Fr. Ananias and Jay Dyer vs Matt Slick: Orthodoxy vs Protestantism Debate

0:00Matt SlickAre all the councils inspired and inerrant?

0:04Jay DyerThe ecumenical synods, yes.

0:07Matt SlickSo there are... The ecumenical synods are inspired and inerrant?

0:11Jay DyerCorrect.Corrected

0:12Matt SlickHow do you know?

0:13Jay DyerBecause the Holy Spirit leads us to know the truth.

0:16Matt SlickHow do you know the Holy Spirit leads you to know the truth?

0:18Jay DyerBecause they're in accord with all the other ecumenical doctrines, all the other testimonies of the saints and the scriptures.

0:25Matt SlickThat you're you're just making an assumption that all the the saints

0:28Jay Dyeragree They do.Corrected

0:30Jay DyerThey do. I can go read them. You have no saints.

0:33Jay DyerYou have no continuity with history. You're a sectarian.

0:37Matt SlickExcuse me?Corrected

0:38Jay DyerYou are in a cult.

0:39Jay DyerYou are not in a church. You invented your own church.

0:42Matt SlickExcuse me.

0:43Jay DyerYou're a goblin, a demon, a boomer tard.

0:46MnestheusWhat what are we debating? What... What's the topic?

0:49MnestheusAlso,Corrected

0:49Fr. AnaniasProtestantism

0:51Fr. AnaniasversusCorrected

0:52Fr. AnaniasOrthodoxy.Corrected

0:53Matt SlickOh, which is true, I would suppose.

0:56Matt SlickAlright.

0:57MnestheusYeah. Which one is true? Exactly.

0:58Matt SlickYep. Oh, that's easy. Protestantism.

1:01Matt SlickNext. That was that was an easy debate.

1:04MnestheusOkay. I'll be...

1:05Fr. AnaniasI've I've been refuted. Sorry, guys. Gotta go.

1:08MnestheusYeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry for the long wait. I know those quick, but... Yeah.

1:12MnestheusSo, yeah, I guess, the way we can do this is maybe,

1:17Mnestheuseach one of you gives a small introduction as to, who you are and, where you're coming from, what is your worldview and background, and

1:25Mnestheusalso like a sort of small introduction to the argument you're gonna put forth. And,

1:29Mnestheusmaybe from that, you know, we we won't make it as formal. It's just be something informal rather like a back and forth.

1:36MnestheusIf it gets too, maybe heated or if it gets too

1:40Mnestheuskind of, disruptive like, we're gonna

1:44Mnestheusmoderate... We're gonna have it moderated.

1:45MnestheusSo,

1:46Mnestheusjust, try not to, kind of interrupt each other or overtalk each other.

1:52MnestheusAnd maybe if, you know, you're allowed to obviously ask questions for clarification and all that. So

1:58Mnestheusso... Yeah. Anyone anyone of you wants to start?

2:02Fr. AnaniasHow about we have? Matt. Matt, why don't you go?Corrected

2:05Matt SlickWell, I don't know what I don't know who you are.

2:09Matt SlickWhat... Really. So go ahead and I'll respond.

2:12Fr. AnaniasSo I

2:14Fr. Ananiaswas raised a protestant.

2:16Fr. AnaniasStarted from an evangelical

2:18Fr. Ananiasbackground, kinda nondenominational.

2:21Fr. AnaniasAnd then

2:22Fr. Ananiasbecame a Lutheran Missouri Synod.

2:26Fr. AnaniasAnd

2:27Fr. AnaniasI have studied

2:30Fr. AnaniasRoman Catholicism.

2:32Fr. AnaniasI got my bachelor's

2:35Fr. Ananiasin

2:37Fr. Ananiasclassical liberal arts, great books, school, Thomas Aquinas College,

2:41Fr. Ananiaswhere

2:43Fr. AnaniasI learned how to argue against Roman Catholics.

2:48Fr. AnaniasAnd

2:50Fr. AnaniasI also have a

2:52Fr. Ananiasmaster's and PhD in

2:55Fr. Ananiasphilosophy

2:56Fr. Ananiasand a

2:58Fr. Ananiasdegree from Saint Vladimir's Seminary.

3:01Fr. AnaniasAnd I

3:02Fr. Ananiasconverted from Lutheranism

3:05Fr. Ananiasto

3:07Fr. AnaniasEastern Orthodox

3:08Fr. Ananiasthrough my study

3:09Fr. Ananiasand also

3:12Fr. Ananiaswas ordained into the clergy.

3:15Fr. AnaniasI have been clergy for...

3:18Fr. AnaniasFather deacon for four years.

3:21Fr. AnaniasSo that's a little bit about my background.

3:25Fr. AnaniasAnd I I teach at the university.

3:29Matt SlickWow. You got a lot of qualifications. I just have a master of divinity. I was raised as a basic... As a heathen slime dog pagan mixed up in the occult

3:38Matt Slickand got tricked into being saved. And

3:41Matt SlickI'm a five point Calvinist who runs carm.org,

3:45Matt Slickcarm.org.

3:48Matt SlickThat's what I do.

3:48Fr. AnaniasI didn't

3:49Fr. Ananiasknow that.

3:50Fr. AnaniasMhmm. So I just...

3:51Matt SlickThank you.

3:52Matt SlickWell, you know of Carm?

3:54Fr. AnaniasYes. I do. I just didn't know that you were associated with and ran that. So good to know. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Feel free to add anything else.

4:05Matt SlickNo.

4:06Matt SlickIt's no big deal.

4:09Fr. AnaniasSo we know eachCorrected

4:10Fr. Ananiasother's backgrounds.

4:12MnestheusSo I guess, we can maybe

4:14Mnestheuscut that out of the way. Matt, you wanna maybe give,

4:18Mnestheussort of an intro or, like, either one of you can start.

4:21MnestheusI guess,

4:23Mnestheusthe sort of, I guess general argument you would have as to why you believe,

4:28Mnestheusorthodoxy or prostentism is true and maybe why prostentism or orthodoxy is false.

4:37Matt SlickSo since he went first, I'll follow-up.Corrected

4:41Matt SlickLast name is is slick for real, my real name, so I'll keep it quick and slick.

4:47Matt SlickI have a very very very high view of scripture

4:50Matt SlickAnd I studied orthodoxy, roman catholicism, and they fail miserably

4:55Matt Slickto adhere to the inspired word of God.

4:58Matt SlickAnd I'm a five point Calvinist, I can defend it very well from scripture.

5:02Matt SlickAnd the reason that

5:04Matt SlickI am is because that's what the scriptures teach,

5:07Matt Slickand I can argue it quite well.

5:09Matt SlickAnd

5:10Matt SlickI would go so far as to say that the Eastern Orthodox Church from what I understand and and granted I could misunderstand

5:16Matt Slicksome things, it's difficult to find out really what they teach because there's different variations, different books that say slightly different things. But soteriologically,

5:24Matt Slickthey're synergistic.

5:26Matt SlickAnd

5:27Matt Slickso I would say that these orthodox does not qualify as a true Christian church and all who adhere to official

5:33Matt Slickeast orthodox theology regarding the doctrine of salvation will end up being damned. This is as far as I understand the satiriological

5:42Matt Slicksynergistic system.

5:44Matt SlickNow I'm open again to being corrected and say, well, man, that's not what we teach. Great. I got my notes open and would love to be corrected if that's the case. And we can maybe go through some scriptures at that point. So that's what I would say.

6:00Fr. AnaniasThank you, Matt. So

6:02Fr. Ananiasour Eastern Orthodox response is

6:06Fr. Ananiasto call out the Protestants for...

6:10Fr. AnaniasTo cite scripture in the way that you have begs the question.

6:16Fr. AnaniasFirst,

6:19Fr. Ananiashow did you get your scriptures?

6:21Fr. AnaniasHow are you interpreting them properly?

6:25Fr. AnaniasAll of which

6:27Fr. Ananiasargue

6:30Fr. Ananiaswill result either in circular reasoning

6:33Fr. Ananiasor appeals

6:35Fr. Ananiasto a historical...

6:38Fr. AnaniasIn various doctrines that ends up becoming self refuting.

6:42Fr. AnaniasSo that would be

6:45Fr. Ananiasa argument that you can't simply...

6:47Fr. AnaniasIf you have not established

6:50Fr. Ananiasthe canonicity of scripture,

6:53Fr. Ananiasyou cannot appeal to scripture

6:56Fr. Ananiasto prove the canon, let alone the correct interpretation,

7:00Fr. Ananiasand then come back

7:01Fr. Ananiasand say that

7:03Fr. Ananiasthe Orthodox Church does not fit up the scripture.

7:07Fr. AnaniasAnd lastly,

7:08Fr. Ananiaswe'd say that scripture

7:10Fr. Ananiasis a product of the orthodox church

7:14Fr. Ananiasand can never be divorced

7:16Fr. Ananiasfrom that.

7:18Fr. AnaniasAnd therefore,

7:19Fr. Ananiasthat critique would be invalid. Just a way I'm real kinda quick and then we can go further in the details. That would be a general kind argument.

7:28Matt SlickWell, no disrespect, man. But if you have a PhD in philosophy, I'd expect a little bit more precision in your logic than that. I don't have to be able to demonstrate why or how we got the word of God except to say that the word of God is inspired by him.

7:40Matt SlickAnd that God in his great sovereignty, Ephesians one eleven, who works all things after the counsel of his will is certainly capable of of working history so that his scriptures are before us. As far as hermeneutics go, well, then that's something we can discuss. I can run some scriptures by you and see how you do....

7:57Matt SlickSo

7:59Fr. Ananiaswhat is the word of God?

8:01Matt SlickIt's the inspired word of God, the the bible that we have.

8:05Fr. AnaniasWell, that's a... We weCorrected

8:06Fr. Ananiashave different Bibles. So that begs the question of...

8:10Fr. AnaniasSo you're saying it's

8:12Fr. Ananiasit's it's

8:14Fr. Ananiasobvious

8:15Fr. Ananiasand it's clear,

8:17Fr. AnaniasI. E. Properly basic,

8:20Fr. Ananiaswhat the word of God is.Corrected

8:22Fr. AnaniasBut that's certainly not true,

8:26Fr. Ananiaseither historically

8:28Fr. Ananiasor even among

8:31Fr. AnaniasChristian sects.

8:32Fr. AnaniasSo for you to say that and say that you don't have to provide justification...

8:37Matt SlickNo. I don't.

8:40Matt SlickSo... I don't accept your

8:42Matt SlickI don't accept your requirement.

8:44Matt SlickDo you agree that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians are inspired scripture?

8:50Fr. AnaniasYeah. But I have different justification for it. So you can't say...

8:54Fr. AnaniasSo what... Let's say somebody says that,

8:56Fr. Ananiaswell, inspired scripture, my canon's only,

8:59Fr. Ananiasthe synoptic gospels.

9:01Fr. AnaniasAnd, clearly, that's a product of history, and so that's the word of God.

9:08Fr. AnaniasYou're gonna ask,

9:09Fr. Ananiaswhat's your justification for that?

9:11Matt SlickNo. I'm not.

9:12Fr. AnaniasYour argument is going to... Well, then it's it's viciously circular.

9:16Fr. AnaniasSo you can't say that...

9:19Fr. AnaniasLet's say...

9:21Fr. AnaniasNow I... Just because I agree...

9:23Fr. AnaniasSo we agree to the 27 books of the New Testament. It doesn't mean that you're justified

9:29Fr. Ananiasin,

9:31Fr. Ananiasknowing that those are simply because they're present.

9:34Fr. AnaniasSo unless you're able to have justification of how is that the word of god, is it listed in

9:41Fr. Ananiasbook that

9:43Fr. Ananiasthese are the the books,

9:46Fr. Ananiasthat are included

9:47Fr. Ananiasin the canon?

9:49Fr. AnaniasWell, clearly, it doesn't. And so you'd... You have an ad hoc and unjustified

9:54Fr. Ananiasclaim to

9:56Fr. Ananiasnow argue simply because we agree with it. People agree with all kinds of things. The question isn't about what we agree on.

10:04Fr. AnaniasIt's who has the justification because this is really, do you know? It's not a true belief. Somebody could get a lucky guess

10:11Fr. Ananiason something. What we're interested in is,

10:16Fr. Ananiasis your belief true,

10:18Fr. AnaniasAnd do you have justification for it? And so that's what I'm calling you out on is that you can't simply say, well, it's there. So that's my justification.

10:26Matt SlickI don't agree with you.

10:28Matt SlickSee, I'm not gonna fall into that trap. Yeah. I'm not... Because it's a Roman Catholic argument that you're giving. We have to justify what the scriptures are. No. I don't.

10:37Matt SlickSo you assert that I have to.

10:39Fr. AnaniasWhat are the scriptures?

10:41Matt SlickI assert that I don't have to. I asked you about the New Testament and you volunteered that you agree that the 27 books in New Testament are inspired.

10:49Fr. AnaniasLet's say you were talking to somebody else. Let's say somebody...

10:52Matt SlickI'm not talking to somebody else.

10:55Matt SlickWell, then...

10:56MnestheusTo you.

10:58Fr. AnaniasThen you're being disingenuous. What I'm

10:59Fr. Ananiastrying to... No. I'm not. No. No. No. No. No. No. Don't say I'm disingenuous. You don't know my heart. That's that's a ad hominem kind of an argument here. Okay. Let me... So what I'm asking you to do is...Corrected

11:10Matt SlickThe the issue is we believe that the bible's true.

11:14Matt SlickRight. I can ask you......

11:15Fr. AnaniasMy argument is is you have no justification for that.

11:19Matt SlickI don't.

11:19Fr. AnaniasSo my question isn't

11:21Fr. Ananiaswhat you just said. I don't need any justification for other than... I...

11:24Matt SlickWhat what what......

11:25Fr. AnaniasAd hoc.

11:26Matt SlickYou're to you're supposed to have PhD

11:30Matt Slickin philosophy.

11:31Jay DyerYeah. This is whatCorrected

11:32Jay DyerMatt does. Here he comes with his bullshit. This is what you do every time, Matt. This is why you're terrible. This is why it doesn't work, Matt. You... You're not...

11:40Fr. AnaniasThis is what we the work. What we do in philosophy. We look for justifications,

11:44Fr. Ananiasand we call people out if they simply say that I don't need a justification.

11:48Fr. AnaniasIt just is.

11:50Fr. AnaniasAnd that's just the word of god.

11:51Matt SlickI'm I'm about ready to

11:52Matt SlickI'm aboutCorrected

11:53Matt Slickready to leave. I'm gonna... I'm I'm gonna be... I'm just gonna... Yeah. Once he

11:56Jay Dyerhears my voice, he leaves because...

11:58Matt SlickCould you just...

11:58Jay DyerI'm gonna call him out on this.

11:59Matt SlickCould you just shut up for a second? I'm supposed to debate

12:03Jay DyerI'm gonna shut up.

12:04Matt SlickOkay. I'm supposed to debate this guy,

12:07Matt Slicknot everybody else.

12:10Matt SlickRight?

12:11Matt SlickIs that correct?

12:13Matt SlickSo...

12:14MnestheusYeah. Let's just... IsCorrected

12:16Mnestheusit correct? Go ahead.Corrected

12:17Matt SlickYou want me to debate everybody? Then you have to get in line. You gotta give questions to somebody, And then I'll have to take a list of the questions, and we can go on till midnight.

