Appeal: direct answer
From Religion Debate: Islam vs Christianity.
- #110758:50upheld Sam Shamoun epainos: direct answer (+2)
The council upheld the call: Sam Shamoun earned 2 points.
“Unlike the examples of your hands and feet, the Surahs are supposed to be uncreated and eternal. So you still live with the dilemma that the chapters of the Quran, uncreated, eternal, will be speaking with God.”
Diogenes: He finally names the exact disanalogy his case needed — created hands versus uncreated suras — and concedes the mindlessness point while showing the problem survives without it.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: This is a direct continuation of S3's standing thesis (uncreated Qur'an entails distinct eternal entities) and directly answers the specific challenge Daniel had posed with his hands/feet analogy. Sam identifies the precise disanalogy his argument needs (hands/feet are created, but the suras are claimed uncreated/eternal), directly engaging Daniel's counterexample rather than ignoring it, and even grants the "mindless" point arguendo while showing the underlying problem persists.
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "direct answer". Sam directly re-engages Daniel's hands-and-feet counter-example and identifies the key disanalogy that undercuts it: hands and feet are created parts of a person, whereas the Qur'an is held to be uncreated and eternal, which is precisely the metaphysical feature driving his original dilemma about a distinct eternal entity interacting with Allah. This keeps the argument focused on the actual point in dispute rather than letting the analogy stand unexamined.
- Plato uphold: On the record: S3's sustained internal-critique method rests on the uncreated Qur'an entailing a distinct eternal entity; this quote names the precise disanalogy (created hands vs. uncreated suras) that has anchored his argument since the opening, consistent with his position throughout. This directly answers Daniel's hands/feet counterexample by conceding the mindlessness point and isolating the actual disanalogy (uncreated vs. created), which is substantive engagement consistent with Sam's declared framework throughout the debate.
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