Appeal: framework objection
From FULL SAVAGE DEBATE: Jay Dyer Vs Indiana Brunner: Protestant Bible Wrong???.
- #11051:12:28overturned Jay Dyer epainos: framework objection (+1)
The council overturned the call, so no points were earned.
“In the Orthodox Church, there's more flexibility here because we're not proponents of sola scriptura.”
Diogenes: Read blind, without being shown any call on this passage. Jay names the presupposition underlying the whole canon-list exercise, that a completely closed, invariant list is required for the canon to be authoritative, and denies that this presupposition binds his own (non-sola-scriptura) framework, since Orthodoxy locates final authority in the ongoing conciliar/traditional process rather than in a uniquely bounded text. This correctly identifies what must be settled first (whether sola scriptura's requirement of an exact fixed canon is itself justified) rather than simply declining to engage with the canon-list data he has just walked through.- Aristotle overturn: On the record: S0 has held since the opening that Orthodox tradition, not sola scriptura, governs authority and the canon, and this line restates that view faithfully, but it is delivered as monologue after S1 has left, not as a rebuttal within a live exchange. By 72:28, S1 (Indiana Brunner) had already left the call (confirmed at 58:56, "Did Indiana get booted? Yep"), and this passage is part of Jay Dyer's solo monologue walking through Lee McDonald's canon-list slides for the audience, with only the brief presence of moderator Mike (not scored, not an opponent on this question) intervening. The rubric bars judging monologue delivered with no opponent present to answer it, however sound or unsound the reasoning; a framework objection requires a live exchange in which the presupposition is named against a question actually being pressed by an opponent on the floor, and no such opponent is present here.
- Socrates overturn: Read blind, found nothing worth calling. By 72:28 Indiana Brunner has already been dropped from the call (confirmed at 59:02, "Did Indiana get booted? Yep"), and S0 is walking solo through Lee McDonald's canon lists with no opponent on the floor to answer or contest this claim. Per the floor rule, a monologue with nobody present to respond is not judged, however strong or weak its reasoning.
- Plato overturn: On the record: Jay Dyer held throughout that Orthodoxy's canon rests on conciliar/traditional authority rather than sola scriptura's demand for a fixed closed list; this line restates that position but is delivered as solo monologue after Indiana had left the floor. By 72:28 Indiana had already been booted ([58:56]-[59:04]) and Mike, who briefly joined, had already said he was leaving ([61:59]) before this slide monologue began. The floor rule bars judging a monologue with no opponent present to answer it, regardless of merit.
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