12:26MnestheusLet's just let's

12:27Mnestheusjust keep the conversation going between father Deacon and

12:31MnestheusMatt SlickCorrected

12:34Matt SlickI was invited.

12:36Matt SlickI was invited in to debate this one person. That's what I understood.

12:40Matt SlickThat's what I accepted.

12:42Matt SlickI'm not gonna go for this. A bunch of people gonna gang up stuff. That's fine. It's not gonna happen....

12:47Fr. AnaniasTalk to me. It's it's

12:48Fr. Ananiasit's fine.Corrected

12:48Matt SlickGood.

12:49Fr. AnaniasSo let's go back to the point. So you're saying that

12:53Fr. Ananiasit just is and I don't require any justification other than I believe it is a justification.

13:00Matt SlickThe reason......

13:00Fr. AnaniasPhilosophy that's circular reasoning and nobody allows for that. So...

13:04Matt SlickYes. Everybody... You know, everybody has

13:07Matt Slickeverybody's circular reasons. The reason I believe that inspired word of God is true is because of the inner testimony of the Holy Spirit given by the Lord Jesus Christ, and he said in John twenty seven twenty eight, John ten twenty seven twenty eight, my sheep hear my voice and then I know them and they follow me. I know the voice of Christ as you should if you're a true believer. The voice of Christ is the inspired word of God. I don't have any doubts about the word of God. I know that God in his sovereignty according to Ephesians one eleven is

13:34Matt Slickperfectly able to work all things after the council of his will. And he worked through the apostate Roman

13:40Matt SlickCatholic church and even, I would say,

13:43Matt Slicksome other people in order to bring about the preservation of his inspired word, which you recognize and I recognize consist, at least in the New Testament, of the 27 books.

13:53Matt SlickThere you go.

13:55Fr. AnaniasLet's say we have a Hindu

13:57Fr. Ananiaswho...

13:58Fr. AnaniasAnd there's Hindus that actually recognize

14:02Fr. Ananiasthe bible

14:03Fr. Ananiasas

14:05Fr. Ananiasthe word of God.

14:07Fr. AnaniasSo you're telling me that you're not gonna call them out and say, well, you don't need to justify that because we all just agree that that's the... Now first of all, I think that the means how it was produced,

14:19Fr. Ananiasokay, the historicity,

14:21Fr. Ananiasthe life of the church,

14:24Fr. Ananiasthe understanding,

14:26Fr. Ananiasall of those are important. You're saying,

14:28Fr. Ananiasdon't even need to get into those. And what I'm gonna argue is that Calvinism is ahistorical.

14:34Fr. AnaniasIt matches up with nothing

14:36Fr. Ananiaseither in its interpretation, understanding the canon, or the scriptures themselves

14:41Fr. Ananiasto any of the early church whatsoever.

14:46Fr. AnaniasAnd so you're saying, but it's sufficient

14:49Fr. Ananiasif I take your book,

14:52Fr. Ananiasby the way,

14:53Fr. Ananiasit's written by our authors and canonized by our saints and councils.

14:58Fr. AnaniasAnd you're saying, I reject that. And because it's there, I can take it. I can take it out. And it's very clear where the scriptures,Corrected

15:06Fr. Ananiashow they're formed in the context of them

15:10Fr. Ananiasbeing read and understood

15:12Fr. Ananiasin the liturgy. YouCorrected

15:13Fr. Ananiasdon't have a liturgy. You reject the councils. You reject almost everything of the early church that producedCorrected

15:21Fr. Ananiasscriptures.

15:22Fr. AnaniasAnd you're saying that my ahistorical

15:25Fr. Ananiasanachronistic

15:26Fr. Ananiasunderstanding of scripture is sufficient, I don't have to justify that. I... My friend, they find that a bad argument.

15:32Matt SlickDid you hear me say I rejected any of the councils or the church fathers?

15:37Fr. AnaniasWell, let's...

15:38Matt SlickDid you hear me say that I did you hear me say? You accused me.

15:43Fr. AnaniasI did.

15:43Matt SlickDid you Yeah. Did you hear me say that I reject the... You said

15:48Matt SlickI reject the church fathers and you said I reject all the councils. Did you hear me say that?

15:53Fr. AnaniasAnd the reason why I did is because you can hear something either explicitly or implicit. You said you're a

15:59Fr. Ananiasfive point cal...Calvinist.Corrected

16:01Matt SlickK. Excuse me. Excuse me. Now, you accuse me of rejecting the councils which I don't do. I reject the Roman Catholic Trent council.

16:11Matt SlickI don't...

16:13Fr. AnaniasDo you do youCorrected

16:13Fr. Ananiasaccept

16:14Fr. Ananiasdo you accept

16:16Fr. AnaniasConstantinople?Corrected

16:17Fr. AnaniasConstantinople in 381?Corrected

16:19Fr. Ananiasand everything in there?

16:21Matt SlickI would have to go through it and refresh my memory to see what is or is not before I said yes or no.

16:26Fr. AnaniasWell, wait a minute. You just said you didn't reject it, so you've already given an affirmation

16:31Fr. Ananiason and now you're you're back again.

16:32Matt SlickYou're supposed to be logical. I'm serious. I'm not trying to be insulting. But if you have a PhD, you should do better. To not reject is not... Does not necessarily mean I affirm.

16:44Matt SlickNeed to do that. You need to all up your game here. I'm serious.

16:48Matt SlickYou've already made several logic errors. Now you're the one you talked to. You have a PhD in philosophy.

16:53Matt SlickSo if you're gonna argue logically,

16:55Matt Slickyou're the one begging the question. You haven't proved anything and you've made false accusations against me.

16:59Fr. AnaniasI'm just asking you questions. I haven't even gotten...

17:01Matt SlickNo. You haven't. Just No. You've made a lot of accusations.

17:06Matt SlickYou need to up your game here. I'm serious.Corrected

17:09Matt SlickYou've already made several logic errors. Now you're the one who talked to... You have a PhD in philosophy.

17:13Matt SlickSo if you're gonna argue logically,

17:15Matt Slickyou're the one begging the question. You haven't proved anything, and you've made false accusations against me.Corrected

17:20Fr. AnaniasI'm just asking you questions. I haven't even

17:22Fr. AnaniasgottenCorrected

17:22Matt SlickNo. You haven't. Just... No. You've made a lot of accusations.

17:26Fr. AnaniasYou told me you're a five point Calvinist. Okay? I knowCorrected

17:29Matt SlickYes. I am.

17:30Fr. AnaniasCalvinists hold about the ecumenical councils.Corrected

17:33Matt SlickLet's go to the scriptures, and let's see if it's in the scriptures.

17:36Matt SlickThat's my challenge to you. Let's go.

17:39Fr. AnaniasThis is prior to the scriptures. This is before... So I'm gonna ask you

17:43Matt SlickLet's see what

17:44Matt Slickthe scripture says.Corrected

17:44Fr. AnaniasYou don't, and I wanna ask you about Constantinople.

17:49Fr. AnaniasOkay? The council of Constantinople in 381.

17:52Matt SlickConstantinople.

17:54Fr. AnaniasDo you,

17:56Fr. Ananiasas a Calvinist, accept

17:58Fr. Ananiasbaptismal regeneration?

18:00Matt SlickI do not believe that a person is... Has to be baptized in order to be saved. I do not believe that water baptism by immersion, sprinkling, or or pouring

18:09Matt Slickregenerates an individual.

18:11Fr. AnaniasThen you deny constant... Constantinople

18:14Fr. Ananiasof three eighty one council?

18:16Matt SlickIf that's what if that's what they teach, then that part of it, I certainly reject.

18:20Fr. AnaniasSo this is prior to scripture. So you say you have a principle

18:24Matt SlickWoah!Corrected

18:24Fr. Ananiasprior to scripture.

18:25Matt SlickIt's not true. Scripture was written before 381.

18:30Fr. AnaniasYeah. But it's not clear

18:31Fr. Ananiaswhat the scripture was.

18:33Matt SlickWas scripture written before 381?

18:36Matt SlickWas it written before 381? You said before scripture. So therefore, you're incorrect. It's not before scripture.

18:42Fr. AnaniasAlright. Well, let me let me just qualify and make a correction on what I said. The argument's the same.

18:48Fr. AnaniasOkay.

18:49Matt SlickNo. It's not.

18:50Fr. AnaniasWhat the scripture

18:51Fr. Ananiaswas and where it was present is not a principle

18:54Fr. Ananiasof doctrine until

18:57Fr. Ananiasthe the sixth and seventh century.

18:59Fr. AnaniasSo you say, I can go back to... And I use script. Now first of all,

19:04Fr. Ananiaswho's understanding of scripture?

19:06Fr. AnaniasYou're committed to the right of private judgment.

19:09Fr. AnaniasOkay?

19:10Matt SlickInstead,

19:11Matt Slickplease stop accusing me.

19:13Matt SlickPlease stop accusing Well, I don't know you.

19:15Fr. AnaniasYou told me you're a Calvinist. Right?

19:17Matt SlickSo Wait a minute. Wait a minute.Corrected

19:19Fr. AnaniasConfusing.

19:19Matt SlickWait a minute. You keep accusing me of

19:21Fr. Ananiasnot have.

19:23Matt SlickHold on. Hold on.

19:24Fr. AnaniasI'm just going on the words that you said.

19:26Matt SlickNo. You're not.

19:27Fr. AnaniasYou said you're a calCorrected

19:28Fr. AnaniasIf you're a Calvinist, do you believe

19:31Fr. Ananiasthe traditional

19:32Fr. AnaniasWestminster confession

19:34Fr. Ananiasunderstanding

19:35Matt SlickNot all of it.Corrected

19:37Fr. AnaniasOkay. So of

19:38Matt Slickit. Now hold on a sec. Please stop

19:42Matt Slickaccusing me.

19:44Matt SlickYou need to ask questions to see if I believe something or affirm something or not. I told you I'm a five pointer.

19:51Matt SlickWe already agree that 27 books are there.

19:54Matt SlickMy view is that because you fail,

19:57Matt Slickyour church fails

19:59Matt Slickto stick to the New Testament and the doctrine of salvation, this is why you, if you hold to what I understand...

20:06Fr. AnaniasMatt's understanding

20:08Fr. Ananiasof

20:10Fr. Ananiaswhich

20:11Matt SlickLet's go.Corrected

20:12Fr. AnaniasIs theCorrected

20:12Fr. Ananiasright of private judgment. So why is Matt's slick?

20:15Matt SlickLet's go.

20:16Fr. AnaniasWhy does Matt SlickCorrected

20:18Matt SlickLet's go to scripture.

20:19Fr. AnaniasHave

20:20Fr. Ananiasthe proper... It begs a question. I'm asking a different question.

20:24Fr. AnaniasHow is it that Matt Slick

20:26Fr. Ananiashas the correct interpretation?

20:29Matt SlickI tell you what whatCorrected

20:30Fr. Ananiasscripture withCorrected

20:30Matt SlickI tell you what.

20:31Fr. AnaniasAnd then can actually go against the entire history,

20:35Fr. Ananiasall the councils. Right? The consensus... Like, I'm not saying that you're gonna disagree with everything in the council,

20:41Fr. Ananiasbut what the council is, the authority that they have, and the things that you say, you've already admitted that you rejected

20:49Fr. Ananiasone. And knowing what I know of Calvinism, I think it'll be safe to assume that you reject a lot of the other ones too.

20:55Matt SlickK. What

20:55Matt Slickyou're doing is isCorrected

20:56Fr. AnaniasWhy is Matt Slick correct in his interpretation of scripture?

21:00Matt SlickI'm correct in so far as it agrees with what the scripture says. Now what you're doing here... Listen. Hold on a sec.

21:07Matt SlickWhat you're doing here is you're

21:10Matt Slickyou're

21:11Matt Slickyou're soapboxing.

21:13Matt SlickYou get up and you say something, you accuse,

21:16Matt Slickyou move on, you say this is how it's supposed to be,

21:19Matt Slickand you just take these long winded breaths and you start pontificating.

21:24Matt SlickYou wanna sit in the......

21:24Fr. AnaniasYou're a five point Calvinist.

21:26Fr. AnaniasI'm trying understand......Corrected

21:27Matt SlickCan I finish my sentences,

21:29Matt Slickplease.

21:30Fr. AnaniasYes, sir. You may.

21:32Matt SlickI'm gonna call you on the carpet. I haven't accused you of anything.

21:37Matt SlickI'm asking you. You wanna see if I have the right interpretation.

21:41Matt SlickThat means you'll be able to judge my interpretation of scripture. Right?

21:46Fr. AnaniasNo. not me. I don't have a I don't have a rightCorrected

21:48Matt SlickOkay.

21:49Fr. Ananiasto private judgment. We don't hold to that.Corrected

21:50Matt SlickSo you don't know what the... What... If I give you some verses and we discuss them,

21:55Matt Slickcan we can we do that and see what does your church tell

21:59Fr. Ananiasme is is

22:00Matt SlickCan we can

22:01Matt Slickwe see what your church tells you to believe about it?

22:04Fr. AnaniasYeah. Absolutely.

22:06Matt SlickOh, good. Let's let's look at two verses.

22:08Matt SlickLet's look at two verses.

22:10Matt SlickLet's go to the word. Let's see.

22:14Matt SlickYou got a bible in front of you? What version do you use?

22:19Fr. AnaniasSo this is going to be the,

22:22Fr. AnaniasNew King James

22:25Fr. Ananiasthat I have right in front of me. I've got other ones.

22:27Matt SlickThe King James? I'm sorry. Was that... I didn't hear you. I apologize.

22:30Fr. AnaniasThe new... This one is the New King James. I can go

22:33Matt SlickNew King James.

22:34Matt SlickColossians two thirteen and fourteen.

22:45Fr. AnaniasColossians

22:48Matt SlickTwo thirteen and fourteen.

23:04Fr. AnaniasI might give you a chance to speak. Go ahead.

23:08Matt SlickAre you... When you're there, I can

23:09Jay DyerYou want me...

23:10Fr. AnaniasYou don't need to get upset.Corrected

23:11Matt SlickWhen you're there, you can read it so everybody can hear what it is.

23:17Fr. AnaniasYou want me to read it when you were dead in your sins?

23:21Matt SlickRead, if you would, verses thirteen and fourteen. Colossians two thirteen and fourteen.

23:26Matt SlickWe'll analyze it. Let's see how you do.

23:30Fr. AnaniasBut that's not my... I mean, this is a red herring. You're ignoring

23:34Matt SlickIt's not.Corrected

23:34Fr. Ananiasthe question.

23:35Fr. AnaniasYou're

23:37Fr. Ananiassaying...

23:39Fr. AnaniasAnd I don't grant you that, that we can start from some type of

23:43Fr. Ananiascommon neutrality. We can just analyze this without having to justify

23:48Fr. Ananiasour ethics and paradigm.

23:50Matt SlickAnalyze it. Analyze what the scripture says.

23:53Fr. AnaniasWhat I'm saying is that's a red herring

23:56Matt Slickbecause

23:57Matt Slickgoing to... Wait. Wait. Wait a second. Going to God's word to see what it says is a red herring?

