially engineer. You can read about this in David Rockefeller's memoirs. He brags about it. You can read about it in, Horowitz and Colliers

21:07Jay Dyerauthorized

21:08Jay Dyerbiography of the Rockefellers.

21:09Jay DyerThey talk about this very openly, the the barrels and jabbing memo that

21:13Stoner LogicI was

21:13Styxhexenhammer666But getting getting off the memo yeah. Getting off the Rockefellers,

21:17Styxhexenhammer666though.

21:18Styxhexenhammer666Abortion was already happening. I can I can read texts from five centuries before that prescribe abortifacians?

21:27Styxhexenhammer666They were already happening. It says that's the era in which it becomes popularized. Hey. It's k you're capable of getting this if you need it. Before that, some some 14 year old raped by her own father, yeah, probably didn't know she could get an abortion and go on with her life and not feel ashamed every day. But, yeah, in that era, it becomes popularized. Now some people, yes, they try to use it as a form of birth control. That's very regrettable.

21:51Styxhexenhammer666Ultimately, I like to think, and and I believe that the statistics bear me out on this, that that's relatively uncommon.

21:58Styxhexenhammer666Most people abort in the first trimester, maybe the second. They don't wait until the baby is formed. And, also, the bible itself you're orthodox.

22:06Styxhexenhammer666The bible itself speaks of the quickening. That's at roughly five months when the baby starts kicking and and doing things. That's when the breath of life enters the infant according to the bible, at least the the King James version.

22:22Jay DyerNo. Again, in our view, the argument is made from

22:26Jay Dyerchapter Exodus chapters 19 to 22 where there's this

22:30Styxhexenhammer666That's old testament. I'm I'm believe I'm speaking of the new testament. Let me look it up. I'll try I'll find the verse if I can.

22:36Jay DyerWell

22:37Jay Dyeryeah. But but, I mean, orthodox theology, our our our theology is not just based on the new testament. We we view the the the whole,

22:44Jay Dyertotality of the scripture as revelatory. But again, you're basically making a consequentialist

22:50Jay Dyerargument for why something should be legalized. The problem with that is that the fact that people get around things doesn't really have anything to do with whether it's right or wrong. And we're talking about issues of right and wrong, I would say, unless you just wanna make a pragmatic argument, which maybe that's what you're doing there.

23:06Styxhexenhammer666It keeps to bringing up first Corinthians. That's the one about Adam, but it's, similar.

23:11Styxhexenhammer666No. I I can't remember the exact verse, but it

23:14Styxhexenhammer666essentially states that life begins with quickening.

23:17Jay DyerThat's Well, there's a Talmudic there's a Talmudic argument that life begins,

23:22Jay Dyeryou know, several months in. But, for most

23:25Jay DyerOrthodox Christianity and the history of Christianity and the church fathers, that's not true. We we believe in the second set.

23:30Styxhexenhammer666For the but for The United States, the Orthodox Christian path is a small minority. You do acknowledge that. Here, it's here, it's mainly Protestants and then Catholics. Right. And then nonbelievers.

23:42Andy WarskiYeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm, I'm pro choice as well. However,

23:47Andy WarskiI I do,

23:50Andy Warskisay to people who go, well, it's not a real baby yet. It's not like a real human. Like, the fact that it will be a baby,

23:59Andy Warskithat's still stopping life.

24:01Andy WarskiMaybe not killing life, but eventually stopping what will be life.

24:05Styxhexenhammer666From forming. Yeah.

24:07Andy WarskiYeah. So, like, for me, I I sort of like, and I'm still I'm still pro choice.

24:13Andy WarskiRight?

24:14Andy WarskiSo that's sort of how I see it. I always see

24:17Andy Warskialways think when someone's like, well, it's not technically a baby yet. I'm like, well,

24:23Andy Warskiit will be a baby. So it feels like a cop out almost, like an excuse,

24:29Andy Warskiyou know? Like, I think just call a spade a spade, you know? That's that's my opinion on that.

24:35Andy WarskiIt's one of my Yeah.

24:36Styxhexenhammer666And it's not something that that that needs to be encouraged. That's the thing. You're interjecting.

24:41Styxhexenhammer666Globalists would come and encourage the concept of having abortions for some wanton region.

24:47Styxhexenhammer666If you wanna say that that's not a good idea, that's fine. I am simply saying that something that has been done for centuries and will be done regardless of the law, it is unenforceable,

24:58Styxhexenhammer666and I don't trust the government to make that decision.

25:01Styxhexenhammer666The literal literally, you can have a tea of penny royal and and blue cohosh, and it will induce an abortion. You can use a parsley pessary for these things.

25:11Styxhexenhammer666If it's not made more simple in the surgical sense, then it will be done in the herbal sense. That's less safe. It will have a higher death toll. That's the unfortunate part of it. It can still be done, but it will kill more people. I I I

25:26Styxhexenhammer666do really don't wanna prescribe death to people. I don't think that that's appropriate.

25:30Jay DyerYeah. I mean, this this sort of,

25:32Jay Dyeragain, consequentialist ends justify the means, pragmatic type argument argumentation is the same kind of argumentation that, like, Alfred Kinsey would use to justify his, you know, molesting kids and his scientific experimentation. I mean, if it if the ends

25:45Jay Dyerbenefit humanity in the long run, if, you know, people are or we could say people are gonna get around the laws against molesting children. So so what How

25:53Styxhexenhammer666does this have anything to do with molesting children or with kids?

25:57Jay DyerBecause because the the basis that you made for why it can't it shouldn't be, legal or that it should be made illegal is because it can't be enforced

26:05Jay Dyerand people will get around it.

26:07Styxhexenhammer666It's not just the fact that it's unenforceable.

26:09Styxhexenhammer666It's the fact that people have been doing this for so long.

26:13Jay DyerObvious kids for No. A long

26:16Styxhexenhammer666No. That has nothing to do with it. Those are that's an apple and oranges comparison.

