Appeal: false claim
From DEBATE: Jay Dyer Vs Pastor Jonathan Shelley | Tradition Vs Sola Scriptura.
- #23271:59:15upheld Jonathan Shelley claim: false claim (+1)
The council upheld the finding: Jonathan Shelley gave away 1 point on Alētheia, the tally of checked facts.
The claim, as Thucydides noted it: The King James Bible's Old Testament is based on the preserved Hebrew and Greek texts and only seldom deviates from the Masoretic text, never from its consonantal text.
Diogenes: Thucydides (verifier): unsupported. The first half holds: the KJV Old Testament is chiefly based on the Masoretic Hebrew, in the Bomberg Rabbinic Bible tradition. The "never from its consonantal text" half does not. The translators sometimes followed the Qere reading against the written Ketiv consonants (Ps. 100:3 "not we ourselves" is a standard example). They also sometimes followed the Septuagint, Vulgate, or Targum over the Hebrew consonants, as at Ps. 22:16 "pierced." Shelley's "Hebrew and Greek" also fits only the New Testament, not the Old. The claim is a Protestant apologetic position, but it is a factual overstatement under any tradition's reading. I cited these from memory and did not check them against a primary text.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: Shelley opened by declaring Christ the infallible head and final authority, with his word identified as written Scripture, and has held that the KJV rests on the preserved Hebrew and Greek; the called line restates that position with a specific factual overstatement, not a departure from it. Shelley said the KJV deviates only seldom from the Masoretic text and never from its consonants. "Never" is an overstatement. The KJV followed Qere readings over the written Ketiv consonants (Ps. 100:3) and sometimes followed the versions (Ps. 22:16). The point is minor but it is a factual error, and he did not correct it.
- Socrates overturn: Read blind, found nothing worth calling. Shelley answers a Q&A question on perspicuity and preservation by describing his translation's textual basis: the KJV follows the Hebrew consonantal text and rarely departs from the Masoretic pointing. It is a checkable factual claim about the KJV, not a move against a live point. It earns no fault, and it is not offered as a reason that settles the canon, so it earns no merit either.
- Plato uphold: On the record: Shelley declared at the opening that Christ is the final authority, that his word is infallible and that Scripture is that word, and he has held that the KJV rests on the preserved Hebrew and Greek; the called line fits that position and states a factual overstatement within it. Shelley said the KJV "does deviate very, very seldom" from the Masoretic text but "not from the consonantal vowels." The verifier's finding holds against that: the KJV sometimes follows Qere over Ketiv and sometimes follows the versions over the Hebrew consonants. "Never" is a factual overstatement. The error is small, so the severity stays minor.
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