24:02MnestheusMatt, just let him explain why it's red herring before you

24:06Fr. AnaniasI don't grant that we have either the same paradigm for understanding that or that we have some neutral ground where we can compare. That's why I'm moving

24:16Fr. Ananiasnot to...

24:18Fr. AnaniasAnd you're taking an evidentialist approach, and I would think that you, you know, given the little I know, and maybe I'm wrong, and you can correct me like you have before.

24:27Fr. AnaniasI would think that you're against this kind of methodology of evidentialism.

24:31Fr. AnaniasWhat I'm calling now is your paradigm on how your both methodology,

24:37Fr. Ananiashow you interpret scripture

24:39Fr. Ananiasand the principle of justifying

24:41Fr. Ananiasthat.

24:42Fr. AnaniasAnd you keep moving it, and that's why I'm calling it a red herring to let's analyze scripture, but I don't grant that. I don't grant that there's this kind of,

24:51Fr. Ananiasneutrality

24:52Fr. Ananiasthat you and I can, especially without

24:55Fr. Ananiasproviding any justification

24:57Fr. Ananiasfor either what is the word of god,

25:01Fr. Ananiashow you interpret that, and the context within history in which it was formed. And so everything I've seen so far, you keep wanting to do these red herrings and get me out to...

25:12Fr. AnaniasSo

25:13Fr. Ananiasnothing in my mouth. I I didn't analyze it. Yes, sir. Go ahead.

25:16SethLet's let's let Matt have a sec.

25:18Matt SlickThis guy is just... He's talking an awful lot, making an awful lot of accusations. And to be fair, he's cut me off numerous times as I've tried to explain myself.

25:28Matt SlickIf you go to John eleven thirty five, it says Jesus wept.

25:32Matt SlickShort verse.

25:34Matt SlickDo we need the authority of the church and church fathers to interpret it?

25:38Matt SlickDo we need it?

25:40Matt SlickYes.

25:41Matt SlickOkay. So I'm gonna interpret it. Okay? I reject your historical... Whatever it is. I reject your Eastern Orthodoxy.

25:47Matt SlickI'm going to interpret the idea that Jesus... It says Jesus wept.

25:51Matt SlickI'm gonna interpret to mean that he was he was crying. He was weeping.

25:55Matt SlickThat there you go.

25:58Fr. AnaniasAnd that's and that's the only thing. So let me tell you a little bit about how philosophy works. So

26:04Fr. Ananiasyou might be right. Can you get certain...

26:07Fr. AnaniasIn some sense, you are, but each proposition

26:11Fr. Ananiasdoesn't exist in isolation.

26:13Fr. AnaniasAnd so the very notion of what it means to weep, the context that it has does not exist in isolation, but within the whole framework and web of beliefs.

26:25Fr. AnaniasAnd you're saying that,

26:27Fr. Ananiaswell, we could just both agree on what that... Well, in some senses, I like to compare it to,

26:35Fr. Ananiascan you

26:36Fr. Ananiashave overlap,

26:38Fr. Ananiasin different games, baseball and tennis?

26:41Fr. AnaniasWell, you can agree that there's a ball, but the very notion of what ball means and how it's interconnected to all the different rules

26:48Fr. Ananiasmakes a big difference, and that is not commensurate.

26:52Fr. AnaniasOkay?

26:53Matt SlickCan I just read the context?

26:56Matt SlickWhen Jesus therefore saw her weeping,

26:59Matt Slickand the Jews who came with her also weeping,

27:02Matt Slickhe was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled and said, where have you laid him? You know, Lazarus.

27:07Matt SlickThey said to him, Lord, come and see. And Jesus wept

27:10Matt Slickfor the Jews were saying, see how he loved him?

27:13Matt SlickI'm just interpreting that to mean that Jesus, you know, shed tears. He wept. He cried. So am I correct, or am I incorrect?

27:20Fr. AnaniasOkay.

27:21Fr. AnaniasYou're correct in that. Now can a reprobateCorrected

27:24Matt SlickOk so then? Oh, I just asked if I was correct. You said I was correct. Did I need the church councils? Did I need your church authority to to interpret that accurately and properly?Corrected

27:34Fr. AnaniasNo. Did I say that you need every single...

27:37Fr. AnaniasYou needed a a restricted.

27:39Fr. AnaniasOkay? But you do need

27:41Matt SlickNow let's go.

27:42Fr. AnaniasThe wider context.

27:44Matt SlickThe wider context of Jesus weeping?

27:47Fr. AnaniasYeah. Well, what does that mean?

27:49Matt SlickIt means he was shedding tears.

27:52Fr. AnaniasOkay.

27:53Fr. AnaniasWhat does that have to... Does that relate to his human nature, to his divine nature? How are the divine and human nature... Do you see that each in simple interpretation that even on a reprobate

28:06Fr. Ananiascould get... Or a Buddhist could get correct,

28:10Fr. Ananiasokay,

28:11Fr. Ananiaswith a a reprobate mind,

28:15Fr. Ananiasthat is connected to so many other issues too. So can you get a kinda general meaning of what we... Yeah. But think about, what that connotes and all the other things that that's tied to.

28:27Fr. AnaniasIt gets into a whole Christological

28:29Fr. Ananiasissue.

28:30Matt SlickExplain it.

28:31Fr. AnaniasI'm not saying that you need the the the church for every single simple kinda run of the mill.

28:38Matt SlickYou're the one talking about this. Go ahead. You can tie in the communicatio idiomatum and the and the, hypostatic union.

28:45Matt SlickGo ahead.

28:47Fr. AnaniasI'm asking you the question.

28:52Fr. AnaniasI can explain that, but that's, again,

28:55Fr. Ananiasgonna go off topic. What I'm trying to get you to understandCorrected

28:57Matt SlickYou

28:58Matt Slickbrought it up. You said... I just said Jesus wept. You were saying I need... Hinting at the idea. I need all this church authority, all this this history, all these councils. But you know that Jesus wept. You agreed. He's... He wept. That's what I said. What's the big deal? We don't need all these councils.

29:13Matt SlickNow let's go back to Colossians two fourteen through two

29:16Fr. Ananiasneed a council to understand the things that that might imply?

29:21Matt SlickIsCorrected

29:21Fr. Ananiasis Christ is Christ is is

29:24Fr. Ananiasimpassable?Corrected

29:25Matt SlickHow do you know the council is right?

29:28Fr. AnaniasWell, this is a question... This is an epistemic question

29:31Fr. Ananiasthe way that anybody would know. But the question is

29:35Matt SlickHow do you know the council is right?

29:36Fr. AnaniasQuestion.

29:37Fr. AnaniasIt's not an epistemic question.

29:39Fr. AnaniasWe'd know in the exact same way

29:41Fr. Ananiasthat any other person know. The question is, are councils normatively binding?

29:48Fr. AnaniasAnd is this what Christ set up?

29:51Fr. AnaniasAnd is this,

29:52Fr. Ananiasdoes this match history?

29:54Fr. AnaniasOkay?

29:55Matt SlickWait. Wait. Does Jesus weeping match history?

29:59Matt SlickIt's historical. It's

30:01Matt Slickright there in the gospel of John. It's a historical document.

30:04Fr. AnaniasYou asked the question about the the the councils.

30:07Fr. AnaniasNow you're switching... No.

30:08Matt SlickI asked you... I didn't ask about the council. I said, how do you know the council's correct? That's what I asked.

30:14Fr. AnaniasThat's... Yes. And what I'm saying is the question is not about how do we know that councils are correct.

30:20Matt SlickIt is.

30:21Fr. AnaniasHow do you know that this is a question that Christ established

30:25Fr. Ananiasthis authority?

30:26Matt SlickI didn't ask that question. I asked you specifically,

30:29Matt Slickand you can't even get the question right. Said, how do you know how do you know that councils are right?

30:36Matt SlickHow do you know?

30:37Fr. AnaniasThrough

30:38Fr. Ananiasthe holy spirit, the same way that you would know through

30:41Fr. Ananiasthat this is what Christ established.

30:44Fr. AnaniasThis is the church of the apostles and their disciples. This is the episcopies that they established.

30:50Fr. AnaniasThis is theCorrected

30:52Fr. AnaniasOkay?

30:53Fr. AnaniasThis matches history,

30:55Fr. Ananiasand this is the mechanism by which the holy spirit. That's the epistemic.Corrected

30:58Fr. AnaniasNow the question is...

31:00Fr. AnaniasNow a historical question,

31:03Fr. Ananiasdoes Christ establish a normative

31:05Fr. Ananiasbody such that their interpretation...

31:08Fr. AnaniasSo let me correct myself with the Jesus wept Do you need with every single thing somebody to step in and tell you, no. You don't.Corrected

31:16Fr. AnaniasDoes that then follow

31:18Fr. Ananiasthat you don't need

31:20Fr. Ananiasthe episcopos

31:22Fr. Ananiasand the structure of the church

31:24Fr. Ananiasto be a normative body,

31:26Fr. Ananiasno. That's false. That doesn't follow.

31:28Matt SlickNot talking about that.

31:30Fr. AnaniasThat's what I'm talking about. That's the orthodox position. We're comparing the protestant I know. I'm saying that you need a normative body that is established by the apostlesCorrected

31:40Matt SlickLet me help you out.Corrected

31:41Fr. AnaniasAnd the bishops,

31:43Fr. Ananiasokay, to know what scripture is.

31:46Fr. AnaniasThat's how it's formed.

31:48Fr. AnaniasK?

31:49Fr. AnaniasWhat the word of God is

31:52Fr. Ananiasand the understand... On every single thing, of course not.

31:56Fr. AnaniasBut

31:57Fr. Ananiasthey provide a normative interpretation.

32:00Fr. AnaniasSo that's what I'm saying. The conversation switches

32:04Fr. Ananiasto that,

32:05Fr. Ananiasto analyze that.

32:07Matt SlickYou know, you you say a lot.Corrected

32:08Fr. Ananiasgonna be a difference between Protestantism?Corrected

32:11Fr. AnaniasWell, it's it's...

32:12Fr. AnaniasI can't make a point. I mean, I stopped for... To let you make a point. You can go.

32:16Matt SlickLook. You're you're, you know, you're speaking for long periods. I ask you a simple question. You don't give me a simple answer. By the way, I have a friend

32:24Matt Slickwho's a walking quad. He's only like 12 in the entire world. He's Eastern Orthodox. We've had many discussions.

32:30Matt SlickI mean, I'm familiar with a lot of what goes on, and you remind me of him. You don't appeal to God's word. You appeal to your church authority, church system, church structure,

32:39Matt Slickchurch history, church fathers,

32:42Matt Slickthis is Hold what you

32:43Matt Slickon. Hey.

32:45Matt SlickThis is what you do. I wanna go to God's word, directly to God's word to test to see if you're on the right track,

32:51Matt Slickand you don't wanna do it.

32:53Matt SlickYou wanna go to man's......Corrected

32:55Fr. Ananiasestablished You haven't...established

32:56Matt SlickYou wanna go... Hold on.

32:58Matt SlickYou wanna go to man's councils, man's traditions, man's authority.

33:02Matt SlickI say, let's go to God's word. Let's look at God's word. I... And I go to John to John eleven thirty nine. Just a test. Jesus wept. You said I was correct.

33:12Matt SlickYour implication was that I need all this authority. It has to be church history

33:16Matt Slickand councilsCorrected

33:17Fr. AnaniasYou are not allowed to say that it's God's word. You have a fallible list of infallible books by fallible men,Corrected

33:24Fr. Ananiasand you're saying... And I don't have to justify that because you agree for different reasons

33:29Fr. Ananiasthat it's god's word, it's authoritative and inspired. And I'm just gonna borrow from you, and I don't have to justify that.

33:37Fr. AnaniasYou're not allowed to do that. You have to justify that.

33:40Fr. AnaniasYou're not in a position

33:42Fr. Ananiasto actually say that it's god's word. Borrowing from my principles because you reject my principles is is me being Eastern Orthodox.Corrected

33:52Fr. AnaniasSo... No. You can't say I can go to God's word and look at what God's word is. You don't know what God's word is. You have to borrow from Orthodox principles and then deny them at the same time,

34:04Fr. Ananiasand you can't do that.

34:06Fr. AnaniasThat's self refutingCorrected

34:08Fr. AnaniasSo, no, I'm not going to grant you that you, as a Protestant, are able to say what God's word is

34:15Fr. Ananiasor how to interpret it while rejecting the principles

34:18Fr. Ananiasthat tell you what god's word is and how to interpret it from the Eastern Orthodox

34:24Fr. Ananiaspoint of view.

34:25Fr. AnaniasSo I'm not going there. I don't have to go there. And what you're gonna say is I don't need to be... Justify that. You do need to justify that.

34:35SethSo

34:40Matt SlickSo I'm afraid to say anything lest you give me anotherCorrected

34:44Matt Slicktwo hour monologue after interrupting me.

34:51Fr. AnaniasCorrect me, guys. If you think I'm interrupting and I'm being rude, you let me know, but I have to make a point.

34:56Fr. AnaniasI think I got

34:57Mnestheusthat. You're fine. I mean I mean

34:59Fr. AnaniasI'll manage, and I'm gonna... I let you talk. Go ahead.

35:03MnestheusThis is a back and forth. You're fine. I mean, if

35:06Mnestheusif the point is is long winded,

35:10Mnestheusmaybe there can be some interjection. But

35:13Mnestheusas long as you made your point clear,

35:16Mnestheusthat's fine.

35:20Matt SlickSo

35:21Matt Slickhere's how it is.

35:23Matt SlickIf I say anything, this guy's gonna interrupt

35:26Matt Slickand then give a two minute response to something

35:30Matt Slickbefore I even finish my sentence.

35:33Matt SlickSo the moderators,

35:34Matt Slickwhoever it is, needs to step in and say, hey. Hold on. Be fair.

35:38Matt SlickThat's all I'm asking.

35:40MnestheusYeah. Yeah. You can take a you can take a... You can also take a few minutes if you want, Matt, to make your point, and then maybe we can have that

35:47Matt SlickMy point isCorrected

35:48Mnestheusfollow-up

35:48Mnestheuswith you.Corrected

35:49Matt SlickI asked him, for example, how does he know the councils are correct? He can't answer.

35:54Matt SlickI just want him to to tell me how he

35:57Matt Slickpersonally

35:57Matt Slickknows for a fact that the councils are are correct? His Eastern Orthodox councils and all that. How does he know that? SoCorrected

36:06MnestheusThrough the Holy Spirit.

36:08Fr. AnaniasOh, can I answer?

36:09MnestheusYep. Go ahead.

36:11Fr. AnaniasWe're gonna answer the same way that that you do about scripture, the holy spirit.

36:17Fr. AnaniasThe mechanism is gonna be different

36:19Fr. Ananiasbecause of the holy spirit that guides us into all truth.

36:24Fr. AnaniasAnd what we're gonna look at is,

36:27Fr. Ananiasdoes this bear a continuity

36:29Fr. Ananiaswith the teachings of the apostles

36:32Fr. Ananiasand the early church?

36:35Fr. AnaniasAnd it does. So that's exactly,

36:37Fr. Ananiasyou get a precedent of this in acts.

