Appeal: fallacy spotted
From Jay Dyer vs 2 Freemason Christians.
- #12522:01:52upheld Jay Dyer epainos: fallacy spotted (+1)
The council upheld the call: Jay Dyer earned 1 point.
“You make the covenant with him in his church, his body. So it's not your it's a false either or to say that it's just you and Jesus.”
Diogenes: He names the disjunction smuggled into the question — covenant with Christ or with a church body — and denies that the two are alternatives on his own ecclesiology.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: S1 has held throughout the debate that historic conciliar/ecclesial authority is inseparable from Christian faith (per his opening on synodal/conciliar norms); this response applies that same standing ecclesiology to reject the audience member's false dichotomy, not a new position. Jay explicitly names the fallacy embedded in the questioner's framing — that a covenant with Jesus and a covenant with his church are mutually exclusive — and calls it "a false either or," correctly identifying a false dilemma in the question as posed, then resolves it via his ecclesiology (one Lord, one faith, one body).
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "fallacy spotted". The questioner's framing treated an individual covenant with Jesus and membership in his corporate body (the church) as opposed, mutually exclusive things. Jay correctly names this as a false either/or and dissolves it by pointing out the covenant with Christ is made precisely within his body, the church, rather than choosing one horn over the other.
- Plato uphold: On the record: S1 has held since the opening that "one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" and conciliar/tradition-based ecclesiology define normative Christianity; this response is a direct application of that standing framework, not a new position. The questioner posed a covenant-with-Jesus-versus-covenant-with-a-church-body dichotomy; Jay correctly identifies this as a false either/or and explains, from his own stated ecclesiology, that the covenant with Christ is made within and through his body (the Church), so the two are not exclusive alternatives. This is an accurate spotting of a false dilemma embedded in the question.
Appeal this callout
Appeals come only from the debaters themselves. Sign in with Google to start; you'll then prove which debater you are, once.