Appeal: evidence
From HEATED DEBATE: Jay Dyer Vs Jake Muslim Metaphysician | Trinity Vs Tawhid -Modern Day Debate.
- #6811:07:17upheld Jake the Muslim Metaphysician epainos: evidence (+2)
The council upheld the call: Jake the Muslim Metaphysician earned 2 points.
“… let me read you from your good friend doctor Bo [Beau] Branson in his PhD dissertation on page one sixty eight on the section four point two point one... Richard Cross argues persuasively, in my view, that Saint Gregory and Saint Basil both use the term Usia synonymously with nature, and they conceive of this as a universal.” quote corrected
Diogenes: Asked where he got the claim that the divine essence is a universal, he answers with a named Orthodox scholar, dissertation, page and section — exactly the checkable source the question demanded.- Aristotle uphold: On the record: Jake has held throughout that Orthodox Trinitarianism treats the divine essence as a shared universal instantiated by three persons (the basis of his LPT and later Timothy Pawl quotation), and this citation of Branson's dissertation with page/section number, quoting Richard Cross on Basil and Gregory using "Usia" synonymously with "nature" and conceiving it as universal, is a specific, checkable source offered in direct response to Jay's challenge "where did you get this idea" — consistent with, not a departure from, his running argument. This is a textbook instance of the "evidence" category: Jake distinguishes his claim from its support by naming a specific scholar, work, page (168), and section (4.2.1), and quoting the relevant line — something checkable rather than a bare assertion. Jay's subsequent reply (that the term's usage "evolves over time" across the Cappadocians and later fathers) contests the claim's force but does not undo the fact that Jake supplied a genuine, citable piece of evidence when asked for his source.
- Socrates uphold: Read blind, found "evidence". Jake cites a specific, checkable source—Bo Branson's PhD dissertation, page 168, section 4.2.1—quoting Richard Cross's scholarly claim that Gregory and Basil use ousia synonymously with nature and treat it as a universal. This is not a bare assertion but a claim tied to a named, locatable academic source, which Jay does not dispute as a misquotation but instead answers with a historical distinction (Cappadocian vs. post-Chalcedonian usage) in the following cross-examination.
- Plato uphold: On the record: Jake has held throughout the debate (opening and rebuttals) that Orthodox trinitarianism treats the divine essence as a shared universal instantiated by three persons, which is central to his LPT/nominalism critique; this line is consistent with that position, not a departure. Jay had just asked "where did you get this idea that the divine essence is a universal?" and Jake answers with a named scholar (Bo Branson), a specific work (PhD dissertation), page number, and section heading — a genuinely checkable citation that distinguishes claim from source, exactly what the evidence category requires.
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