Appeal: evidence
From Jay Dyer vs Pedro from Crucible Debate: Sola Scriptura and Protestantism.
- #144034:54upheld Jay Dyer epainos: evidence (+2)
The council upheld the call: Jay Dyer earned 2 points.
“… it's an institution that God created. It's an institution that is the body of Christ. Jesus said, he who hears you, hears me, so he gives to the apostles the very authority that he himself had. He then, in the Epistles to Timothy, Paul says, I laid hands on you, you lay hands on men after you who will be able to transmit the things you heard from me in the presence of many witnesses.”
Diogenes: Answering Pedro's charge that Orthodoxy rests on "institutions of man," Jay names a mechanism for his authority claim — divine institution, the dominical commission, and traceable apostolic succession by laying on of hands — rather than resting on a bare appeal to the Church.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: Jay Dyer's recorded first principle is continuity with the apostolic church as the test of a rule of faith, and this line is a direct application of that framework rather than a new or inconsistent claim. Jay Dyer has held since the opening that continuity with the apostolic church, not a bare appeal to church authority, is his standard, and here he cashes that out with a specific mechanism: dominical commission ("he who hears you hears me") and Paul's textual instruction to Timothy about transmitting the deposit through laying on of hands, i.e. a checkable succession claim rather than a circular assertion of authority. This matches the rubric's guidance that naming a mechanism for a circular authority claim (continuity, a text, a council, an unbroken history) earns "evidence," and it is central to his rebuttal of Pedro's "institution of man" charge.
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "explicit argument", on the same ledger as the callout. Jay lays out premises and a conclusion directly rebutting Pedro's claim that "the church is an institution of man": Jesus grants the apostles his own authority ("he who hears you, hears me"), and Paul charges Timothy to pass that deposit to successors who will teach others—therefore the church's authority is divinely instituted, not merely human. He cites specific, checkable texts (Luke's "hears you, hears me" saying and 2 Timothy 2:2) rather than asserting the conclusion bare.
- Plato uphold: On the record: S1 has held since the opening that the Church is a divine institution guided by continuity/apostolic succession rather than a merely human one, and this line is a direct textual defense of that standing claim against Pedro's specific charge, not a new or inconsistent position. Responding directly to Pedro's opening claim that Jay's side "sources their certainty in institutions of man," Jay cites specific, checkable texts (the dominical commission "he who hears you hears me" and Paul's charge to Timothy to transmit what he heard through witnesses to be passed on) to ground apostolic succession as a divinely instituted, traceable mechanism rather than a bare appeal to church authority — this is squarely the "circle with a mechanism" scenario the rubric credits as evidence.
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