36:41Fr. AnaniasYou get the early councils

36:43Fr. Ananiaswhere it says it seemed good to, and all the ecumenical councils, it seemed good to us and the holy spirit.

36:51Fr. AnaniasKnow that Christ

36:52Fr. Ananiasestablished his church and apostles

36:55Fr. Ananiaswith a hierarchy

36:56Fr. Ananiasof bishops,

36:59Fr. Ananiasthat when they met together as a whole in the Catholicity of the church, that the holy spirit was present and guided them into. So I... To make a long answer

37:08Fr. Ananiasshort,

37:09Fr. Ananiasthrough the holy spirit

37:10Fr. Ananiasand the mechanism that I just listed out that has both

37:14Fr. Ananiashistorically

37:15Fr. Ananiasverified

37:17Fr. Ananiaswithin the entire

37:18Fr. Ananiasorthodox or the whole two thousand years of the church that's remained unchanged.

37:23Fr. AnaniasThat's how we know.

37:24Matt SlickWell, you sure begged the question and just read a lot of stuff in there.

37:31Matt SlickSo how do you know that they're true? Because you said the Holy Spirit.

37:35Matt SlickRight?

37:36Matt SlickAnd then what you did was you said that the Holy Spirit supports your position,

37:42Matt Slickso you gave us some nice interpretation.

37:45Matt SlickSo

37:45Fr. AnaniasCan I respond,

37:46Fr. Ananiasor do you wanna go?

37:47MnestheusGo ahead.

37:48Matt SlickWell, why not go ahead and respond? Because you're good at the two, three minute responses.

37:53Fr. AnaniasI'll I'll give you... You give a two, three minute response.

37:57Fr. AnaniasYou can go.

37:57MnestheusSo how about how about how... Since, Matt,

38:01Mnestheusyou gave...

38:02MnestheusThat was mainly a minute, a minute and a half. So how about we give father deacon a minute a minute and a half to to get his point across?

38:11Fr. AnaniasThank you. So,

38:13Fr. Ananiasagain,

38:15Fr. AnaniasI'm begging the question. It's not my view. This is accessible to anybody

38:20Fr. Ananiasin history.

38:22Fr. AnaniasCan we look

38:23Fr. Ananiasat the history

38:25Fr. Ananiason the life of the church?

38:27Fr. AnaniasHow

38:28Fr. Ananiasthe church was organized,

38:31Fr. Ananiasthe councils that were set, and how that guided into as a normative body

38:37Fr. Ananiasfor both the canonization of scripture that's binding upon all Christians

38:41Fr. Ananiasand the interpretation of both scripture and doctrine.

38:45Fr. AnaniasThat's not something that's presupposed in my view. That's that's something that's

38:49Fr. Ananiasuniversally and publiclyCorrected

38:51Fr. Ananiasaccessible. So that was incorrect. I was just gonna say that.

38:56Matt SlickHow do you know what the history of those churches did was correct?

39:05Fr. AnaniasOkay. So

39:07Fr. Ananiaswe have Saint Vincent of Lerins that saysCorrected

39:10Fr. Ananiasin deciding these matters, what was believed by all Christians...

39:14Fr. AnaniasSo who actually... Let me ask a question.

39:17Fr. AnaniasAre you asking the cause?

39:20Fr. AnaniasHow do you know

39:21Fr. Ananiaswhat is the cause or the mechanism in which that cause works?

39:26Matt SlickI said, how do you know? How do you? You.

39:29Matt SlickYou.

39:31Matt SlickNot the person next to you, not your neighbor, you. How do you know that the history of all these churches and what they did is correct?

39:40Fr. AnaniasLook through the Holy Spirit.

39:43Matt SlickWait a minute. Are you telling me that you're subjecting all of this to your personal understanding

39:49Matt Slickby the Holy Spirit working through you?

39:51Fr. AnaniasNow you're switching the question to cause and mechanism in which the Holy Spirit works.

39:57Matt SlickYou said by the Holy Spirit. You said I said, how do you personally know? You're saying by the Holy Spirit. So that's telling me that you're saying the Holy Spirit is working through you, and that's how you know because the Holy Spirit's working through you. That's how you know all the history of these churches and stuff is through.

40:13Fr. AnaniasThrough implies mechanism.

40:15Fr. AnaniasSo now you're confusing categories.

40:17Fr. AnaniasThat's why I asked you.

40:19Fr. AnaniasYou asked me by what... How do I know by what cause? The holy spirit, the same as you.

40:24Matt SlickSo you're telling me then

40:25Fr. Ananiasand then you switched and put in a question about the mechanismCorrected

40:28Fr. Ananiasthrough you.

40:29Fr. AnaniasI didn't say that. Through me.

40:32Fr. AnaniasI can... I just listed what the mechanism in which the holy spirit works.

40:36Matt SlickDid the holy spirit reveal this to you internally?

40:41Fr. AnaniasHe revealed it to mankind in history, which includes

40:45Fr. Ananiasall

40:45Matt SlickThat's begging the question.

40:47Matt SlickYou beg the question means you're assuming the thing to be true you're trying to prove. So I ask you how you know the holy spirit is working that through these councils, you appeal to the councils. You can't do that, otherwise, you violate YouCorrected

40:57Matt Slickviolate the laws of logic. Very thing you said about begging the question to begin with. I'm asking you, how do you personally know that those churches did what was correct?Corrected

41:05Fr. AnaniasI appealed... You're switching the question.

41:08Matt SlickNo. I'm not. How do you know personally that they're correct? Okay.

41:13MnestheusHow about how about let's clarify? Matt,

41:17Mnestheuswhat question are you asking? And may the father deacon, why is he switching the question?

41:23Matt SlickI I wanna know how he knows by what criteria

41:27Matt Slickdoes he judge

41:29Matt Slickthat the history, these churches, the councils,

41:32Matt Slickwhat they taught was correct.

41:34MnestheusOkay. And and, father deacon, how is he switching the question? How is that a different question?

41:40Fr. AnaniasBecause he's switching... He's conflating two categories, the causeCorrected

41:44Fr. Ananiasand then the means by which one affirms that cause or the mechanisms.

41:50Fr. AnaniasSo I can answer the

41:52Fr. Ananiasquestion, it's by the holy spirit. We all we all hold that. Now the question then becomes

41:59Fr. Ananiasmeans by which you

42:01Fr. Ananiasknow that

42:02Fr. Ananiasthat is the cause and the mechanism.

42:05Fr. AnaniasAnd that's why I attempted to give an answer

42:08Fr. Ananiasthat,

42:09Fr. Ananiasdoes not beg the question,

42:12Fr. Ananiasbut is accessible universally to all

42:15Fr. Ananiasthrough history.

42:17Fr. AnaniasWhat has, as Saint Vincent Lerins says, been practiced and preached everywhereCorrected

42:22Fr. Ananiasin all places at all times.

42:25Fr. AnaniasOkay.

42:26Matt SlickI'm trying to ask a simple question, and you are just obfuscating.

42:30Matt SlickAre are you... I'm trying to clarify. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit bears witness in you that these councils

42:36Matt Slickwere correct?

42:40Fr. AnaniasIt... I said it bears witness

42:43Fr. Ananiasin history

42:45Fr. Ananiasto mankind.

42:47Matt SlickIt bears witness.

42:48Fr. AnaniasIs is is Christ...

42:51Fr. AnaniasIs this any... Is Christ anyway

42:53Fr. Ananiasaccessible

42:54Fr. Ananiasto mankind in history?

42:57Fr. AnaniasDid God become part of history, and did he give his teachings in history? And then you ask me, how do I know that?

43:05Fr. AnaniasWell, in one sense,

43:07Fr. AnaniasI can look at history like anybody else would know that.

43:11Fr. AnaniasAnd you're saying that begs the question. I'm not really clear

43:15Fr. Ananiaswhy is it so hard to look at history and see

43:19Fr. Ananiasif there's...

43:20Fr. AnaniasMy starting principle,

43:23Fr. Ananiasprobably like yours,

43:25Fr. Ananiasis that God reveals himself

43:27Fr. Ananiasto mankind.

43:29Fr. AnaniasOkay?

43:30Fr. AnaniasAnd he teaches something.

43:33Fr. AnaniasNow we have all these different competing

43:35Fr. Ananiassects claiming this is what he taught.

43:38Fr. AnaniasOne way to test that is,

43:40Fr. Ananiasis this

43:42Fr. Ananiaswhat all Christians believed

43:44Fr. Ananiasat all times?

43:46Fr. AnaniasLook at history.

43:47Fr. AnaniasAnd I'm gonna argue, I'm gonna go back to my first point,

43:51Fr. Ananiasthat none of your positions,

43:54Fr. Ananiasmay sound them,

43:55Fr. Ananiasbut as the system as a whole,

43:57Fr. Ananiasdoes not fit with what

44:00Fr. AnaniasChrist delivered

44:02Fr. Ananiassaints

44:03Fr. Ananiasand the apostles,

44:04Fr. Ananiaswhich has been consistently believed and practiced at all times. Now

44:08Fr. Ananiasthat's not a special hard thing to do to look at history and see

44:12Fr. Ananiasis this consistent,

44:13Fr. Ananiasand that's what I'm calling you out on.

44:16Fr. AnaniasYour doctrines and your interpretation

44:19Fr. Ananiasdon't match the history...

44:21Fr. AnaniasThe consistent history of the church.

44:23Fr. AnaniasAnd that's pretty easy for anybody to look at and find out.

44:27Fr. AnaniasGo ahead.

44:29Matt SlickI

44:30Matt Slickasked you, are you saying that the Holy Spirit bears witness of you... In you,

44:36Matt Slickin your heart, in your mind, in you,

44:39Matt Slickof the truth of the church councils? That's what I'm asking. I'm asking a simple question, and you are obfuscating.

44:45Fr. AnaniasIs it a loaded is it a loaded question,

44:48Fr. Ananiasand does it imply a false dichotomy?

44:50Fr. AnaniasThat's my question back to you.

44:57Matt SlickOkay.Corrected

44:58Fr. AnaniasAs opposed to what?

44:59Matt SlickYou know,

45:01Matt SlickI've I've spent...

45:02Matt SlickI've been doing this for forty years. Okay?

45:05Matt SlickAnd I've talked to thousands and thousands of people.

45:08Matt SlickAndCorrected

45:08Fr. AnaniasDon't

45:08Matt Slickdon't even

45:09Fr. Ananiasdo ad hominem and just address the question.Corrected

45:11Fr. AnaniasOkay? Because you keep doing this and saying, I'm like this

45:15Fr. Ananiasperson

45:15Matt SlickCan you can you let can you let me speak?

45:18Matt SlickCan you let me speak? Yeah.

45:19Fr. AnaniasYou can speak.Corrected

45:20Matt SlickYou you attack me.

45:22Matt SlickYou attack me. You accuse me of several things.

45:25Matt SlickI go to respond.

45:27Matt SlickYou interrupt. I go to respond again. You interrupt.

45:30Matt SlickYou do this constantly. Yep.

45:32Matt SlickI've asked you the same question over and over again. You're not answering the question. What you do

45:36Fr. AnaniasI don't you

45:38Fr. AnaniasCan I ask you a question?

45:39Jay DyerI'm not yourCorrected

45:41MnestheusOkay. How about this, father, DeaconCorrected

45:42Matt SlickI'm just asking

45:43Fr. Ananiasyou. Ask any question you you want. I don't have to. And if you know anything about court of laws, you can object to loaded question,

45:51Fr. Ananiasfalse dichotomy,

45:52Fr. Ananiascomplex question. So I might specifically not want to answer a question because they're not legitimate questions.

45:58MnestheusOkay. So how about this,

46:00MnestheusMatt? Do you accept father Deacon's assessment that it is a loaded question?

46:06Matt SlickNo. I just asked him how he knows. He's what he's telling me all the councils are true. I'm just asking how do you know that? That's all I'm asking.

46:13MnestheusSo so let's ask How

46:14Fr. Ananiasdoes he know? Why wasn't

46:16MnestheusMaybe maybe let's ask father Deacon let's ask father Deacon why.

46:19MnestheusCan you tell us why you think it's a loaded question? Why you think it's an invalid question?

46:24Fr. AnaniasBecause when I answered holy spirit,

46:26Fr. Ananiasit wasn't satisfactory.

46:28Matt SlickWoah. Woah.

46:29Matt SlickThat that does satisfy me.

46:31MnestheusWait. Wait. Matt, let's let him answer. Okay. So when you answer holy spirit's what? Sorry.

46:36Fr. AnaniasIt didn't seem to be satisfactory because he continued

46:39Fr. Ananiaswith the question,

46:41Fr. Ananiasimplying that does it... And then he asked, does he personally...

46:45Fr. AnaniasSo I wanted him to clarify.

46:48Fr. AnaniasCan the holy spirit both personally

46:51Fr. Ananiasreveal truth

46:53Fr. Ananiaswhile working

46:54Fr. Ananiasthrough the church and the episcopate?

46:56Fr. AnaniasOkay. So that's why I wanted to make sure that it wasn't an either or question or a loaded question to answer. That's all I was... And I I

47:06Fr. Ananiasqualified and said, I don't have to answer just any question. If it ends up...

47:11Fr. AnaniasAnd I didn't accuse you. I said, if it ends up being a loaded

47:15Fr. Ananiasor complex question or false dichotomy, I don't have to answer it. That's all I said.

47:19MnestheusOkay. And, Matthew, you agree with what the father deacon said?

47:23Matt SlickWhat I'm gonna say is this.

47:27Matt SlickWhen I ask a question, how does he know? He says the holy spirit. Right? Then what he does is he goes on and on and on and gives me a whole bunch of new information. I say, well, I don't agree with that. And then he says, you didn't agree that I said the Holy Spirit.

47:41Matt SlickYou see, that's a misrepresentation.

47:43Matt SlickThe problem here is he doesn't give succinct answers.

47:46Matt SlickSo if he says the Holy Spirit, I say, I agree. That's how we know. People who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit bears witness of the truth of Christ.

47:57Matt SlickIt doesn't bear witness of church councils.

48:00MnestheusSo Okay. Well, I would There's a

48:02Fr. Ananiasfalse dichotomy. That's exactly what I wanted you to say. So I got you on that. Wait.

48:07Fr. AnaniasOkay.Corrected

48:08Matt SlickGuys.

48:08Fr. AnaniasAn either or, and that's a false dichotomy.

48:10MnestheusWait. Wait. Wait. Maybe that's that's that. Matt, do you think that, for example, the the holy spirit... Maybe I think the point of father deacon is that,

48:19Mnestheusdo you agree, Matt, that the holy spirit can work through these church councils?

48:24MnestheusBecause the church councils

48:24Matt SlickOf course, I do.

48:26MnestheusRight. Okay.Corrected

48:28Fr. AnaniasInfallibly?

48:30Matt SlickNo.

48:31Matt SlickThey're not inspired.

48:33Fr. AnaniasOh, really? And how would you know that?

48:35Matt SlickBecause the word of God is is inspired to... Only thing said to be inspired is the word of God. I have to go with scripture. And

48:43Mnestheusthe word of God can go from there since... I think there's been a

48:46Fr. Ananiasa lot of books are in the word of God.

48:49Fr. AnaniasAnd why not to counsel the word of God? In fact, they start off saying it seemed good to us and the holy spirit.

