Appeal: appeal to popularity
From Jay Dyer vs Pastor P Debate Orthodoxy vs Protestantism, Sola Scriptura and Church History.
- #133846:36upheld Pastor P psogos: appeal to popularity (+2)
The council upheld the call: Pastor P gave away 2 points.
“You cannot deny the blessing of God on England and on The United States and around the world where just carved [God's] truth. Where the where the King James version has been distributed. Alright. It's God's blessing. Can't deny it.” quote corrected
Diogenes: Worldly spread and national success are offered as proof that God endorsed his translation and therefore his position, which is an argument from outcome and popularity rather than from anything in dispute.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: Pastor P's declared and repeated method for defending his particular textual tradition (Erasmus's Textus Receptus via Luther and the King James translators) throughout this stretch of the debate is to point to its historical spread and national "blessing" as self-evident proof of correctness rather than to argue the manuscript question itself; this line is a clear, central instance of that same standing (and repeatedly criticized) pattern, not an isolated slip. Pastor P explicitly argues that the geographic and national spread of the King James translation ("carved [God's] truth... where the King James version has been distributed") cannot be denied as proof of "God's blessing," i.e., that widespread adoption and worldly success demonstrate divine endorsement and hence correctness — a straightforward appeal to popularity/success substituting for the actual question of manuscript and canonical basis. This is the same move this bench has already found fallacious moments later when Jay names it directly ("it's only blessings if your position is correct, and that's the thing in question," upheld at 46:54) and turns it back on him via antistrephon (47:08, upheld) by noting the Byzantine/Orthodox church equally "preserved" the underlying text.
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "appeal to popularity". Pastor P treats the wide distribution and influence of the King James Bible across England, America, and "around the world" as itself proof that it carries "God's blessing" and, by extension, that it is the correct text/canon — "You cannot deny... it's God's blessing. Can't deny it." Popularity and reach are not evidence of doctrinal or textual correctness; Jay makes essentially this point moments later ("It's only blessings if your position is correct... that's the thing in question").
- Plato uphold: On the record: S1's standing move throughout the canon and text exchange has been to assert that God blessed a given book or process rather than argue for it; here he escalates that assertion by pointing to the KJV's worldwide distribution and national success as proof of divine endorsement, an explicit appeal to popularity and outcome rather than a new departure, but pressed here as though undeniable. Wide distribution and national prominence of a text says nothing about whether its underlying canon or translation choices are correct; this is the same move as arguing a book is true because many people read it, dressed up as providence, and it never engages the actual dispute over which text or canon is correct that Jay has been pressing throughout this exchange.
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