26:21Jay DyerBut the but the the the

26:22Styxhexenhammer666Violating violating the NAP of another sovereign individual is a little bit different from a debate over whether a lump of cells at two weeks in is sentient.

26:31Jay DyerWell, I've

26:31Styxhexenhammer666I've That's a little

26:32Jay Dyerbit different. They a they have a heartbeat. So No.

26:35Styxhexenhammer666It did not. At that point, it does not have a heartbeat.

26:37Jay DyerAbsolutely. Yes. It does.

26:38Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. You

26:39Jay Dyerknow It's actually it's it's arbitrary it's arbitrary to say

26:42Styxhexenhammer666two weeks, it has a heartbeat, you're saying?

26:45Jay DyerIt's arbitrary to

26:46Styxhexenhammer666say That on that one, you need to cons I have to respectfully

26:49Styxhexenhammer666disagree and tell you to consult some biological textbooks on that one.

26:54Jay DyerWell, I mean, there's quite

26:55Styxhexenhammer666a few Child molestation

26:57Styxhexenhammer666child molestation

26:58Styxhexenhammer666and medical procedures are not the same thing.

27:00Jay DyerNo. I'm not talking about understood or something.

27:03Styxhexenhammer666The state does not have the right to tell a woman that she cannot choose an abortion,

27:08Styxhexenhammer666at least within a reasonable

27:10Styxhexenhammer666period of time. At the same time, if the state were to come out and say, hey. 10 year olds need to go prostitute themselves, that wouldn't be appropriate either. It would violate the NAP. It's violating the NAP of a woman if it's telling her what they can or cannot do. These these two things have nothing to do with one another.

27:27Jay DyerThis is arbitrary. There's no reason that I should follow the NAP. It's just an arbitrary thing.

27:31Styxhexenhammer666Then if you don't wanna follow the NAP, the government can tell you abortion's legal deal with it and pay it for for with your taxes, can't

27:37Jay DyerThe the GOAR government pay

27:39Styxhexenhammer666for pay for it shit, Laura, essentially, is what they'd say. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm telling you, I wouldn't make you pay a penny.

27:45Styxhexenhammer666I'm willing to pay your share because I don't believe that you should be put upon any more than I should be.

27:51Jay DyerYeah. But see, it doesn't really matter whether it's the government, the state, or the corporate power. The because you always talk about the state.

27:59Jay DyerThe state is not even really a thing that has that much power in our day because it's run by corporations. The corporations, the banks own the states. So that's actually the end result of individual,

28:10Jay Dyeratomistic capitalism is the rise of monopoly capitalists. Oh, that's not

28:14Styxhexenhammer666that's not capitalism. That's corporatism. That's the abandonment of capitalism in favor of centrality.

28:19Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. But sort of centrality is not capitalism.

28:22Jay DyerIt it leads to that logically. Absolutely, it does. And you can trace Not not

28:25Styxhexenhammer666in its proper form. You're thinking of carpetbag. The corporatist model that we run today is much, much closer.

28:32Styxhexenhammer666Uh-huh.

28:33Jay DyerOn what basis should anybody follow the proper form of capitalism?

28:37Jay DyerI mean, ayn Rand's position, for example I know you're not ayn Randian, but I'm just saying No. If were to adopt if I were to adopt Randianism, there's no reason why I should respect other people's liberties or the nonaggression principle. It's just arbitrary.

28:47Styxhexenhammer666No. You shouldn't, and other people shouldn't too. That's why you need to create counterbalances

28:51Styxhexenhammer666of power. That's the basic form of the country relies upon the concept of the separation of powers and the fact that

28:57Jay Dyeryou balance You're assuming that separation of powers is a good, and so you have a higher metaphysical principle of the good to which you're saying that we should all strive. Maybe that's not the good. Maybe the good is just my company, my corporation smashing everybody else and taking us into the future.

29:12Styxhexenhammer666That's that's what you should attempt to do. Absolutely.

29:15Jay DyerI'm the god works fine. I'm the god who works good.

29:19Styxhexenhammer666Yes. You should.

29:21Styxhexenhammer666And and likewise,

29:22Styxhexenhammer666people should resist authoritarian

29:24Styxhexenhammer666government if the government's trying to tell them what medical procedures they can and cannot have.

29:29Andy WarskiI have someone,

29:30Andy Warskiwho was in the chat. I'm talking to on DMs right now who says he disagrees with both of you,

29:38Andy Warskiwhich I was like, how's this? So I'm trying to figure out exactly his his meaning. Would you dudes be a down and speak to him?

29:46Styxhexenhammer666Sure.

29:47Andy WarskiOkay. And here's what I will do. Just in case,

29:50Andy WarskiI will

29:51Andy Warskihave the camera

29:53Andy Warskionly on me in case he screen shares and, like, here's a fucking dick just to ruin everything. I That would

29:59Styxhexenhammer666be very funny if he did.

30:01Andy WarskiYeah. And that's why I I will have so I'll I'll bring him in and

30:04Styxhexenhammer666To this mystery person, you should you should moon the camera. It will be much more entertaining.

30:09Andy WarskiYeah. So that's why I will have the camera only on me

30:13Andy Warskiuntil I

30:14Jay DyerSex ed class. He's gonna show us how babies come to be.

30:18Styxhexenhammer666So I'm gonna say something

30:20Styxhexenhammer666like he's he's confused on abortion because he likes the idea of killing babies,

30:24Styxhexenhammer666but he doesn't wanna watch a woman chew.

30:26Andy WarskiBut but he says that he is

30:31Andy Warskifrom he's he's looking at this from an anarchist perspective.

30:36Andy WarskiSo I'll bring him in, let's say, about five minutes. Is that cool?

30:42Jay DyerSure.

30:42Andy WarskiYeah.

30:43Andy WarskiI mean, it's up to you, like, you dudes, but this

30:46Andy WarskiI mean, this is pretty intense

30:47Jay Dyerright now. I think you got it. It's on me. Yeah. It'll be fun.

