Appeal: evidence
From DEBATE: Jay Dyer Vs Pastor Jonathan Shelley | Tradition Vs Sola Scriptura.
- #23131:53:17upheld Jonathan Shelley epainos: evidence (+2)
The council upheld the call: Jonathan Shelley earned 2 points.
“Ecclesiasticus 11 verse 31 says, for Eliath [he lieth] in wait and turneth good into evil, and in things worthy praise will lay blame upon thee. Second John one ten, if there come any undoing [unto you], bring not this doctrine, receive him not in your house…” quote corrected
Diogenes: Shelley answers Jay's cited article by setting out the two verses it claims are linked (Sirach 11:31 and 2 John 10) and showing that they say different things, which supports his claim that the first example in the article is not a real citation. The texts are checkable.major: A specific, checkable rebuttal to Jay's "dozens of citations" claim that Jay did not answer, but it addresses only the article's first example.
- Aristarchus (transcript) corrected: "Eliath" is "he lieth" and "undoing" is "unto you", as the KJV wording of Ecclesiasticus 11:31 ("he lieth in wait") and 2 John 1:10 ("if there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine") shows.
- Aristotle uphold: On the record: Shelley opened by declaring Christ the infallible head and final authority, with Scripture as his word, and has held that the Apocrypha fails the tests of Scripture; the called line applies that position by checking Dyer's cited article against the texts, so it does not depart from it. He cites two specific, checkable verses (Sirach 11:31 and 2 John 10), quotes them accurately, and uses them to support his claim that Dyer's first example is not a real citation. The verifier confirmed the quotations. The claim and its support are kept distinct, so this is evidence. Because the comparison is shown with the actual texts, major severity fits.
- Socrates overturn: Read blind, found nothing worth calling. Shelley quotes Sirach 11:31 and 2 John 10 side by side to show the first example in Jay's article is a weak parallel. That is a checkable comparison. It is also a single case, and Jay says his argument does not rest on it. Whether this distorts the article's thesis (that the Septuagint carried the deuterocanon and the apostles used it) is close, and a toss-up is overturned. No fault or merit is clearly shown.
- Plato uphold: On the record: Shelley declared at the opening that Christ is the final authority, that his word is infallible, and that Scripture is that word. He has held since that the Apocrypha fails the tests of divine voice and internal consistency. The called line applies that position and does not depart from it. Shelley cites two checkable texts, Sirach 11:31 and 2 John 10, and quotes them accurately, apart from transcription errors. He offers them as support for his claim that Jay's first article example is not a real citation. The verifier confirmed the quotations. The text is checkable and distinct from the claim, so evidence stands. Major severity fits because it answers Jay's lead example directly.
- Thesmothetes uphold: By the rule: every element of the label is found in the record. Shelley claimed that the first example in Dyer's article is not a real citation. He supported that claim with two checkable texts, Sirach 11:31 and 2 John 10, and kept them distinct from the claim. The verifier confirmed his renderings are accurate apart from transcription errors, so the claim, the checkable support and the separation are all in the record. Whether the verses "reference each other" is his judgment, but that does not take away the evidence.
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