Appeal: steelman
From Protestant vs. Orthodox: Scripture and Tradition (Gavin Ortlund + Stephen De Young).
- #157524:38upheld Stephen De Young epainos: steelman (+1)
The council upheld the call: Stephen De Young earned 1 point.
“And I'll I'll be corrected on this if this doesn't represent your view, doctor Orland. But, from what you've said so far, and this is fairly common within reformed areas, there's there's an emphasis on the idea of revelation as propositional…”
Diogenes: Before attacking a view he states it as his opponent's and invites correction, tying the attribution to what Ortlund actually said rather than to a stock caricature.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: S3 has held throughout that Orthodox tradition centers on the Spirit's ongoing life in the church rather than a separate deposit of propositions, and here, before drawing that contrast, he pauses to state what he takes Ortlund's Reformed emphasis to be and explicitly invites correction — consistent with his declared method of engaging Ortlund's actual words rather than a caricature. He restates what he takes to be Ortlund's view, ties it to Ortlund's own stated emphasis on scripture as God's inspired speech, and invites correction rather than assuming; that Ortlund then refines/rejects the framing in reply is the normal outcome of a good-faith attempt, not evidence the attempt was uncharitable or invented.
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "clarification", on the same ledger as the callout. Before drawing a contrast between propositional and person-centered views of revelation, De Young explicitly flags his characterization as tentative ("I'll be corrected on this if this doesn't represent your view") and later even says "that may be a misrepresent[ation]," inviting Gavin to confirm or correct rather than simply assuming. Gavin does in fact correct the framing (citing Ridderbos, Vos, and the narratival emphasis in Reformed biblical theology), and De Young accepts this without dispute, which is exactly the charitable, checked-before-answering move the exchange shows working as intended.
- Plato uphold: On the record: S3 has held throughout that Orthodox tradition/revelation centers on the Spirit's ongoing life and the person of Christ rather than propositional deposit; this line is him probing whether Ortlund's Reformed framework fits that contrast, a live inquiry rather than a departure from his own position. De Young does attribute the propositional-revelation view to Ortlund and explicitly invites correction rather than assuming — but Ortlund's own reply ("I wouldn't at all say it's a difference of propositional versus some alternative. That's not the contrast in my view," citing Dutch Reformed narrative theologians like Vos and Ridderbos) shows the restatement was not in fact accurate. Since 'steelman' requires an accurate restatement and this one was corrected as missing the mark, 'clarification' — inviting correction instead of assuming — is the better-fitting philosopher point for the same passage.
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