30:50Andy WarskiCool. Cool.

30:50Jay DyerI was hoping that one dude that was talking about your crap today was gonna come on.

30:54Andy WarskiOh, yeah. You were guy

30:55Jay Dyerisn't that guy?

30:57Styxhexenhammer666No. By the way, Andy, can I ask you one thing?

30:59Andy WarskiSure. Sure.

31:00Styxhexenhammer666Do. Have you ever tried randomly adding, like, thousands and thousands of people, like like, publicly tweeting out the Hangouts link and see what happens?

31:09Andy WarskiNo. I haven't. No. No. I always just do it.

31:11Styxhexenhammer666You've to do that sometimes, though.

31:14Andy WarskiYeah. But I wouldn't I wouldn't put the camera

31:17Andy Warskion. Like, I I have done where I screen shared for a second,

31:22Andy Warskiand then I showed the link, and then people just started jumping in. Right? Which is very sketchy because if it's someone who hates me and wants to ruin the channel, they just put up a dick pic real quick.

31:35Andy WarskiBut yes. Oh, wait. Wait. Oh, sorry.

31:38Andy WarskiHe he's saying

31:40Andy Warskifrom an anarchist perspective, I would say government should have

31:45Andy Warskiokay. Yeah. Sorry. I thought he was saying he wants to disagree

31:49Andy Warskipolitically.

31:50Andy WarskiBut, yeah, I'll bring him in him in in a second here. I know Jay just

31:55Andy Warskihe'll be back in a sec here. I'll send you the link in a sec, bud.

32:00Andy WarskiBut Yeah.

32:00Styxhexenhammer666To go pee pee.

32:01Andy WarskiYeah. But I I do find it interesting

32:04Andy Warskihim

32:06Andy Warskiand then I have to piss too because I have, like you

32:09Andy Warskican't see here, but on the live show, people can see. Let me see. I have a fucking

32:15Andy Warskijug of water

32:16Andy Warskibecause I was leaving on Friday to, like, just grab water constantly.

32:21Andy WarskiBut

32:23Andy Warskiyeah. What was I gonna say? Yeah. It's interesting about how he's

32:27Andy Warskianti abortion,

32:28Andy Warskibut

32:29Andy Warskipro death penalty.

32:32Andy WarskiThat is very interesting because if we're looking at it in a morality

32:36Andy Warskiperspective,

32:37Andy Warskiwouldn't it be immoral to kill people?

32:40Andy WarskiThat's

32:41Styxhexenhammer666Meanwhile, I'm the opposite. I'm like, the state shouldn't kill people, and I don't care if women have abortions.

32:47Andy WarskiYeah.

32:48Andy WarskiI mean, like, for me, it's just if if if there's women who wanna have an abortion,

32:54Andy Warskithere's probably a reason for that, and I can see

32:58Andy Warskisee the overpopulation

33:00Andy Warskiof kids who are just traffic will be fucking more intense, you know.

33:05Andy WarskiI'm just kidding.

33:06Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. That's not my I with don't wanna stupid babies and stuff.

33:12Andy WarskiThat's not my reason why. But, yeah, I'll be back in just one second, then I'll I'll send the link out to to Buddy over here. Sorry. Just one sec.

33:22Andy WarskiBut, Jay, you can speak.

33:24Jay DyerYeah. I mean, you know, not to beat this on the ground, but,

33:29Jay Dyerone of the things that I was interested in talking to you about was the conception of the state and

33:35Jay Dyerthe idea that, like, the state is somehow, like, uniquely

33:40Jay Dyerthe source of man's problems when,

33:42Jay Dyeryou know, it could easily be just as oligarchical in another system that maybe is

33:48Jay Dyertrue capitalism. I mean, do you see true capitalism as just solely the market operating, or do you see it, like, as a wider philosophy

33:56Jay Dyerof just, of, like, competing power structures?

33:59Styxhexenhammer666True

34:00Styxhexenhammer666capitalism

34:01Styxhexenhammer666can be maintained only with competing power structures, in my opinion. That is, like, the very basis of capitalism is competition.

34:09Styxhexenhammer666It drives the prices down. It drives the wages up. It keeps everything moving smoothly.

34:13Styxhexenhammer666If something dies off, it gets replaced. Other people will replace it. It doesn't matter whether it's an individual or a group. The problem that I see is that governments end up,

34:24Styxhexenhammer666innately, it seems, centralizing

34:27Styxhexenhammer666these businesses,

34:28Styxhexenhammer666forming corporations that are monopolistic because these monopolies when a business has a really good idea, makes a lot of money, they inevitably are going to within a capitalistic system, and and there's nothing wrong with it, seek to maintain that power.

34:41Styxhexenhammer666They will attempt to usurp any government that's associated with the the system in which they exist.

34:47Styxhexenhammer666It's inevitable.

34:48Styxhexenhammer666That's not a problem so long as you have good trust busting and anti monopoly laws, and they're applied properly.

34:55Styxhexenhammer666The problem is that those rungs of government inevitably get stacked by those same wealthy individuals. I think one of the greatest sins

35:03Styxhexenhammer666of modern mankind within The United States is Citizens United.

35:07Styxhexenhammer666On this, I have to agree with literally the furthest left individuals in this country. It's one of the worst decisions we made,

35:14Styxhexenhammer666the formation of super PACs that are no longer beholden to any form of campaign laws other than they can't talk to a campaign

35:20Styxhexenhammer666is probably the worst thing that we've ever had as a country.

35:25Jay DyerWell, okay. I don't have a problem

35:27Jay Dyerwith that in principle either, but I guess I'm asking it, like, maybe a more broad historical question. I mean, if you look at the rise of capitalism,

35:36Jay Dyerright, out of the the neo feudal period into,

35:41Jay Dyeryou know, David Ricardo, Adam Smith, the early merchant class

35:45Jay Dyerthat wanted to rebel against the state, capitalism comes as a revolutionary

35:49Jay Dyerforce

35:50Jay Dyerto to try to get rid of, thrown, and altered. So it's a it's an inherently anti monarchical, anti state movement.