48:56Fr. AnaniasThere'sCorrected

48:57Matt SlickSo

48:57Fr. Ananiasthe word of

48:58Fr. Ananiasgod is present,

49:00Fr. Ananiasand they claim to be infallible just like scripture.

49:03Fr. AnaniasThey claim to be apostolic,

49:05Fr. Ananiasright, as as this apostolic succession.

49:07Fr. AnaniasSo I could equallyCorrected

49:08Matt SlickCan

49:08Matt Slickyou show me

49:10Matt Slickyou show me apostolic succession?

49:12Matt SlickCan you show me a scripture where apostolic succession is is verified?

49:16Fr. AnaniasWell, first of all, that begs the question.

49:19Matt SlickYou mean... Wait a second. Wait. Wait. Wait. Satan tempted Eve... I mean, Eve. When Satan tempted Jesus,

49:25Matt Slickhe responded with scripture.

49:27Matt SlickI'm not calling you Satan. I'm just saying he responded with scripture.

49:31Matt SlickI'm asking you, show me this. You said apostolic succession. I'm just saying, show me in the Bible.

49:36Fr. AnaniasIs that the only is that the only way? And if it's not in the Bible, is it not true? That's my question back to you.

49:41Matt SlickI didn't say if it's not in the Bible, it's not true because I can drive my car in the right hand side of the road. It's not in the Bible. Doesn't mean it's not true. So you're misrepresenting the issue. I'm asking you to show me apostolic authority from Jesus

49:54Matt Slickin the New Testament.

49:56Matt SlickYou made this claim that your history, your church has apostolic authority.

50:02Matt SlickGreat.

50:03Matt SlickThat's a claim you made. Now

50:05Matt Slickdemonstrate that the claim is true. If you go to those councils to say that the council say, hey. Look. We're the councils. We have authority. How do we know we have authority? Because we said so. That's begging the question, not acceptable.

50:19Matt SlickThe inspired word of God, which we know is inspired, which Jesus gave to the apostles, which Jesus, by the power of the

50:25Jay Dyerholy spirit, worked into

50:27Fr. Ananiasto say that.

50:28Matt SlickOkay. Okay. I guess I I guess I'm not supposed to talk, am I? I guess I'm not supposed to talk. Right?

50:35Matt SlickGo ahead. No. Go ahead. Talk. Go ahead. Go ahead.

50:37SethWithout default.

50:40Matt SlickAhead. Just do whatever you want.

50:42Fr. AnaniasNo. Go ahead. I ... finishCorrected

50:44Fr. Ananiasyour point.

50:45MnestheusWell well, so, yeah, finish your point if you want, Matt. It's fine.

50:49Matt SlickGo

50:50Matt Slickahead. Talk. Because it's... This is this is obviously one-sided.

50:54Matt SlickIt's obvious that when I speak, you gotta interrupt.

50:57Matt SlickBut it's obvious.

50:59Matt SlickSo go ahead. Just say what you want to say.

51:03Matt SlickYou're not gonna hear me no matter what. I ask you for scripture.

51:08Matt SlickGive me scripture.

51:10Fr. AnaniasAnd why do I have to do that?

51:11Matt SlickBecause I'm asking you to give me some... From the... Something authoritative,

51:15Matt Slicknot just your opinion,

51:17Matt Slickwhich you haven't validated as being true. Let me...

51:21Matt SlickYou know what?

51:22Matt SlickLook.

51:24Matt SlickYou keep interrupting me, and these guys don't call you on it. If I do, they call me on it. This is not fair. You guys need to stop that. You need to listen up.

51:36Matt SlickBe fair and be balanced. I asked you. I

51:40Matt Slickasked you. You show me from the word of God. You're the one claiming

51:44Matt Slickthat your church

51:47Matt Slickhas apostolic authority.

51:49Matt SlickAlright? You made an incredible claim.

51:52Matt SlickNow,

51:53Matt SlickI want you to prove it, but before you try,

51:56Matt Slickyou can't go to the councils

51:58Matt Slickto prove the councils

52:00Matt Slickbecause we know that they're full of... Some people were regenerate, some people were not regenerate, councils made mistakes, Councils have gone against each other. I could show you the church fathers, how they contradict each other. So you can't go to the councils. They're not inspired.

52:13Matt SlickThe bible, you would agree and I would agree, is inspired.

52:18Matt SlickWe know that. We know the words of Jesus are inspired. The words of Paul, inspired.

52:23Matt SlickShow me from the inspired word that what you're saying is true, that you have apostolic authority.

52:30Matt SlickGo ahead.

52:31Fr. AnaniasYou're not... First of all, you're not allowed to say it's the inspired word of God. You haven't justified that.

52:36Fr. AnaniasI can give that.

52:37Matt SlickYes. I can.

52:39Fr. AnaniasAnd so so how? Because

52:41Fr. Ananiasyou presuppose that that's the word of God because

52:45Fr. Ananiasthe book... I'll give you a list of... These are the books, and these are all the chapters in here that are the word of God.

52:52Matt SlickShow me from the scriptures.

52:54Matt SlickShow me.

52:55Fr. AnaniasSo you don't have to answer that?

52:57Matt SlickStop playing games. Show me from the scriptures.

53:01Matt SlickYou said the holy spirit.

53:03Matt SlickI say the holy spirit. The holy spirit bore witness in me. On the day of my conversion when the very presence of the holy spirit himself was there, and Jesus himself was there

53:15Matt Slickin the incredible

53:16Matt Slickpower of his presence.

53:18Fr. AnaniasHow do you know...

53:18Matt SlickAnd I knew I

53:20Matt Slickknew it was him, and I knew his word was true from that moment on, from a pagan occultist

53:26Matt Slickto converted to Christ....

53:28Fr. AnaniasKnow that? And how did you know what books are?

53:31Matt SlickAnd that's the way it is. The holy spirit bore witness just like you said. Now you're the one telling me.

53:36Fr. AnaniasI would agree in principle that's true. I'm asking you

53:40Matt Slickthat. From scripture. Show me from scripture.

53:43Matt SlickMe from scripture.

53:44Fr. AnaniasI'm not gonna grant you that because you're not in a position to say that scripture

53:48Fr. Ananiasis the word of God inspired

53:51Fr. Ananiassimply because I agree.

53:53Matt SlickDo you believe it?Corrected

53:55Fr. AnaniasBecause I... You can't use my principle in my paradigm in my faith to affirm

54:02Fr. Ananiasscripture

54:03Fr. Ananiasand then actually say, well, I believe it because I... I'm borrowing your

54:07Fr. Ananiasfrom your faith.

54:08Matt SlickNo. I'm not borrowing from your world.

54:09Fr. AnaniasThat's that's not a...

54:10Matt SlickI'm not borrowing from your worldview. I reject your worldview. So don't be making this constant mistake that I'm borrowing from your worldview. It's another mistake of many that you've made. I reject...... What works... Let me finish. I reject

54:22Matt Slickyour worldview as as eastern orthodox.

54:25Matt SlickI reject the validity of it. Absolutely reject it.

54:29Matt SlickNow, the the way that I know that it's inspired is by the testimony of the holy spirit within me. You cannot exegete my experience, my desire, my understanding. That's the way it is.

54:40Matt SlickEvery time you ask me, I'm gonna repeat the same thing, and you can say, I don't accept it. What I'm gonna keep doing is saying to you, show me the word Show of

54:48Matt Slickme in the scriptures your authority.

54:50Matt SlickShow me your church has the authority in the word of God.

54:54Matt SlickWhen I talk to a Mormon, I don't believe in the Book of Mormon, but I will use the Book of Mormon. Second Nephi twenty five twenty three, you're saved by grace through faith after all you can do. And I'll say, hey, do you believe that? Yeah. Are you doing all you can do? I can use their logic. I can use their references,

55:09Matt Slicktheir worldview against them because their worldview doesn't adhere

55:13Matt Slickto the truth.

55:14Matt SlickI'm asking you, as I wanted to go to the word of God, you're the first one who goes away from the word of God. You go away from it. I go to it. You go to church councils. You go to church history. You go to your sacred church. You wanna call it inspired.

55:27Matt SlickI say, let's go to the word, and you give me a reason why we can't. You give me a reason why we don't go to God's word. I wanna go to God's word, you don't want to. I wanna go to God's word, you refuse to. Let's go to God's word. You made the statement.

55:40Matt SlickYou said your church has the apostolic authority. Great.

55:45Matt SlickShow me from scripture the authority because I submit to that scripture.

55:49Matt SlickI submit to what it says.

55:51Matt SlickNow this is all you gotta do to prove yourself true and your church true is to go to the very thing I absolutely believe is inspired as you do.

56:01Matt SlickNow show me from God's inspired word that we both agree is inspired.

56:05Matt SlickShow me.

56:06Fr. AnaniasBut you're missing a more fundamental point.

56:08Matt SlickCan't do it, can you?

56:10Fr. AnaniasOkay. Acts six. Ephesians four eleven.

56:14Matt SlickWait. Wait. Don't don't steamroll. Don't don't steamroll. Let's go look. Alright. Acts... Entire...Corrected

56:20Fr. AnaniasOkay. So,

56:22Fr. Ananiaslook, you're missing a

56:24Fr. Ananiaslarger point.

56:25Fr. AnaniasI can, but I don't want to

56:28Fr. Ananiasbecause then I can't

56:29Matt Slickuse god's word to establish who took your position?

56:33Fr. AnaniasI'm going to the level of a principle.

56:35Fr. AnaniasYou are not in a position to say that it's God's word, and you goCorrected

56:39Matt SlickYes

56:39Matt SlickI am. I am. Am because I'm regenerate, because I'm a believer in Christ Jesus. God in flesh rule.

56:45Matt SlickIt's begging the... You better believe it's begging the question. I love my Lord and my savior Jesus. God in flesh who died on the cross and canceled my sin.

56:54Matt SlickThey don't. They believe... I guess you know what Mormon... Don't know what Mormonism teaches?...Corrected

56:57Fr. AnaniasMormons

56:57Fr. Ananiasmake all the same arguments thatCorrected

56:59Fr. Ananiasyou do.Corrected

57:00Matt SlickMormonism teaches that God came from another planet and has a goddess wife, and he has sex with her mixed spirit babies. And Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.

57:09Matt SlickWhen they say Jesus

57:11Fr. AnaniasBecause it doesn't match up with your interpretation of scripture. That's why it goes back to the principle.

57:15Matt SlickNo. It does. But it's not true. Is Not true. You know. Not true.

57:20Matt SlickYou are so full of it. You keep saying these things, and then you wanna run on it. I'm not gonna let you do it anymore. Now you listen up.

57:27Matt SlickMormonism, as an example, teaches in many, many, many, many gods. I can go to Isaiah forty three ten, forty four six, forty four eight, forty five five, and quote them to them and tell them there's only one God. What are gonna tell me? I can'tCorrected

57:38Fr. AnaniasSo I

57:38Fr. Ananiasto do an apologetic message.

57:40Matt SlickAre you going to say, I'm not done talking?Corrected

57:43Matt SlickAre you gonna tell me I can't go to God's word against a Mormon?

57:46Matt SlickAre you gonna say, Matt, I don't want you to use God's word against a Mormon and try and get him to reject his false doctrine?

57:55Matt SlickAre you actually saying that I shouldn't do that, or are you saying I should? Which is it? Should I do it or should I not do it? Please answer the question. Should...Corrected

58:04SethLet me interject

58:05Sethfor a moment.

58:07Matt SlickNo. No. You... Wait a minute. He has gone gone on for two, three, four minutes at a time. I've been patient. And then and then when he does this, when I do it, then you wanna stop me? I'm not gonna go with that. Please answer my question.

58:20Matt SlickAnswer my question.

58:22Matt SlickShould I or should I not

58:24Matt Slicktackle the Mormon's error with using the word of God?

58:28Matt SlickTell me.

58:30Fr. AnaniasNo.

58:31Matt SlickI should not.Corrected

58:31Fr. Ananiasbecause you're not in a position to affirm that it's the word of God.

58:35Matt SlickSo I should not.

58:35Jay DyerYou tell me I'm

58:36Matt Slickuse.Corrected

58:37Matt SlickDon't use the word of God against a Mormon.

58:40Matt SlickWow.

58:41Matt SlickWho else would not want me to use the word of God against someone in a false religion? Who else would say something like that?

58:48Fr. AnaniasWell, you're not even in a position. You are a false religion.

58:51Matt SlickI know who would say that. I know who would say that.

58:54Matt SlickSatan.Corrected

58:54Fr. AnaniasAnd Mormons

58:55Matt SlickSatan would say

58:56Mnestheusthat. Without

58:59Matt SlickSatan would not want me to use God's word against

59:02Matt Slicka Mormon to get him out of his false religion.

59:04Fr. AnaniasThe wicked twist scripture to their own dis... Destruction.

59:08Matt SlickHow do you know you're not the wicked one?

59:10Matt SlickHow doCorrected

59:11Matt Slickyou know you're not the wicked one? You're the one who avoids the word of God.

59:15SethHold on a minute.

59:16SethMatt, Ananias, hold on a second, guys. Alright. So two things.

59:22SethFirst,

59:23SethAnanias,

59:24Sethare you willing to go through

59:26Sethmaybe just a couple of passages?

59:28Matt SlickYeah.Corrected

59:31Fr. AnaniasYes. If we can come back to the principle.

59:33SethAlright. That's the second point. That's the second point. The second point, Matt.

59:39SethHold hold on. Actually, Ananias. The second point, Ananias.

59:43SethAfter we go through a couple passages,

59:47Sethare you... Will you then lay down this mechanism that you... Or this fundamental principle that you have been speaking about?

59:56MnestheusYes.

59:57MnestheusI would also like to interject just one thing. So let's go for that. So so, Matt Slick it seems that your fundamental claim is thatCorrected

1:00:04Mnestheusthe bible is the only

1:00:07Mnestheusis the only text that is the inspired word of God. Correct?

1:00:12Matt SlickYes.

1:00:13MnestheusOkay. So,

1:00:15Mnestheusfather Deacon, and do you agree with,

1:00:17Mnestheuswith Matt's Slick when he says that the Bible is the only inspired word of God?Corrected

1:00:21Fr. AnaniasNo.

1:00:22MnestheusNo. Okay. So, maybe that is the distinction that

1:00:26Mnestheusyou both need to take into account that

1:00:30Mnestheusit seems that Matt only believes that the Bible is the only inspired word of God and father deacon doesn't. So maybe that's... But that that doesn't mean...

1:00:40MnestheusYep.

1:00:40Fr. AnaniasI don't see how it's irrelevant

1:00:43Fr. Ananiasto ask Matt to defend

1:00:45Fr. Ananiasthat, first of all,

1:00:48Fr. Ananiashow does he know in the mechanisms by which he knows it's the word of god?

1:00:53Matt SlickThe holy spirit of all that's me.

1:00:55Fr. AnaniasThat it's also...

1:00:58Fr. AnaniasOkay. That's not the mechanism. Right? That would be the cause.

1:01:02Fr. AnaniasOkay.

1:01:02Matt SlickThe mechanism is by his indwelling me.

1:01:05Fr. AnaniasOkay. Any heretic can say that. That's that's why I went

1:01:08Matt SlickYou asked me, I gave you the answer. Now what do you want me to do?Corrected

1:01:11Fr. AnaniasI wanted the second part of the question. The mechanism

1:01:14Fr. Ananiasby which you know that.

