Appeal: evidence
From Protestant vs. Orthodox: Scripture and Tradition (Gavin Ortlund + Stephen De Young).
- #15981:19:29upheld Stephen De Young epainos: evidence (+2)
The council upheld the call: Stephen De Young earned 2 points.
“… the first document we have that's made it down to us that uses the argument that what is given to the image passes to the prototype is Saint Basil the Great. And he's using this to explain why Christians are monotheists.”
Diogenes: He answers the charge that Nicaea II's figural theology is a late invention by naming its fourth-century source and its original Trinitarian function, which is a checkable claim and one Ortlund immediately granted.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: S3 has held throughout that icon veneration's theology is rooted in and consonant with Trinitarian doctrine rather than a late innovation severed from scripture; this line supports that standing claim with a specific, named, checkable textual source (Basil's De Spiritu Sancto) rather than a bare assertion. The claim names a specific author and text, is verified accurate against Basil's actual argument, and was even granted on the record by Ortlund ("You're right, that's Basil") — a clean, uncontested fit for the evidence label.
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "evidence". Rather than asserting in the abstract that icon veneration rests on sound patristic theology, De Young names a specific, checkable source, Saint Basil the Great, and the specific argument (honor to the image passing to the prototype) and its original context (defending Trinitarian monotheism against the charge of tritheism). Gavin immediately checks this against his own knowledge, briefly disputes it, then concedes "you're right, that's Basil," confirming the citation was accurate and substantive rather than a bare assertion.
- Plato uphold: On the record: S3's standing position is that icon veneration is grounded in and continuous with earlier Trinitarian/incarnational theology already accepted by both sides; citing Basil's earlier use of the image-prototype principle is consistent development of that same claim, not a departure. De Young cites a specific, checkable source (Basil's De Spiritu Sancto) with an accurate account of its content and original Trinitarian purpose, and the verifier confirms the citation matches the text exactly. Ortlund's on-record response ("You're right, that's Basil") shows the citation was accepted as accurate, distinguishing this from a bare assertion.
Appeal this callout
Appeals come only from the debaters themselves. Sign in with Google to start; you'll then prove which debater you are, once.