35:57Jay DyerBut what it then does is it erects the usury power of banking

36:01Jay Dyerto co op the state. And you can read Carroll Quigley's tragedy and hope, the famous geopolitical tome I've done a bunch of lectures on. You know, he talks about how

36:09Jay Dyerat the time of the enlightenment, the the the scientific revolution,

36:12Jay Dyerit was these big banking houses that were actually

36:15Jay Dyerusing usury,

36:17Jay Dyerusing

36:18Jay Dyercapital in an international scale to make these kinds of movements

36:22Jay Dyerto control the state. And so that's why I see actually if you're nationalistic,

36:27Jay Dyeryou have to also

36:28Jay Dyernot be completely capitalistic because capitalistic is inherently anti border.

36:34Jay DyerMarx himself was was for open borders. Now I know that you don't agree with that. I'm just saying that

36:39Styxhexenhammer666Marx Marx was an anti capitalist. Yeah.

36:41Jay DyerNo. He wasn't.

36:42Styxhexenhammer666Marx

36:43Styxhexenhammer666was a was a capitalist, you're saying?

36:46Jay DyerNo. No. No. I'm saying when

36:48Jay DyerI did undergrad and grad school, I studied under a guy from the Frankfurt School. So I have direct

36:53Jay DyerI have direct Marxistolic

36:54Jay Dyersuccession from the Frankfurt School. I'm not a Marxist, but no. Marx thought that that capitalism was just a necessary phase and that ultimately, just like libertarianism,

37:04Jay Dyerit would lead to,

37:06Jay Dyerthe withering away of the state.

37:09Styxhexenhammer666I I think the withering the withering away of a state is not necessary. You do need a state, but it has to counterbalance

37:15Styxhexenhammer666with private industry. Those private industries have to be made to counterbalance one another, and everything needs to be limited.

37:21Styxhexenhammer666The the constitution at its rudiment should have applied to private entities too.

37:26Styxhexenhammer666First first and fourth amendment, we see with big tech right now. We're having that discussion. Yeah.

37:30Andy WarskiI wanna say I didn't fuck up the camera. It's I invited in Buddy here, so I'm gonna keep it on this camera just in case.

37:38Andy WarskiWhat's up, stoner logic? How you doing?

37:41Stoner LogicHey. What's up, Andy?

37:42Andy WarskiHow you doing,

37:43Stoner Logicman? Talk to you. Yeah. You as well.

37:44Andy WarskiThanks for being on.

37:46Stoner LogicAndy Sticks, huge fans of both of you guys. Jay,

37:51Stoner LogicI

37:51Jay DyerNot so much a fan. That's alright.

37:54Stoner LogicI'm just not clued into you too much yet.

37:58Stoner LogicBut I did really like your conversation that you had with Syrian girl the other day. That was awesome.

38:04Jay DyerYeah, man.

38:05Stoner LogicThank

38:05Jay Dyeryou. I I hit her yeah. That was cool. Thanks.

38:09Stoner LogicSo I I think I missed a few minutes.

38:13Stoner LogicLet's see. As far as, abortion goes, I'm probably,

38:18Stoner Logicpretty close to where sticks is.

38:21Stoner LogicI

38:22Stoner Logicdon't oppose it politically,

38:24Stoner Logicbut I don't agree with it personally.

38:29Styxhexenhammer666And that's perfectly sensible.

38:33Stoner LogicOkay. And, just something you said just a minute ago. It sounded like you were saying that you think that we need a state sticks.

38:40Styxhexenhammer666I'm not an ANC cap. I'm a monarchist. I believe that a state is necessary as an organizational central principle, but it has to be far more constrained. The state that we formed as The US could have been perfect,

38:51Styxhexenhammer666but the constitution should have been five or six amendments longer.

38:55Styxhexenhammer666And it should have been much much more easy to interpret by people who have too much time on their hands, aka the supreme court.

39:03Stoner LogicOkay.

39:04Stoner LogicWell, I

39:05Stoner Logicdisagree. I don't think that we need governments at all.

39:10Stoner LogicSo you specifically,

39:12Stoner Logicyou're saying that you think that we need governments to organize people then?

39:16Styxhexenhammer666I think that some form of organization is necessary, but the thing is with the principle of counterbalancing

39:22Styxhexenhammer666powers against one another to prevent them from becoming tyrannical,

39:25Styxhexenhammer666You can't just have private entities. You also have to have a public entity, a government. That government needs to be very, very limited, though. The the like, the second amendment shouldn't be so ambiguous. Now you and I probably agree that it protects all firearms in the hands of private citizens. The militia is the citizens, but we've been having a debate for a century and a fucking half over this concept because people are dumb. The problem is that there are too many dumb people in society, and so there have to be counterbalancing

39:54Styxhexenhammer666poles of power to make sure that they don't get abused by one power or another. That's basically what I'm saying.

40:02Stoner LogicOkay. Well,

40:03Stoner LogicI pretty much look at it,

40:06Stoner Logiclike, anything

40:08Stoner Logicthat somebody thinks that is

40:10Stoner Logicneeded to be provided by the government

40:13Stoner Logicis

40:14Stoner Logicsomething that can be provided by people.

40:18Stoner LogicAnd

40:19Stoner LogicI I I

40:21Stoner Logictend to,

40:22Stoner Logicsay to people that,

40:25Stoner Logicanything that the government does, people can do because the government is just people.

40:32Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. It is. It's just that you've that you've got a little bit of taxpayer funding for a central organization that hopefully

40:38Styxhexenhammer666is very, very small. But the thing is you can constrain it in a constitutional sense. If you've got a constitutional republic,

40:45Styxhexenhammer666you're capable of making that government much, much smaller than ours, and we've got the biggest government budget in the world. Well, that shouldn't be. We're also the only true

40:55Styxhexenhammer666constitutional republic at this point. We shouldn't be operating this way. Unfortunately, in the wake of the second world war with mutually assured destruction, our government went haywire

41:05Styxhexenhammer666with paranoia and propaganda, and we we essentially became the USSR.