1:01:21Fr. AnaniasEvery heretic will say, well, the holy spirit led me to

1:01:24Matt SlickWell, here's my answer. You ready?

1:01:26Fr. AnaniasWhere is sola scriptura in scripture.Corrected

1:01:28Matt SlickHere's my answer. You ready? How do I know?

1:01:31Matt SlickOkay. You want the answer? I'll tell you the answer. Are you ready to actually listen?

1:01:36Fr. AnaniasMhmm.Corrected

1:01:38Matt SlickWhen I was 17... Are you gonna let me finish?

1:01:42MnestheusYeah. Go ahead, Matt. We'll let you

1:01:45Matt SlickI walked up in front of a church,

1:01:49Matt Slickand I thought I would give God a try,

1:01:52Matt Slickdoubting everything about him.

1:01:55Matt SlickBy the way, I've carried the body of my son to the grave. I wept that day. Now you never have to experience that.

1:02:02Matt SlickWhen

1:02:03Matt SlickI went up forward,

1:02:05Matt Slickdoubting and everything doubting,

1:02:08Matt Slickwhen I started praying, I might as well give God a try,

1:02:11Matt Slickall I can tell you, and if you ask me how I know, all I can tell you tell you is I just knew. That's all... That's my only answer.

1:02:19Matt SlickThe Holy Spirit himself came over me with such power

1:02:23Matt Slickthat all I could do was throw my face to the ground and in agony of my sin in the presence of incredible holiness,

1:02:30Matt Slickweep

1:02:31Matt Slickin the presence of purity

1:02:34Matt Slickthat was overpowering my soul, overpowering my thoughts,

1:02:38Matt Slickoverpowering everything, incredible

1:02:40Matt Slickholiness.

1:02:42Matt SlickAnd I wept. I can still... I'm 63.

1:02:44Matt SlickThat happened when I was 17.

1:02:46Matt SlickI can still remember

1:02:48Matt Slickthe multicolored fabric through the tears of the light reflecting up into my eyes. I can still see it in the agonizing

1:02:56Matt Slickpresence

1:02:57Matt Slickof my sin and the presence of holiness.

1:03:00Matt SlickAnd then, I'm skipping stuff, and then Jesus was to my left,

1:03:04Matt Slickjust to my left, back a little bit, couldn't see him, couldn't touch him, but I remember his awareness, I remember his presence. I remember everything about him.

1:03:12Matt SlickI his concern.

1:03:13Matt SlickI remember him being there.

1:03:15Matt SlickHow do I know it was him? I don't know how I did. It just was.

1:03:20Matt SlickThat's how I knew. It just was him.

1:03:24Matt SlickHe considered me.

1:03:26Matt SlickI was waiting, expectant,

1:03:28Matt Slickafraid,

1:03:29Matt Slickhopeful,

1:03:30Matt Slickfull of anxiety,

1:03:32Matt Slickfull of fear,

1:03:33Matt Slickfull of trust,

1:03:35Matt Slickfull of awe, full of everything mixed in.

1:03:38Matt SlickAnd then he stepped into me,

1:03:40Matt Slickand I physically had a sensation of his presence, and my sin left.

1:03:45Matt SlickThat happened when I was 17, and I've skipped a lot of it, and I wept harder that day than the day I buried my son.

1:03:52Matt SlickThe experience of his presence was incredible.

1:03:55Matt SlickI then went

1:03:57Matt Slickto the Bible,

1:03:58Matt Slickand it was the word of God.

1:04:00Matt SlickIt just was.

1:04:02Matt SlickI knew that Christ, in his great sovereignty,

1:04:05Matt Slickhad worked through the people who were his people throughout history

1:04:09Matt Slickto bring his word

1:04:11Matt Slickto where it was right there.

1:04:14Matt SlickI knew that he was in control.

1:04:16Matt SlickI knew that he wouldn't make mistakes,

1:04:19Matt Slickand so I trust him.

1:04:22Matt SlickAnd that's why I believe the word of God is what it is. Just as Jesus says, my sheep hear my voice,

1:04:28Matt Slickand they follow after me.

1:04:30Matt SlickI'm pointing you to the word of God. You point me to church councils.

1:04:35Matt SlickYou follow a different leader than I do.

1:04:39Matt SlickNow, if you wanna kiss, say, how do I know? I'm just gonna tell you, it was him. How do I know it was him? Because it was. How do I know? Because it was. That's as far as we're ever gonna get.

1:04:49Matt SlickBecause that's what happened.

1:04:51Matt SlickI've calmed down quite a bit since I was 17.

1:04:55Matt SlickNow

1:04:56Matt Slickthat's how.

1:04:58Matt SlickNow you're ready to go look at scripture at God's word, or are you gonna just avoid the word of God again and go someplace else in the church history?

1:05:05MnestheusLet's let's first let father deacon... Thank you for sharing that, Matt. Let's go first with father deacon, his response to how he knows

1:05:15Mnestheusthat, the the the the specific scriptures of the bible are are the inspired word of god.

1:05:21Fr. AnaniasSo first of all, I'd say that it seems to me that you appeal to extra scriptural

1:05:28Fr. Ananiasprinciples

1:05:30Fr. Ananiasto verify

1:05:31Fr. Ananiasscripture,

1:05:32Fr. Ananiaswhich you said you don't allow.

1:05:35Fr. AnaniasSo this seems to be ad hoc that if I can't appeal

1:05:39Fr. Ananiasto both history,

1:05:42Fr. AnaniasI can appeal to scripture,

1:05:44Fr. Ananiasbut it's not an either or. So this is one reason why I've been trying to reject. You're saying you only have to do scripture, and I don't have to justify with scripture.

1:05:54Fr. AnaniasAnd then when I ask you to do, you appeal to

1:05:58Fr. Ananiassomething that's not sola scriptura,

1:06:01Fr. Ananiassome type of extra biblical

1:06:03Fr. Ananiasprinciple

1:06:04Fr. Ananiasof experience

1:06:05Fr. Ananiasto

1:06:06Fr. Ananiasactually

1:06:07Fr. Ananiasverify that. I would say

1:06:10Fr. Ananiasit's through scripture,

1:06:12Fr. Ananiashistory,

1:06:14Fr. Ananiasand

1:06:16Fr. Ananiasthe councils,

1:06:18Fr. Ananiasthe life of the church, and the holy spirit. So one of the reasons why I've been reluctant

1:06:23Fr. Ananiasto answer your questions in the way that you frame them,

1:06:27Fr. Ananiasand you can correct me if I'm wrong, they appear

1:06:30Fr. Ananiasto be framed,

1:06:32Fr. Ananiasin a dichotomy.

1:06:34Fr. AnaniasIs it either this or that? You either have to go to scripture, and that's the only way. I reject

1:06:41Fr. Ananiasthe way that that's framed.

1:06:44SethAnd I... So you're suggesting it's a false dichotomy?

1:06:47Fr. AnaniasIt's a false dichotomy.

1:06:48Fr. AnaniasOkay? Now I've given you... I... I've tried not to accuse you of that and give you a chance of...

1:06:54Fr. AnaniasAnd you can correct me if I'm wrong on that, but it seems to me when you're saying you can only go to scripture

1:07:00Fr. Ananiasbecause,

1:07:02Fr. Ananiasthat's the only thing that I assume

1:07:04Fr. Ananiaswithout justifying, then you did give it... I I will give it to you that you did give a chance to try to justify that, but against your own sola scriptura principle by using extra biblical

1:07:15Fr. Ananiasevidence and principles,

1:07:16Fr. Ananiaswhich seems to be

1:07:18Fr. Ananiasself contradictory.

1:07:20Fr. AnaniasI'd say two things that I would critique you on. It does appear that you're making a false... Framing the questions in a false dichotomy that you only have to...

1:07:30Fr. AnaniasAnd that's... The holy spirit only can work through speaking through scripture

1:07:36Fr. Ananiasand

1:07:37Fr. Ananiasnot both and.Corrected

1:07:39Fr. AnaniasAnd, also, it's back to... It seems to me that you're begging the question, and you also

1:07:46Fr. Ananiasseem to refute your own position by saying

1:07:50Fr. Ananiasby appealing to extra biblical standards?

1:07:53Matt SlickLet me respond to that. I never said I reject anything not in scripture. You've accused me of that. I never said it.

1:08:00Matt SlickI don't deny extra biblical I do not deny extra biblical principles or evidences. I just check them and compare them with scripture, even the church councils.

1:08:08Matt SlickI did not say that the holy spirit can only work through scripture.

1:08:12Matt SlickSo you you you keep accusing me of things.

1:08:15Matt SlickYou don't ask me.

1:08:18Matt SlickNow can we go to scripture now?

1:08:19MnestheusYeah.

1:08:20MnestheusI guess I guess... Well, just one more clarification.

1:08:23MnestheusSo, Matt, you make a you

1:08:25Mnestheusmake a distinction between,

1:08:27Mnestheusinspired word of God and the holy spirit working through whatever, like, either councils or history? You make that distinction?

1:08:35Matt SlickThe inspired word of God is intended to be inscripturated

1:08:38Matt Slickas that which is being infallible in and of itself.

1:08:42Matt SlickGod working through church councils and histories is not infallible, not intended to be inscripturated.

1:08:48MnestheusOkay. So, like... Okay. So just to be clear, there's a distinction between the Holy Spirit working through

1:08:53Mnestheusscripture

1:08:54Mnestheusand the Holy Spirit working through other means. Right? Correct?

1:08:58Matt SlickThe Holy Spirit can work through all kinds of means,

1:09:00Matt Slickbut we judge the truth of it by God's word.

1:09:03Fr. AnaniasInfallibly by other means?

1:09:06Matt SlickWhen you say infallibly,

1:09:08Matt Slickyou're not defining what you mean in some context.

1:09:10Matt SlickI... When I prophesied once, which did happen, and it all came to pass, it was a detailed prophecy.

1:09:17Matt SlickIs that inspired? Is it infallible? Does it belong in the canon? Of course not. In first Corinthians 14, people prophesied, spoke in tongues, interpreted tongues. It doesn't mean it was inscripturated.

1:09:26Fr. AnaniasSo you say that's infallible. So that's different.

1:09:29Matt SlickI didn't say it was infallible. I'm just saying what happened.

1:09:31Fr. AnaniasPossibly.

1:09:32Fr. AnaniasIs it even

1:09:33Matt SlickNo. I'm not gonna say... No. No. No. No. I don't say it's infallible.

1:09:37Matt SlickThe word of God is infallible.

1:09:40Matt SlickYou do know what that means. Right?

1:09:43Fr. AnaniasYeah. Is

1:09:45Fr. Ananiaswell, I I reject that the only word of God would be

1:09:50Fr. Ananiasthe scriptures.

1:09:52Matt SlickCan we go to the scriptures?

1:09:56MnestheusYeah. How about weCorrected

1:09:58Jay DyerYes.

1:10:00MnestheusHow about we

1:10:00Fr. Ananiasgo to the scriptures? Let's...

1:10:03Fr. AnaniasBecause if we're not gonna get

1:10:06Matt SlickI've tried to answer your questions, endure your lengthy answers, and your avoidance of God's word.

1:10:13Matt SlickI wanna get to God's word.

1:10:16Matt SlickMy sheep hear my voice,

1:10:18Matt Slickand they follow after me.

1:10:20Fr. AnaniasTrying to get you toCorrected

1:10:29Matt SlickAre you there?

1:10:34Fr. AnaniasYou're

1:10:35Fr. Ananiascutting out. Go ahead.

1:10:37Matt SlickAre you there?

1:10:39Matt SlickCan you hear me?

1:10:42Matt SlickCan you hear me?

1:10:43Fr. AnaniasI can hear you.

1:10:43SethFather Ananias are you there?Corrected

1:10:45Matt SlickOkay. Hear you. Okay. Good. You can hear me. Good.

1:10:50Fr. AnaniasGo ahead.

1:10:50Matt SlickCan we go to

1:10:51Jay DyerGo ahead.

1:10:52Matt SlickGo ahead. Can we go to god's word?

1:10:57Fr. AnaniasYeah. But the... Okay.

1:10:59Matt SlickCan we go to god's word? Can we look at scripture? Can we consider what god's word says?

1:11:07Fr. AnaniasNo. Because I don't grant... I can, but I wanna make it clear that you still

1:11:13Fr. Ananiasare not allowing you

1:11:15Fr. Ananiasto actually call it god's word by appealing to... By your own principles that you appealed to,

1:11:23Fr. Ananiasand by the way, we have a name for that.

1:11:25Fr. AnaniasThat experience that you have, it's called spiritual delusion, prelest.Corrected

1:11:30Fr. AnaniasSo that doesn't because I have an experience at the Orthodox Church and everything they said through the holy spirit was full in its its entirety.

1:11:39Matt SlickWell, you're obviously on your way to hell. That's for sure. And how do I know? Because of scripture. Let's go to scripture. Because

1:11:46Fr. AnaniasI'm not going to...Corrected

1:11:48Matt SlickScripture.

1:11:49Fr. AnaniasNo. Because

1:11:50Fr. Ananiasscripture doesn't say that it's the pillar and ground of... the truthCorrected

1:11:53Matt SlickCan we go to God's word?

1:11:54Fr. AnaniasWell,

1:11:56Fr. Ananiaswhat's God's word and what's only God's word?

1:11:58MnestheusThis is why

1:11:59Fr. AnaniasI'm tryingCorrected

1:11:59Fr. Ananiasto get...

1:12:01Fr. AnaniasNo. Not if it's not clear that we have the same understanding and same principle and same justification.

1:12:07Fr. AnaniasThis obfuscates.

1:12:08Fr. AnaniasRight? This is the methodology that you're used to, and you're forcing somebody in by your own rules. And what I'm calling out in my apologetics

1:12:18Fr. Ananiasis the principle and justification of your own rules, and you're saying... You're just ignoring that. Can we go to scripture? Can we... No. We can't. I can, but that's not my apologetic method right now.

1:12:29Fr. AnaniasOkay? Because I'm questioning your principles,

1:12:33Fr. Ananiasand I'm saying that you're

1:12:35Fr. Ananiassetting up the rules of the game and begging the question and saying I can't call those principles into question.

1:12:43Fr. AnaniasLet's just agree on my terms.

1:12:45Fr. AnaniasI'm not agreeing on your terms. And what debates do and what philosophy is supposed to do is analyzeCorrected

1:12:52Fr. Ananiasthe principles in their justification. You're telling me that I can't do that. Let's just ignore that because

1:12:57Fr. Ananiaswe believe in words.

1:13:00Fr. AnaniasWe believe in sentences. We believe in... We don't believe in the same book for the same principles,

1:13:05Fr. Ananiasthe same canon, the same history, and ecclesiology.

1:13:09Fr. AnaniasAnd I'm not gonna pretend,

1:13:10Fr. Ananiasand it's not gonna go anywhere because I know exactly

1:13:14Fr. Ananiaswhat's going to happen. So the way a debate works

1:13:17Fr. Ananiasis to call into question the principles and the justification for those principles,

1:13:22Fr. Ananiasand you failed to do that.

