Appeal: aporia
From DEBATE: Jay Dyer Vs Pastor Jonathan Shelley | Tradition Vs Sola Scriptura.
- #22971:01:20overturned Jay Dyer against Jonathan Shelley agonisma: aporia (+1)
The council overturned the call, so no points were earned.
“Do you have an example of one or not?”
Diogenes: After repeated demands for a first-to-third-century Christian who held the 66-book canon, Shelley could name only Jerome (a later figure) and admitted there are not many examples of anyone giving a canon list in that period. He has no answer to the challenge and tells Jay he doesn't care about the Fathers.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: Dyer opened by arguing that Scripture itself points beyond the text to oral tradition and that Shelley has no basis for the Protestant canon, and he has held that throughout; the called line presses that same challenge, so it does not depart from his position. Dyer pressed repeatedly for a pre-Nicene witness to the 66-book canon. Shelley could name only Jerome, who is later, and said he didn't care about the Fathers. He admitted few canon lists exist from that period. He never admitted he had no answer, and he kept asserting that Christians recognized the canon by its divine voice. So this is a dead end in practice but not a stated aporia. The closest category is a forced concession: he conceded he could name no one in the first three centuries.
- Socrates overturn: Read blind, found nothing worth calling. Jay presses a direct question Shelley has dodged repeatedly: name someone in the first three centuries with his canon. It is a fair, repeated request tied to the live canon dispute, not a fallacy or a merit beyond the question itself.
- Plato overturn: On the record: Dyer declared at the opening that Scripture points beyond itself to oral tradition and that Shelley has no basis for the Protestant canon, and he has pressed that canon challenge throughout; this line is the same demand and does not depart from it. Dyer repeated a question he had put many times. Shelley did not reach a dead end. He gave Jerome and Athanasius, and he kept to his position that the canon is self-authenticating and that he does not need a Father to name. He never said he had no answer, so there was no aporia. The exchange also did not produce a decisive concession or a refutation, so no other duel category fits.
- Thesmothetes overturn: By the rule: an element of the label is missing from the record. Aporia needs the opponent brought to a dead end and admitting he has no answer. Around 61:20 Shelley named Jerome, said few canon lists exist from that period, and kept to his claim that the canon is recognised by its divine voice. He never said he had no answer, so the admission element is missing. The line only repeats the canon challenge Dyer had pressed since his opening.
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