41:10Styxhexenhammer666That's what I see as the problem. We'll see if we can put the genie back in the bottle, I guess.

41:15Stoner LogicOkay.

41:16Stoner LogicWell,

41:17Stoner LogicI I do like,

41:19Stoner Logicthe idea of

41:21Stoner Logicmaking government smaller. I would I would rather that it didn't exist at all. I mean,

41:26Stoner Logicwe

41:26Styxhexenhammer666In a perfect world. Yeah.

41:28Stoner LogicYeah.

41:30Stoner LogicBut

41:31Stoner Logicsince other countries do have governments, I I see that it

41:36Stoner Logicwould be kind of a bad idea for us to remove ours

41:40Stoner Logicwhile other countries have theirs in place,

41:43Stoner Logicbut, I would rather have global anarchism.

41:47Styxhexenhammer666If if it could be instituted worldwide that there would be no states at all, no power structures at all, and people could agree 100%

41:55Styxhexenhammer666on that. It would be the best of all worlds, but that's utopianism.

41:59Styxhexenhammer666Mhmm.

41:59Jay DyerIt's it

41:59Styxhexenhammer666it will never actually happen. The it's the same problem communism runs into. Communism sounds great until you actually try to implement it, then it stops working. The same is true of the ancap ideology. I've I've sparred with mall news people before on this. He believes in a stateless society. I don't think that it can work. I believe in monarchism.

42:18Styxhexenhammer666I simply want to limit government a lot more than it is currently

42:22Styxhexenhammer666and shrink it to maybe one tenth its current size.

42:25Styxhexenhammer666I think that's acceptable. Yes. It technically violates the NAP.

42:30Styxhexenhammer666Is it preferable to what we have now worldwide?

42:32Styxhexenhammer666Absolutely.

42:34Jay DyerDid you I I believe in monarchism,

42:36Jay Dyernot menarchism.

42:37Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. I think that's a terrible idea.

42:40Stoner LogicI actually think that

42:43Stoner Logicanarchism

42:43Stoner Logicis something that'll be an inevitability,

42:48Stoner Logicthat eventually people will

42:50Stoner Logicjust say, this is stupid. I don't need somebody to tell me what to do and take my money.

42:56Jay DyerNo. No. They won't.

42:57Styxhexenhammer666They they they will, but the problem is that a lot of people, they do need some sort of order. I hate to say it, but if someone is intelligent,

43:06Styxhexenhammer666they don't ultimately if someone is intelligent and not self destructive,

43:10Styxhexenhammer666they don't need government to tell them what to do. They could skirt all laws because they're never gonna break any laws that are gonna lead to them being harmed.

43:16Styxhexenhammer666They're they're not going to drive drunk because they know it's a bad idea. I might hit a tree. But someone who's a moron probably will. Even in a legal system that already bans it, they do these things. All of those vices would just be multiplied if you had an end cap society. That's I believe that. Well, what private corporation is gonna police it? Well, there's gonna be a private corporation to police the roads, then what's the difference? They can just abuse you more. They're not even constrained by a constitution. That's why I'm not an ant cap.

43:44Stoner LogicWell, I wouldn't say that a private corporation would need to police people's behavior. I'd I'd say that individuals

43:52Stoner Logiccould do that.

43:53Styxhexenhammer666That's vigilantism.

43:55Styxhexenhammer666So you've got mob rule. That turns into the most hardcore form of authoritarianism.

43:59Styxhexenhammer666That's where monarchism comes from. That's where the most severe tyrannies originally,

44:04Styxhexenhammer666mankind early on thousands of years ago didn't have government.

44:07Styxhexenhammer666They got together loosely in tribes, but they were completely

44:11Styxhexenhammer666authoritarian. The dude with the biggest club and the biggest muscles run ran the fucking drive. Nobody else is gonna tell him what to do. He's totally unconstrained.

44:20Styxhexenhammer666There's no competing power structure. Not one person. Until until they go to war,

44:25Styxhexenhammer666and then maybe he gets killed. But then he just gets replaced by some other berserker.

44:29Stoner LogicWell, no one person is going to be able to stand up to the biggest and strongest. But, you know, if, like, there's a couple of people and they say, hey. We don't like how this guy is ruling.

44:41Stoner LogicWe'd rather not be ruled. Why don't the two of us get together together and kill this guy?

44:45Styxhexenhammer666You yeah. You just invented direct democracy,

44:48Styxhexenhammer666aka mob rule. That's the problem. That's exactly what Plato talked about. The the strong man mentality devolves.

44:54Styxhexenhammer666You have the democracy. You have the dude. He's the strongest.

44:57Styxhexenhammer666He's good at what he does. He's really, really good at beating that mammoth over the head. He rules the roost. A bunch of people get together and say, we're we're tired of him taking extra food. Who do we why do we care? They kill him off. They probably eat him in the process. Now you've got a democracy,

45:12Styxhexenhammer666and then it devolves into an oligarchy because 51%

45:16Styxhexenhammer666of those people get together.

45:18Styxhexenhammer666And then they form the council, and they say, oh, I'm just gonna vote to take away everything from everyone else. And at the end, you get a tyranny because then that devolves even further and someone takes control and they start promising to that 49%,

45:30Styxhexenhammer666hey. I can I can alleviate all your problems? Just give me more power. And meanwhile, they're going behind the backs of the little people and talking to a few people on that council too, and they're saying, hey. Don't worry about it too much. I'll spare you.

45:43Styxhexenhammer666We're just gonna kill these other dudes off. You can have, you know, part of their estates, and I'll give some crumbs to the little people, and you've got a tyranny. And then eventually,

45:50Styxhexenhammer666another democracy arises.