1:13:26Matt SlickYou say I failed. I say I didn't. We go to scripture now. I wanna know if you're gonna look at God's word.

1:13:34Fr. AnaniasNo. I'm not gonna grant that to you. Yeah. I mean, is this hard for the rest of you guys to understand what I'm trying to do? You're saying, can we go and replay things by my my game? Right? That's the part of my game. And I'm calling

1:13:48Fr. Ananiasout what thingsCorrected

1:13:49Matt SlickHere's the hypocrisy in your position. You say you don't wanna play by my game. You only want me to play by yours.

1:13:56Matt SlickThat's what you're doing. You only wanna do...

1:13:59Matt SlickYou know, have a discussion if I do exactly what you want me to do. I've tried to answer you several times in different ways.

1:14:07Matt SlickI've tried to do that. I've talked about how the Holy Spirit can work through church councils.

1:14:12Matt SlickI've talked about how the Holy Spirit can work and bear witness within our hearts. I've talked about the word of God in John ten twenty seven twenty eight, where Jesus says, my sheep hear my voice. There's a spiritual connection there. I've said that. I've also said that I do not reject

1:14:27Matt Slickthe idea that God can work through extra biblical means.

1:14:31Matt SlickI've said this. I've answered you over and over different ways. I keep asking you, let's

1:14:37Matt Slickgo to God's word.

1:14:39Matt SlickYou keep finding ways to avoid the word of God.

1:14:43Fr. AnaniasBecause it's not agreed upon what the word of God is.

1:14:47Matt SlickDo you agree Colossians is the word of God? Let's agree. Do you agree? I agree. Let's agree. Right?

1:14:52Matt SlickOkay. Good. Let's go to Colossians.

1:14:55Fr. AnaniasYou're

1:14:57Fr. Ananiasnot understanding what I'm saying. We can agree

1:15:00Fr. Ananiasthat certain things of the word of God, but you have a specific understanding of this is the only word of God. I'm calling that into question.

1:15:08Fr. AnaniasIs that true? How do you know it? And how do you know? And this isn't my rules. This is the simple rules of debate that anybody

1:15:17Fr. Ananiasenters into, that you have to defend the principles that you're using to justify your claims.

1:15:24MnestheusOkay. So I'm gonna just interject here real quick. So,

1:15:27MnestheusMatt,

1:15:28Mnestheusyou

1:15:29Mnestheuswant father deacon to

1:15:32Mnestheusappeal to the word of God, which is your standard and foundation for for everything.

1:15:37Matt SlickYeah. He's he wants... Yeah.

1:15:40Matt SlickHe's required of me to to defend everything I've... I believe about the word Yeah. Different ways, which I already said I've done. I've tried different ways. He hasn't even tried

1:15:49Matt Slickto go to the word of God. What's his problem?

1:15:53MnestheusBecauseCorrected

1:15:53Fr. AnaniasI'm not a

1:15:54Fr. Ananiasprotestant and I don't believe in sola scriptura. I... We have a different methodology.Corrected

1:15:57Matt SlickThen whatever. Let's go to Colossians.

1:16:00Fr. AnaniasWhy?Corrected

1:16:01MnestheusOkay.

1:16:01Matt SlickBecause it's the word of God. I wanna see what you say about the word of God.

1:16:07MnestheusSo so, Matt, Matt, let... Maybe maybe let's just clarify here. Matt, why do you think that father deacon... Like, what is the... Like, you know, try to be as charitable as possible. Why do you think that it is that father deacon does not want to sort of inquire into the bible in order to further the argument?

1:16:25Matt SlickI believe it's because he's afraid of the word of God because he's not regenerate. He's serving a false master, and he wants to go to church history and the word of man rather than the word of God. That's what I believe,

1:16:35Matt Slickand I wanna expose it. Let's go to Colossians.

1:16:37MnestheusOkay. So, father deacon... I would just like father deacon to answer that. Father deacon, is it true that you're just afraid of the word of God, or is it for some other reason?

1:16:47Fr. AnaniasSo,

1:16:48Fr. Ananiasobviously,

1:16:49Fr. AnaniasI've gone the route of... I have plenty of scriptures that I can. Now what's gonna happen

1:16:54Fr. Ananiasis two things,

1:16:57Fr. Ananiasthat when we get into the things that I actually am going to cite within scripture...

1:17:03Fr. AnaniasOrthodox cites scripture all the time.

1:17:06Fr. AnaniasWe're gonna get into an exegetical.

1:17:09Fr. AnaniasWell, that's not what that means. That's... You know, this is what that means. Then it comes back to, again, the principle.

1:17:18Fr. AnaniasIs there a right of private judgment, or did Christ establish a church? Scripture says...

1:17:23Fr. AnaniasBy the way, Jesus didn't give you a Bible. He gave you a church, and the apostles testify to this. It says, it is the church that's the pillar and ground of truth,

1:17:32Fr. Ananiasnot scripture.

1:17:34Fr. AnaniasNow scriptures come out of the church, and they're not set dichotomy.

1:17:39Fr. AnaniasSo the reason I can do it, but I don't think it's a wise move

1:17:43Fr. Ananiasbecause, ultimately, it's going to get in every single thing that Protestants debate on, well, my interpretation's

1:17:50Fr. Ananiasright. No. Your interpretation's...

1:17:52Fr. AnaniasAnd it gets in this hermeneutical.

1:17:54Fr. AnaniasSo I've chosen

1:17:56Fr. Ananiasnot to... Not because I'm afraid of scripture. We produced your... The scriptures.

1:18:01Fr. AnaniasRight? It was our canonCorrected

1:18:03Fr. AnaniasIt was our authors that did this. We're not afraid of them.

1:18:08Fr. AnaniasThe reason why I don't wanna do it, it's not a wise debate move because, ultimately, we'll get into hermeneutics

1:18:14Fr. Ananiasof private interpretation,

1:18:15Fr. Ananiasboth claiming

1:18:16Fr. Ananiasto have the same cause,

1:18:18Fr. Ananiasthen we don't get to... Allowed to go into the mechanism. And then you say, I can't actually get in a conversation

1:18:24Fr. Ananiasback,

1:18:25Fr. AnaniaswhichCorrected

1:18:25Fr. Ananiasis gonna hinge on, on principles

1:18:28Fr. Ananiasand how we justify them for the scripture.

1:18:31Fr. AnaniasSo it's a debate move, and it's wise. I can do it, but I know exactly where it's going. And you're saying, no. You have to because,

1:18:39Fr. AnaniasI'm saying, know where it's gonna go, and I don't have to do that. I can.

1:18:43MnestheusI guess I guess we can bracket this discussion of the

1:18:47Mnestheussort of

1:18:48Mnestheusdebate about the first principles and maybe just

1:18:53Mnestheuswould you would you both be okay with that? We're just sort of, like, proceeding to inquire into a few passages and, sort of bracketing this discussion for another moment.

1:19:02Fr. AnaniasLet me let me reframe a question. Let's do scripture.

1:19:07Fr. AnaniasI wanna know how answers,

1:19:10Fr. Ananiasyou know, in, John twenty one

1:19:14Fr. Ananiastwenty five where it tells

1:19:16Fr. Ananiasus that the deeds and and teachings of Christ

1:19:21Fr. Ananiasweren't

1:19:21Fr. Ananiaseven all recorded.

1:19:24Fr. AnaniasIn fact, it seems to suggest the majority of it. For if they were all written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

1:19:35Fr. AnaniasNow we could say, well, we just... We don't know because it's not.

1:19:39Fr. AnaniasBut Saint Paul tells us in Thessalonians,

1:19:42Fr. Ananiasyou're to hold fast to the... And stand fast and hold those traditions,

1:19:47Fr. Ananiaswhich were taught to you either by word-of-mouth

1:19:50Fr. Ananiasor written.

1:19:52Fr. AnaniasAnd we have plenty of other verses in the Thessalonians and and... Where Paul's talking about

1:19:57Fr. Ananiasthe traditions which I hold fast to those traditions that I... And and to teach those traditions by word-of-mouth.

1:20:06Fr. AnaniasOkay?

1:20:07Fr. AnaniasSo

1:20:08Fr. AnaniasI wanna know,

1:20:10Fr. Ananiaswell, how do you know

1:20:12Fr. Ananiaswhat those are?

1:20:14Fr. AnaniasAnd,

1:20:16Fr. Ananiasclearly, he's making a distinction between

1:20:19Fr. Ananiaswhat's recorded and what's

1:20:21Fr. Ananiaspassed on orally.

1:20:23Fr. AnaniasAnd second of all, I'm gonna ask,

1:20:26Fr. Ananiasyou know, on what principle and how would you know that all the teachings would have to... Or the essential ones

1:20:33Fr. Ananiasbe recorded in in scripture? Where do you get that?

1:20:37Fr. AnaniasSo

1:20:38Fr. Ananiasthere's a move to go to scripture, and I'd like to see how you answer that.

1:20:43Matt SlickI just wanna go look at the scriptures.

1:20:46Matt SlickYou keep

1:20:47Fr. AnaniasI did.Corrected

1:20:47Matt SlickSaying

1:20:48Fr. AnaniasI

1:20:49Fr. Ananiasjust went to

1:20:51Fr. AnaniasI went to first Timothy three fifteen.

1:20:54Matt SlickWait a

1:20:54Mnestheusyou

1:20:57Fr. AnaniasJohn twenty one twenty five.

1:21:00Matt SlickBut

1:21:01Matt Slicklook.

1:21:03Matt SlickWhat you doCorrected

1:21:03Fr. AnaniasFirst Thessalonians two fifteen.Corrected

1:21:05Fr. AnaniasDid you not? I thought we were going to scripture.

1:21:08Matt SlickWhat you do

1:21:09Matt Slickis you just cite them, beg the question, and you move on. You don't give any chance for cross examination, and you say, see, I went to scripture.

1:21:17Matt SlickI've asked you specifically to go to Colossians and look at some specific verses,

1:21:21Matt Slickand you keep wanting to avoid this. I believe this because you're afraid. I honestly do believe that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe it. I've seen the same kind of avoidance.

1:21:29Matt SlickNow hold on a second. And as far as second Thessalonians two goes, you took it out of context. You don't know the context of the tradition there or second Thessalonians three six. You you haven't decided the context. You don't do any exegesis. You just tell what... Believe whatever the church fathers tell you. Whatever your church. No. No. No. Hold on. Hold on. I'm talking.

1:21:47Matt SlickYou know, you are so rude.

1:21:50Matt SlickYou're so full of it.

1:21:51Matt SlickYou will just go on and on and on and assume that your position is true. And when I ask you to verify it, you don't want to.

1:22:00Fr. AnaniasI just asked you a question.

1:22:01Fr. AnaniasI didn't...Corrected

1:22:02Matt SlickI'm asking... Hold on. I've asked

1:22:04Fr. Ananiasyou to...... Question you asked me.

1:22:05Matt SlickI asked you I

1:22:08Matt Slickasked you to go to Colossians two thirteen and fourteen. You refused to do it. I asked you to show me from scripture that the word of God... Excuse me, that, your church has the authority. You won't do it. I asked you for these things.

1:22:21Matt SlickYou asked me to to say, why do I believe the word of God? I have answered it. I've spent time giving you different answers,

1:22:29Matt Slickshort ones and long ones. I have tried to answer. No matter what I do, you say, well, you don't have the authority. You don't this. You don't that. You're just doing that, and you you throw out this stuff. I'm trying to answer you. You don't try and answer me. I want to go to specific verses.

1:22:47Matt SlickHave been saying this over and over again, and you... What you do is avoid it at all costs.

1:22:54MnestheusOkay. You

1:22:55Matt Slickdon't wanna go to what I want to go to to take a look at something Sure. To see if you can understand the word of God.

1:23:03MnestheusYeah. Okay. So I'm gonna just interject. So to be fair,

1:23:06Mnestheuswould you both agree to maybe each peak... Pick a verse, and then you can cross examine based on the verse that you personally pick? Or maybe one or two verses. You know? It it doesn't have to be one. Maybe one or two verses.Corrected

1:23:19Fr. AnaniasWell, I do. I... First of all,

1:23:20Fr. AnaniasI don't have to, and I... For strategic reasons, go to whatever verse that you want. Now I thought we agreed that we

1:23:28Fr. Ananiascould go to scripture, and I just wanted to... I pulled some scriptures.

1:23:32Fr. AnaniasYou wanted to do that. And I knew that I was gonna go exactly where it went, but I asked you a question about it. So now you're saying, I'm not happy with that. And if you don't go to the verse I want to andCorrected

1:23:42Matt SlickNo.

1:23:42Matt SlickThat's not what I'm saying.

1:23:43Fr. AnaniasControlled.

1:23:43Matt SlickWould you stop lying and bearing false witness against me?Corrected

1:23:47Fr. AnaniasOkay.

1:23:47Matt SlickYou put words in my mouth. Why are you so angry? Twist

1:23:52Matt Slickmy words.

1:23:53Matt SlickYou remind me of the cultists I've had to deal with over and over again.

1:23:58Matt SlickYou twist what I say.

1:23:59MnestheusWait. Wait.

1:24:00Matt SlickYou. I get angry at people

1:24:02Matt Slickwho twist what I say and lie.

1:24:06Matt SlickNow I'm asking you to go to something specific. I've been asking you for a long time to go to the word of God.

1:24:13Matt SlickYou are the one who doesn't wanna do it unless you fly by it through very quickly without looking at anything and then saying, see, this is what I do. See, I showed you scripture. I

1:24:25Matt Slickdidn't say you can't do anything. I said, let's go to Colossians two thirteen and fourteen and take a look at it together.

1:24:33Matt SlickLet's compare it to your Eastern Orthodox church.

1:24:36Matt SlickLet's compare it to your Eastern Orthodox church.

1:24:39MnestheusAlright. So do we do we both agree to do that? Just each

1:24:43Mnestheuspick one or two verses each pick one or two verses

1:24:47Mnestheusof your choice, and and then we can cross examine

1:24:51Matt SlickSure. Let's try that.

1:24:52MnestheusPosition. Okay.

1:24:53Matt SlickSure.Corrected

1:24:53Fr. AnaniasSo

1:24:53Fr. AnaniasI haveCorrected

1:24:54Fr. Ananiasstart from theCorrected

1:24:55Fr. AnaniasProtestant meth... Methodology

1:24:57Fr. Ananiaswithout that being justified.

1:25:00Fr. AnaniasAnd then we have to to argue things on the Protestant. I don't understand why that's

1:25:04MnestheusOkay. Okay. Okay. Don't

1:25:05Matt Slickgo the word of god. Please.

1:25:07MnestheusNo. No. Wait. Wait. Matt. Matt. Matt. I'm interesting why... So,

1:25:11Mnestheusfather deacon, could you, repeat that? Sorry. So you're saying thatCorrected

1:25:15Fr. AnaniasWell

1:25:15Mnestheuspicking and choosing versus is a Protestant methodology?

1:25:19Fr. AnaniasWell, yeah, presupposes...

1:25:21Fr. AnaniasAgain, it... Okay. What's the Protestant methodology?

1:25:25Fr. AnaniasWe go to the word of god, and that's the sole authority for... And then you've gotta do the... And then we'll argue out who has the correct hermeneutic.

