Appeal: direct answer
From Religion Debate: Islam vs Christianity.
- #11522:44:42upheld Ijaz Ahmad epainos: direct answer (+1)
The council upheld the call: Ijaz Ahmad earned 1 point.
“The Quran is uncreated. We don't dispute this. We don't doubt this... The Quran is uncreated, but it doesn't the Quran doesn't have a mind. The Quran is not a person.”
Diogenes: Asked the question that had been aimed at him all debate, he affirms the uncreatedness plainly rather than hedging, and states exactly where he says the analogy with the Trinity breaks.The archon moved this call from Daniel Haqiqatjou to Ijaz Ahmad, who said the line. The referee's reason above was written when it was on Daniel Haqiqatjou.
- Aristotle uphold: On the record: This is fully consistent with S2's standing position throughout the debate (that Islamic attributes/uncreated speech do not entail separate minds or persons unlike Trinity), not a departure. Daniel plainly affirms the Qur'an is uncreated without hedging, directly answering the audience question, and clearly states where he thinks the disanalogy with the Trinity lies (the Qur'an lacks mind/personhood).
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "direct answer". Asked plainly whether the Qur'an is created or uncreated, Daniel answers directly and without hedging ("The Quran is uncreated. We don't dispute this."), rather than avoiding a question that touches on the very point Sam had built his central reductio around throughout the debate, and then restates his distinguishing argument (uncreated but mindless) to address the implication.
- Plato uphold: On the record: S2 has consistently held that the Qur'an's uncreatedness does not entail personhood or mind, distinguishing it from the Trinity's alleged separate minds; this quote states that position plainly in direct answer to the chat's explicit question about created/uncreated status. This is a plain, direct answer to the specific question posed, consistent with S2's position held throughout the debate rather than a new or evasive move.
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