45:52Styxhexenhammer666Someone comes along and beans them all in the head, and the whole thing starts over again. The republic is meant to defeat this process.

45:59Styxhexenhammer666It has to have capitalism. It needs to have capitalism.

46:03Jay DyerYeah. The republic is also the model for all Soviet systems.

46:07Jay DyerThe United Soviet Socialist Republic is one of the many attempts to model a completely reason rational

46:14Jay Dyeridealistic society into to

46:17Jay Dyerbring it into existence. America was one of those experiments as well. So all of these enlightenment rationalist republic experiments

46:23Jay Dyerhave been tried, and they all fail really quickly. They fall right into total despotism.

46:29Jay DyerAnd ironically,

46:30Jay Dyerdid you know that, as Hans Hermann Happe has shown, you actually had less taxation under monarchs than you have under democratic republics because democratic republics are inherently tyrannical. That's what even Plato talked about democratic republics being inherently tyrannical because they're controlled by the oligarchical money power. So the response of of anarchism is merely one dialectical,

46:54Jay Dyerphony position

46:56Jay Dyerthat's set against something like collectivism.

46:58Jay DyerAnd both of those positions are wrong because man is always going to need some collective aspect and some individualistic

47:04Jay Dyeraspect. So until you have a balance between the one and the many, you're just gonna fall into, in my view, dialectical

47:10Jay Dyertensions, which are manipulated.

47:12Jay DyerHegel wrote about this. So you're not gonna get anarchism because most people are never going to be self governing. You're always gonna have a large portion of the population that cannot self govern. And to to to think that that's gonna happen globally is just a pure idealism.

47:27Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. Unfortunately,

47:28Styxhexenhammer666nine out of 10 people need some form of governance. For the rest of them, for the rest of the people, yeah, they're gonna have to sacrifice in order to live in a society where nine tenths of their neighbors aren't starving or trying to kill them.

47:40Styxhexenhammer666That's

47:41Styxhexenhammer666that's, again, men a monarchism of what where I differ from Jay, I think. I simply think that we could have an eternal republic, a constitutional republic like we have now, if we simply constrained it far more. All we have to do is constrain government more and constrain certain private endeavors, corporations

47:59Styxhexenhammer666from abusing people due to the nature of modern human communications.

48:03Styxhexenhammer666If we can achieve that, I think we could have a thousand years of peace and prosperity very, very easily minus maybe a demographic crisis here and there.

48:12Stoner LogicWell, in regards to what you said earlier, I I think that you were jumping to some conclusions about how you think that things would play out.

48:22Stoner LogicNot that I think that, it was,

48:25Stoner Logicunjustified.

48:26Stoner LogicI'm sure that,

48:28Stoner Logichistorically,

48:29Stoner Logicit's

48:30Stoner Logichow it's happened before. But

48:33Stoner Logicif

48:33Stoner Logicthe, you know, the guy with the biggest club or whatever,

48:38Stoner Logicif couple of guys got together and said, we don't wanna be ruled over, we're killing him. I don't see why it that would have to turn into a democracy after that. Why we can't just take out the ruler and be like, good. The ruler's gone. Now we can rule ourselves.

48:52Styxhexenhammer666Because why was there a ruler in the first place? It's because it's inevitable. There's going to be a power structure in place. You just have to determine what form it is. If you've got anarchism,

49:01Styxhexenhammer666what you've really got is mob rule. You've you've just literally described the answer to your own dilemma, which is that several other people got together and killed the the dude with the big club. The dude with the big club didn't need to be elected. He simply was the strongest.

49:15Styxhexenhammer666He didn't even necessarily

49:16Styxhexenhammer666appoint himself the leader of anything. He simply innately leads because he is the strongest. He's the best at killing.

49:23Styxhexenhammer666He's he's the best at fighting. It took two or three people to take him down. Those people now have made that decision. They have formed a government by doing so. They have made themselves arbiter over life and death for this other individual because they get tired of him. Then they're you no longer have our anarchy at all.

49:40Andy WarskiAlright. Well,

49:42Andy Warskiwe'll move on from

49:44Andy Warskithis, but thanks for hopping on, dude.

49:47Stoner LogicOkay. And, hey, I just

49:48Andy Warskiwanted yeah. Say

49:51Stoner LogicMy YouTube channel is called Radio Freedom.

49:56Stoner LogicAnd, also,

49:58Stoner LogicI got on by offering to suck Andy's dick. So if anybody else wants to get on, just just offer him a blow job, and he'll put you right on the show.

50:06Andy WarskiI I have a

50:06Jay Dyera better form of government.

50:08Styxhexenhammer666You're

50:08Styxhexenhammer666supposed to offer to spoon him.

50:11Stoner LogicOh, yeah. I'll spoon and thank you all night long, Andy.

50:14Andy WarskiOh, sounds good, man. I appreciate it.

50:16Jay DyerI wanna set up a cockocracy.

50:19Jay DyerAlright,

50:22Andy Warskison of logic. Thanks for hopping on, dude.

50:24Stoner LogicAlright. Thanks.

50:24Styxhexenhammer666Have a good night, man.

50:25Stoner LogicAlright. Peace,

50:26Styxhexenhammer666dude.

50:28Styxhexenhammer666Without a have 10 in the in the cockocracy,

50:31Styxhexenhammer666you'll have 10.2

50:32Styxhexenhammer666people on your council.

50:34Andy WarskiI was I was

50:34Styxhexenhammer666One of them is a paraplegic midget with no legs.

50:38Andy WarskiI was afraid for one second.

50:41Andy WarskiHe was like, one more thing, and I switched the camera right to me. I'm like, no. No. No. Hang on. Hang on. Yeah.

50:47Andy WarskiLike, one more thing. Here's my dick.

50:50Andy WarskiYep. He did did talk about dicks for a second. So

50:53Andy Warskiyeah. And hang on. There was one

50:55Styxhexenhammer666Limited state for you, Andy.

