Appeal: false claim
From HEATED Debate w/ Feminists. Wage Gap, Pro Choice ft. @MikeRashidOfficial.
- #20762:35:56overturned Myron Gaines claim: false claim (+1)
The council overturned the finding, so nothing is marked against Myron Gaines.
The claim, as Thucydides noted it: Women are more likely than men to ask for a raise, even when they don't deserve it compared to the work of their male counterparts.
Diogenes: Thucydides (verifier): unsupported. No study was cited for this superchat claim, so there is no source to check it against; the claim has two parts, and neither holds up against the actual research record. On frequency of asking, the literature is split by era: older work (e.g., Babcock's "Women Don't Ask") found women ask less, while newer studies (Artz, Goodall & Oswald 2018, reported by HBR; a 2023 UC Berkeley MBA-alumni study) find women ask at similar or slightly higher rates but are simply granted raises less often when they do ask. No study in this literature measures whether the raises women ask for are "unearned" relative to men's work; that evaluative claim is not something any of these surveys assess, so it is asserted, not sourced. As stated the compound claim is unsupported, and even its narrower "women ask more" half is at best contested across the research rather than settled.- Aristotle overturn: On the record: Myron's declared method throughout is to assert unsourced generalizations as his own fact-based claims, but this specific quoted line originates from an anonymous super-chat donor's text that he reads aloud rather than a claim he personally constructs and defends in the exchange, so it is misattributed to him as an original assertion. The quoted claim ("Unfortunately, Marian, I love you, man, but it's not true. Women are way more likely to ask for a raise... they do ask for unearned raises") is textually a super-chat being read aloud by Myron, addressed to him by a viewer ("Marian" being the chat's persistent nickname/typo for him throughout the show), not an argument he originates. Per the rule that words read out as someone else's are not the speaker's own argument unless turned into a move on the live question, and here it functions as one more item in the running super-chat read-off rather than a claim he defends against a live interlocutor.
- Socrates overturn: Read blind, found nothing worth calling. This line ("Unfortunately, Marian, I love you, man, but it's not true. Women are way more likely to ask for a raise... Look it up, bro") reads as a viewer super-chat addressed to Myron by his audience nickname and read aloud on air, not his own spontaneously argued claim; words read out as someone else's are not the speaker's argument and are not scored.
- Plato uphold: On the record: Myron's declared framework throughout the wage-gap exchange includes the standing, independently-voiced claim (first made in his own words around 137:29, credited on this bench as a direct answer reflecting his framework) that men are less agreeable and more likely to negotiate for raises than women; this line reinforces and builds on that same standing claim, whether initially voiced while reading a viewer message or in his own words, and he explicitly adopts and extends it ("Yeah. But men get the raises because..."). Even accounting for the possibility that part of this line began as a super-chat being read aloud, Myron turns it into his own live argumentative move by building directly on it ("Yeah. But men get the raises because... men are far less agreeable"), and the substance matches a claim he independently asserts elsewhere in his own voice; the verifier's finding that the compound claim (women ask more, and the raises they ask for are "unearned") is unsupported by the actual research record stands unrebutted and uncorrected.
- Thesmothetes overturn: By the rule: sung or played words are not the speaker's argument. The quoted line opens "Okay. Unfortunately, Marian, I love you, man, but it's not true" — the second-person address to "Marian" (the chat's running nickname/mishearing for "Myron," used by callers throughout, e.g. "Marian, get the stats") shows this is a super-chat being read aloud, in the same "Okay, let's hit these super chats" cadence Myron and Fresh use elsewhere in the show, not a claim Myron spontaneously constructed. What follows in his own voice — "men get the raises because... men are far less agreeable" — is a distinct point about negotiation generally, echoing his earlier independent claim from ~137:00 that men argue for wages more; it does not adopt or defend the specific "ask for unearned raises" characterization the callout targets, so he never turns that particular assertion into his own move on the live question.
Appeal this callout
Appeals come only from the debaters themselves. Sign in with Google to start; you'll then prove which debater you are, once.