Appeal: evidence
From Jay Dyer vs Pastor P Debate Orthodoxy vs Protestantism, Sola Scriptura and Church History.
- #132940:45upheld Jay Dyer epainos: evidence (+1)
The council upheld the call: Jay Dyer earned 1 point.
“Describes antiphonal singing. That's liturgy. He describes vestments. He describes an altar. He describes incense being offered by the saints in heaven.”
Diogenes: Against the claim that Revelation's heavenly worship is not liturgy, he lists specific features of the text — the source his opponent accepts as decisive — rather than restating the assertion.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: Jay Dyer's opening and consistent method is to argue from the text of scripture itself that apostolic liturgical tradition is warranted; this line is a direct continuation of that method, not a departure, applying it to the specific dispute over Revelation's heavenly worship. Jay is contesting Pastor P's claim that Revelation depicts mere "worship" rather than liturgy, and instead of simply restating his assertion he points to specific, checkable textual details (antiphonal singing, vestments, altar, incense) in the shared source text both debaters treat as authoritative — this is citing evidence rather than bare assertion.
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "evidence". Rather than merely asserting that heavenly worship in Revelation is liturgical, Jay points to specific, checkable textual details (antiphonal singing, vestments, an altar, incense offered by the saints) to substantiate the claim against Pastor P's bare denial ("I'm not sure that that's liturgy"). This ties the abstract claim to concrete textual evidence the audience can verify for themselves.
- Plato uphold: On the record: S0 has held since his opening statement that apostolic liturgical worship is grounded in specific scriptural and patristic texts rather than assertion alone (citing Hebrews 13, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, etc.), and this callout is consistent with that method, applying it here to Revelation's description of heavenly worship. Jay is not merely restating his claim that heaven has liturgy; he lists specific, checkable textual details (antiphonal singing, vestments, an altar, incense offered) drawn from the book of Revelation — a text both parties accept as authoritative — to substantiate the claim against Pastor P's assertion that Revelation's heavenly worship isn't liturgy. This is a proper instance of citing checkable textual evidence rather than bare assertion.
Appeal this callout
Appeals come only from the debaters themselves. Sign in with Google to start; you'll then prove which debater you are, once.