50:57Andy WarskiThere's

50:59Andy Warskione question here. Tactical

51:01Andy Warskiboomerism

51:03Andy Warskifor 15. Thanks so much, man. I'd love to hear Jay and Stick's take on symbology

51:08Andy Warskiof the Vatican Audience Hall and resurrection sculpture.

51:12Andy WarskiWhat is the significance of the serpent here?

51:16Andy WarskiIs this really a nuclear blast?

51:18Andy WarskiAlso, why?

51:20Styxhexenhammer666Wait. Do you mean that giant statue that Pope occasionally sits in front of that has all the, like, the deformed angels and stuff? Yeah. Yeah.

51:28Styxhexenhammer666I would say that that's evidence that the Vatican has more money than sense.

51:33Styxhexenhammer666They're into some they it's just some weird postmodern art bullshit.

51:37Jay DyerYeah. It's all good. I don't think it's a nuke blast. I think it does signify the the Vatican's since especially since Vatic II, their acceptance of pretty rabid liberalism and postmodernism.

51:48Jay DyerSo it's reflected in the architecture and the art all the time.

51:51Styxhexenhammer666No. Literally, their acceptance of sin according to their own prior

51:55Styxhexenhammer666prior views.

51:57Jay DyerYeah. Absolutely.

52:00Andy WarskiA shaft a nationalist for £5.

52:03Andy WarskiI'm genuinely curious.

52:06Andy WarskiWhy don't you wear a shirt, Styx? Also, if you do decide to wear a shirt, make it a nice one, not a gay one like Jay's.

52:16Styxhexenhammer666I I I actually want like a Hawaii your shirt Jay is kinda like Hawaiian print, isn't it?

52:21Jay DyerYeah. It's it's it's boomer. It's boomer tactical

52:24Jay Dyeris what I'm doing here.

52:26Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. Yeah. If it were a lighter shade of blue, it would look a lot like, you know, Tommy Versetti mode.

52:32Jay DyerExactly.

52:32Styxhexenhammer666Time for time for some white city.

52:34Styxhexenhammer666That that that I would wear. I would wear like a white eighties vintage leisure suit or something like that, and I'll probably do that at some point just to show that I can wear a shirt.

52:45Styxhexenhammer666But no. No. No time soon.

52:48Andy WarskiKevin sorry. Go ahead.

52:50Jay DyerIs it okay if I do this?

52:52Andy WarskiOr Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

52:55Styxhexenhammer666Andy's gonna Andy's gonna do that too, and, you know, we'll all be shirtless.

52:58Jay DyerIt's gonna be the cockocracy for real. Exactly.

53:01Andy WarskiActually, did that on Kumite on on Friday. I don't know if you saw that sticks where

53:06Andy WarskiI went shirtless and put mayo all

53:09Andy Warskiover my body. Because we had someone on called the Mayo King who does that. Like, that's what he eats one gallon of mayo a day by scooping it out, and he

53:17Jay Dyerjust Oh, you can't be

53:18Styxhexenhammer666sick. He couldn't survive.

53:20Andy WarskiHe's he's diabetic as well.

53:22Andy WarskiOh. He says that his doctor handed him some pills that prevent him from dying, so he's allowed to do it. And I warned him. I I warned him. What? Yeah. Oh, dude. Yo. It's it's absolutely insane.

53:36Andy WarskiKevin

53:37Andy Warskilayered for five. If women are allowed to a jettison responsibility

53:42Andy Warskifor taking care of a child after pregnancy,

53:46Andy Warskishould men be allowed to as well? It's only fair. Right?

53:51Styxhexenhammer666I I yeah. Absolutely. If a male doesn't wanna be involved with that and the female wants to have the child, she should be able to yeah. He should be able to forfeit that,

54:00Styxhexenhammer666forfeit involvement. And in the process, he shouldn't have to pay any sort of

54:05Styxhexenhammer666money for it.

54:06Styxhexenhammer666It's her it's her responsibility. She's the one that chose to have it.

54:12Andy WarskiDeplorabology

54:13Andy Warskifor two. Abortion is how I prepare my

54:18Andy Warskia dinner. Wow. I fucked up that punchline. I'm sorry, dude. I said it in the my dinner.

54:23Andy WarskiI'm Ortlund Keefrom for 200 NOK. Don't trust anyone.

54:29Andy WarskiAnd deploretic Wait.

54:30Styxhexenhammer666$202,100

54:31Styxhexenhammer666NOK?

54:31Andy WarskiYeah. I think that's $24.

54:34Andy WarskiOh. Around there.

54:37Andy WarskiA deplorabology

54:38Andy Warskifor 5. What is the best argument for cannibalism?

54:44Styxhexenhammer666Waste not want not.

54:47Jay DyerSticks is beautiful flesh.

54:52Andy WarskiAnd Zero the hero says,

54:54Andy Warskininety nine percent of abortions are not medical

54:57Andy Warskiemergencies

54:58Andy Warskior rape,

55:00Andy Warskiwhich I'd say so. Right?

55:02Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. It might not be ninety nine percent, but, yeah, it's most of them.

55:06Andy WarskiI I know a chick, and this is, like, for real,

55:09Andy Warskiwho's had seven abortions.

55:12Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. I

55:13Styxhexenhammer666know I know several I know several women that have had abortions, and, you know, it's not a big thing. I don't think about it much.

55:19Andy WarskiBut seven?

55:20Styxhexenhammer666I just don't I just don't give a shit.

55:21Andy WarskiLike, but seven? Like, that's yo. After, let's say,

55:26Andy Warskithree, it's like, alright. Let's figure this out. You know?

55:29Styxhexenhammer666At that point, it is a little weird. That's that's using it as a form of birth control, which you explicitly

55:35Styxhexenhammer666you're not supposed to do. You end up sterile eventually. You won't have to have any more abortions because you won't be able to have a child.

55:42Andy WarskiI was always saying like, I made a joke, to her saying she has one of those subway cards after the

55:49Andy Warskiseventh

55:50Andy Warskiabortion,

55:50Andy Warskiafter stamping the eighth ones for free.

55:53Andy WarskiShe didn't find that funny, by the way. I'm just

55:56Stoner LogicOh my god.

55:57Andy WarskiI'm just seeing if we have any

55:59Andy Warskiother questions for you sticks here.

56:03Andy WarskiI'll keep looking right here.

56:06Andy WarskiOkay. Here's one. A spooky weeb trash for ten. I'm pro choice, but I wouldn't recommend

56:12Andy Warskifor the majority of the time,

56:14Andy Warskibut wouldn't recommend for the majority of the time. If a woman has an abortion,

56:18Andy Warskishe'll

56:19Andy Warskimore likely

56:21Andy Warskishe's most likely likely to kill herself and she'll never get over it. Abortion is mostly a black issue too.

56:29Andy WarskiThat's all all about the

56:30Styxhexenhammer666I I I I don't know that it causes everyone to be cut up. Definitely,

56:35Styxhexenhammer666sometimes it can. But a person's gotta be able to make their own decisions, and that's a mistake or or a good thing depending on the person, but they've got to be able to make that. They can be informed.

56:46Styxhexenhammer666You can educate them. You can tell them you do or do not support their decision, but it's not your right to force them into that position.

56:53Styxhexenhammer666And using a government paying government to, you know, put someone in jail for making a decision is, I I argue, worse morally.

57:03Andy WarskiSomeone in the chat said, I'm a failed abortion. That's not that's not nice.

57:08Styxhexenhammer666May maybe maybe they mean that literally.

57:10Andy WarskiYeah.

57:13Andy WarskiThat

57:14Andy Warskibut that dude, the ANCAP,

57:16Andy Warskilike, not having

57:18Andy Warskianyone run anything, that's like, what? No police as well? Does that is that what it, like, it means as well?

57:25Styxhexenhammer666I guess the left wing will support that.

57:28Andy WarskiThat is

57:29Andy Warskidumb.

57:31Andy WarskiThat's absolute

57:32Andy Warskiyou guys were very polite for for for what that was because

57:38Andy WarskiI don't know. I can't like, I don't see the the logic in that at all.

57:42Andy WarskiThat's

57:43Styxhexenhammer666I think the idea generally is to privatize a lot of those services. Like like, instead of having a government administer them, you'd have a business or or instead of police, you'd have people policing their own communities.

57:55Styxhexenhammer666The problem that you run into, of course, is mob justice. You know, they instead of putting someone on trial, someone's that they just don't like, they decide to hang them or something. And it would be sort of like the sale of witch trials, I think, after a while.

58:08Andy WarskiYeah. That's rough.

58:09Jay DyerHey. Yeah. Go ahead. Happy days saying he wants to debate. He says, I will debate an anarchist or sticks on abortion.

58:17Jay DyerA shameful disprey.

58:19Jay DyerHe should be able to he should be able to spell if he's gonna come debate.

58:22Styxhexenhammer666I think he's That's a meme. Yeah. Yeah. That's on purpose.

58:25Andy WarskiOh. That's like Asian.

58:26Jay DyerI'm a I'm a I'm a boomer. I don't know freaking mean.

58:28Andy WarskiYo.

58:30Andy WarskiHappy days.

58:31Andy WarskiSend me your, like, Twitter, by the way.

58:34Styxhexenhammer666I won't be able to debate because I'm actually gonna hop off.

58:37Andy WarskiYeah. Yeah. No worries, dude. That's fine.

58:40Andy WarskiYeah, man.

58:40Jay DyerI'll stand up

58:41Jay Dyerfor sticks. I'll I'll do the Styx visit.

58:43Styxhexenhammer666By by the way, can I read one out here with from big a socks?

58:47Andy WarskiSure.

58:47Styxhexenhammer666Can you just pause it? When Styx is elected god emperor of Vermont, he better level the hole that is White River Junction. I absolutely agree.

58:54Styxhexenhammer666It it is. It is the armpit of Lebanon,

58:58Styxhexenhammer666which is over in New Hampshire.

58:59Styxhexenhammer666It's terrible.

59:01Jay DyerHey, Sticks. If you were god emperor, what would the spice be? Are you a Dune fan?

59:07Styxhexenhammer666What?

59:08Styxhexenhammer666Are you a Dune fan?

59:09Styxhexenhammer666Dune the movie?

59:11Jay DyerOr the novel? Yeah. You know, the god emperor idea. And they have the spice, which is kind of the drug of that universe.

59:16Styxhexenhammer666I I saw it years ago, but I don't remember much about it because I was a little kid. I actually I've gotta I've gotta get around.

59:22Jay DyerWhat would the drug be of the of the the Styx God emperor world?

59:27Styxhexenhammer666Oh, it's it's a close tie between caffeine and alcohol.

59:31Jay DyerI can go with that. Yeah.

59:33Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. Maybe crack. Crack is okay.

59:35Andy WarskiShe has some heroin, whatever.

59:37Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. Just take

59:39Styxhexenhammer666a needle once in a while. Yeah.

59:41Styxhexenhammer666Make make non addictive heroin and then that'll be the drug.

59:44Andy WarskiIs there anything you wanna promote before you head out? But by the way, like everyone, his links are down there so you could check that out. But anything you have planned for for the future sticks?

59:55Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. Pretty soon on the Bit Shoot and Steam It channels, there will be an exclusive return to the Antheagen series. It's not gonna be on YouTube because YouTube will just ban me if I put it on here. Awesome. They don't they don't want they don't want Antheagenic

1:00:08Styxhexenhammer666education. They don't want people to have harm reduction. Reduction. What can I say?

1:00:12Andy WarskiAlright. Perfect, dude. Well, thanks for hopping on, man. It's been nice to chat with you.

1:00:17Styxhexenhammer666Yeah. It was fun. Have a good night, y'all.

1:00:19Andy WarskiYeah, man. Peace out, Sticks.