1:25:34Fr. AnaniasWell, what if I were That's that methodology or is itCorrected

1:25:36Matt SlickMan.

1:25:36SethIs it an...

1:25:38SethDeacon ananias. Like, we've gone this far already. We've covered quite a bit of territory. I don't see why hermeneutics

1:25:45Sethis

1:25:46Sethis off

1:25:48Sethoff territory here.

1:25:51Fr. AnaniasBecause that ignores...

1:25:52Fr. AnaniasAnd I'll do it. Okay? But I'm telling you where it's gonna go.

1:25:55MnestheusOkay. Sure. I I understand your point, and it's a it's a problem. I would argue that that's a no point.

1:26:01Fr. AnaniasIt's gonna miss more fundamental,

1:26:04Fr. Ananiasquestions.

1:26:05Fr. AnaniasOkay?Corrected

1:26:05MnestheusYeah.Corrected

1:26:05Fr. AnaniasIt is which

1:26:06Fr. Ananiasthe hermeneutics

1:26:08Fr. Ananiasare based on. So we can get in hermeneut... But this is what Protestants do is they argue at the level

1:26:15Fr. Ananiasof hermeneutics

1:26:16Fr. Ananiaswithout establishing

1:26:18Fr. Ananiasthe principles. They just take it for granted. Okay? So I'll do that if you want. What is it? Colossians two fourteen, but I'm making a point

1:26:26Fr. Ananiasthat you're not justified in either the hermeneutics or calling this the word of god.

1:26:31MnestheusOkay. So I... I'll just ask you real quick, Matt. Like,

1:26:34Mnestheusto me?

1:26:35Fr. AnaniasMatt, Is that

1:26:36MnestheusYeah. He agrees...

1:26:38MnestheusSo he agrees to

1:26:40Mnestheusget into the hermeneutics,

1:26:41Mnestheusbut do you agree maybe to keep that in mind so when you proceed that he does not agree with this sort of methodology

1:26:50Mnestheusbecause it's it's it's sort of like presupposing a different prince... First principles.

1:26:56Matt SlickI just

1:26:57Matt Slickwant to go look

1:27:00Matt Slickat God's

1:27:01Matt Slickword.

1:27:06MnestheusOkay. So I guess we can just...

1:27:08Matt SlickI I have a different idea. I I got a new idea, guys. Seriously, this might help... Be helpful. How about this?

1:27:14Matt SlickLet's look

1:27:16Matt Slickat God's word.

1:27:18Matt SlickThat's a different idea.

1:27:20Fr. AnaniasWell, what should I say? God's word is

1:27:23Matt SlickCan we go to Colossians?

1:27:25Matt SlickCan we go to...

1:27:26Matt SlickCould we

1:27:29MnestheusIt's... Seems if we reached an impasse,

1:27:33Mnestheusand I don't know. Do you guys want to sort

1:27:36Matt Slickof see an opportunity

1:27:37Fr. Ananiasgonna be because I've gotten an argument.

1:27:39Matt SlickKnow? Why don't we go look at God's word? What are you afraid of? You're... You are obviously squirming and obviously afraid to go look at God's word. You know that I got something up my sleeve. You better believe I do. I got a verse that just refutes your theology.

1:27:54Matt SlickLet's see if you can understand the word of God. Let's see how good you are with your church history, with your councils,Corrected

1:28:00Matt Slickwith your authority.Corrected

1:28:00Fr. AnaniasYou can

1:28:01Fr. Ananiassee thatCorrected

1:28:01Fr. Ananiasyou you just revealed.

1:28:04Matt SlickOf course. What do you think this is? It's a debate. What do you think? I haven't read your opinion about it.

1:28:09Fr. AnaniasIt hinges onCorrected

1:28:10MnestheusI I think I know I think I know how I

1:28:12Fr. Ananiashave fruitful discussion because what it hinges on is gonna go back to... But I've got the correct interpretation.

1:28:19Fr. AnaniasI don't need to justify that. Right? So we can't... We're gonna disagree about the verse.

1:28:24Matt SlickGo look. Can we look?

1:28:25Fr. AnaniasIs there anybody

1:28:27Fr. Ananiasclear, like, doubt that? No. Because I don't think it's wise.

1:28:31Matt SlickCan we look for my I'll tell

1:28:32Matt Slickyou what I'll do. I'll I'llCorrected

1:28:33Matt Slicktell you whatCorrected

1:28:34MnestheusI'll do. I'll I have an idea, how about we look at the verse and

1:28:46Mnestheusthen maybe

1:28:47Mnestheusfather deacon can make a point about that very cross examination.

1:28:52Fr. AnaniasGo ahead. Colossians two fourteen, Matt.

1:28:55Matt SlickOkay. What I'm gonna do is... Since you don't wanna go to God's word, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take my time. I'm just gonna go through Colossians two thirteen and fourteen. I'm gonna tell you what I understand it to say. Okay? I'm gonna show you why the Eastern Orthodox Church is false. Now

1:29:08Matt Slickthis is what the word of God says.

1:29:10Matt SlickWhen you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision

1:29:15Matt Slickof your flesh,

1:29:16Matt Slickhe made you alive together with him,

1:29:19Matt Slickhaving forgiven us all

1:29:21Matt Slickour transgressions,

1:29:23Matt Slickhaving canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, was hostile to us. He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. That's a beautiful verse. I love Colossians two fourteen. I wanna put it on a t shirt.

1:29:38Matt SlickHaving canceled out the certificate of debt, the Greek there is the Greek word kerografon.

1:29:43Matt SlickIt only occurs right there.

1:29:45Matt SlickIt means a handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness.

1:29:48Matt SlickWhat's canceled?

1:29:50Matt SlickWhat's... Some translations say blotted out, removed, canceled. It's all fine. The certificate of debt, the handwriting of ordinances, one version says.

1:29:59Matt SlickBecause it says in verse 13, he he forgave us all our transgressions,

1:30:04Matt Slickhaving canceled out the certificate of debt. Now when is it canceled out?

1:30:09Matt SlickConsisting of decrees against us, which was also to us, he's taken it out of the way,

1:30:13Matt Slickhaving nailed it to the cross. I don't think it's exegetically

1:30:17Matt Slickbad to say that he canceled the certificate of debt having nailed to the cross. And the reason I say that is because that's what the text is saying. It says, having nailed to the cross.

1:30:28Matt SlickNow

1:30:29Matt Slickwe have two options what the certificate of debt can refer to. Since the immediate verse before is talking about this forgiven us all of our transgression, a transgression is breaking the law of God. You transgress the law.

1:30:42Matt SlickAnd first John three four says,

1:30:44Matt Slicksin is breaking the law of God.

1:30:46Matt SlickThat's sin he's talking about. Having forgiven us all our transgressions,

1:30:51Matt Slickhaving canceled out the certificate of debt.

1:30:54Matt SlickDebt.

1:30:55Matt SlickDid you know

1:30:56Matt Slickthat Jesus said, our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth it is in heaven. Forgive us our sins

1:31:03Matt Slickin Luke eleven four. Forgive us our debts in Matthew twelve

1:31:08Matt Slickthree.

1:31:10Matt SlickBecause he said... Twelve six. He says,

1:31:12Matt Slickhe... Jesus equates sin with legal debt, and our father who art in heaven. The two verses, Matthew six, Luke 11. Matthew six twelve, Luke eleven four.

1:31:21Matt SlickHe he says, forgive us our sins, forgive us our debts. Now Jesus

1:31:25Matt Slickcanceled out the certificate of debt having nailed to the cross. The sin debt's canceled at the cross, canceled at the cross.

1:31:33Matt SlickIf it's canceled, can you go to hell for a debt that doesn't exist anymore? If there's a sin debt there that Jesus canceled at the cross, can you be held responsible for it? No. Because it doesn't exist anymore.

1:31:44Matt SlickWhen did he cancel it according to the word of God? At the cross. Not when you get baptized, not when you do sacraments,

1:31:52Matt Slickand not even when you believe,

1:31:53Matt Slickbut when

1:31:55Matt Slickhe nailed it to the cross.

1:31:56Matt SlickNow you say, Calvinism is not in the Bible. That's a great verse for limited atonement that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect because if only the elect are the ones who are paid for, that makes sense. Then everybody else whose sins are not paid for, they go to hell because he canceled the sin debt. If you wanna say he canceled the sin debt for everybody who ever lived, then you're teaching universalism,

1:32:16Matt Slickwhich is heresy.

1:32:18Matt SlickBut if you wanna say he's not teaching universalism,

1:32:20Matt Slickthen you require logically limited atonement that Jesus only canceled the sin debt for the elect.

1:32:25Matt SlickIf you wanna say that the sin debt's canceled only for for everybody, but it's up to you to believe, No. The validity of the sin debts canceling is not based upon your belief. That's justification,

1:32:37Matt Slickanother topic.

1:32:38Matt SlickSo that's what I believe about the text.

1:32:41Matt SlickThat's what I believe about the text. Now tell me.

1:32:44Matt SlickTell me.

1:32:46Matt SlickWhere am I wrong? And show me from the scriptures.

1:32:49Matt SlickRight there. Oh, show me.

1:32:50Fr. AnaniasThat's that's exactly...

1:32:52Fr. AnaniasYou're presupposing

1:32:53Fr. Ananiasthe...

1:32:55Fr. AnaniasYour particular understanding of the scriptures

1:32:59Fr. Ananiasand saying you have to show me from the scriptures.

1:33:02Fr. AnaniasOkay?

1:33:02Matt SlickShow me what I just said.

1:33:03Fr. AnaniasThe

1:33:04Fr. Ananiaschurch fathers and the whole history

1:33:07Fr. Ananiasof the early church and the commentaries

1:33:10Fr. Ananiasfrom John Chrysostom

1:33:13Fr. Ananiaset al,

1:33:14Fr. Ananiasthey don't have the same notions of... They don't have limited atonement.

1:33:19Fr. AnaniasRight? And so

1:33:21Fr. Ananiasgoing to

1:33:22Fr. Ananiasscripture and you having

1:33:24Fr. Ananiasa new interpretation

1:33:26Fr. Ananiason the meanings of what debt

1:33:28Fr. Ananiascanceling out across, and it can only be this way. The only way to actually cancel out,

1:33:35Fr. Ananiaswould be this way and not sacraments,

1:33:38Fr. Ananiasis exactly

1:33:39Fr. Ananiaswhy I drove it back to the principles.

1:33:42Fr. AnaniasSo you're not in conformity with anybody in the church on your understanding of that verse.

1:33:48Matt SlickYeah I am.Corrected

1:33:48Fr. Ananiasam. Okay?

1:33:49Fr. AnaniasOh, really? Who? What what church fathers are

1:33:52Matt SlickOh, oh, you said anybody in the church. You didn't say church fathers.

1:33:57Matt SlickNow I I looked at the word. I'm asking each otherCorrected

1:34:00Fr. AnaniasI'd like to

1:34:01Matt SlickHold on a sec.

1:34:02Fr. AnaniasLike to see...

1:34:03Fr. AnaniasSo you get to go for a harangue,

1:34:06Fr. Ananiasand I can't actually answer the point.

1:34:09Matt SlickI'm still catching up with the harangues you've given. Can you look at the scriptures and analyze the scripture? Can you go through and comment on the actual word of God for change?

1:34:17Fr. AnaniasApart

1:34:18Fr. Ananiasfrom justifying a paradigm,

1:34:20Fr. Ananiasit'sCorrected

1:34:20Matt SlickNo. Just look at the word of God and just

1:34:24Fr. AnaniasNo. There is no just looking at... This is what you missed in the entire debate

1:34:29Fr. Ananiasis that... And this is what people do in evidentialist

1:34:32Fr. Ananiasapologetics.

1:34:34Fr. AnaniasWell, let's just look at the evidence.

1:34:36Fr. AnaniasRight? This is what... How people enter into debates with atheists. Well, let's just look at the evidence.

1:34:41Fr. AnaniasEvidenceCorrected

1:34:41Matt SlickYou're

1:34:41Matt Slickafraid of God's word.

1:34:43Matt SlickK.Corrected

1:34:43Fr. AnaniasYou're afraid

1:34:44Fr. Ananiasof God's word.Corrected

1:34:45Matt SlickYou're so afraid. You'reCorrected

1:34:46Matt Slickafraid to look at God's word and just and just open up and read it for yourself. You gotta submit yourself and drink the the EO kool aid Could just...Corrected

1:34:53Fr. AnaniasI can't actually...

1:34:55Fr. AnaniasLook. You're you're a really mean and nasty person.

1:34:58Fr. AnaniasOkay? I've been patient with you. You can accuse me of interrupting and all these things,

1:35:03Fr. Ananiasbut I'm doing a principle debate to call out your principles,

1:35:07Fr. Ananiasand you're saying I can't do that. Then I give you it, and then I wanna call that out that it doesn't match the principles

1:35:14Fr. Ananiason which the bible's from, and you ad hominemCorrected

1:35:19Fr. AnaniasI mean, is this even fruitful?

1:35:21Fr. AnaniasI mean,

1:35:22Fr. AnaniasI think I made my point. Right? And I'm not going to get into a Protestant hermeneutics because it's exactly where I went, and it's gonna come back as far as defending your interpretation.Corrected

1:35:34Fr. AnaniasIt's gonna come back to those first principles,

1:35:37Fr. Ananiaswhich you ignore.

1:35:39Fr. AnaniasAnd I'll end the debate with this, that you've neither justified that it's the word of god, that this is the only infallible word of god.

1:35:47Fr. AnaniasYou have not produced

1:35:49Fr. Ananiaseither in your interpretation

1:35:51Fr. Ananiasor your defense or lack of defensive principles

1:35:55Fr. Ananiaswith anything in history.

1:35:57Fr. AnaniasWhat have you done? You simply said, well, the word of god. Well, we'll just go to the word of god. And according to my paradigm,

1:36:05Fr. Ananiaswhich then imputes

1:36:07Fr. Ananiasmy understandings of the concepts of debt and cancellation,

1:36:11Fr. Ananiasyou have to accept that.

1:36:12Matt SlickOkay. So you lied. You said you'd go to look at the scriptures. You're not doing it.

1:36:17Matt SlickOkay.

1:36:18Matt SlickSo are you saved right now

1:36:19Matt Slickin your life?Corrected

1:36:20Fr. AnaniasLook at the scriptures.

1:36:21Matt SlickYou haven't... You... Oh, look with your eyeballs.

1:36:25Matt SlickGet in there and...Corrected

1:36:26Fr. AnaniasI had it I had up.

1:36:29Fr. AnaniasUp,

1:36:30Fr. Ananiasreading I had it while you were going on your harangue.

1:36:33Matt SlickWhy don't you

1:36:35Matt Slickexplain it? Explain what the certificate of debt is.

1:36:39Matt SlickExplain it.

1:36:40Fr. AnaniasBecause this stuff hinges on first principles, and it's a waste of time. I mean, this is waste

1:36:46Matt SlickIt's a waste of time to look at god's word?Corrected

1:36:50Fr. AnaniasIt's a waste of time when you don't agree on the principles that justify

1:36:56Fr. Ananiashow to interpret god's word, what god's word is, you still haven't established that. Right? So

1:37:02Fr. Ananiasyour argument here is, let's just turn to the god's word, and I don't have to justify that. And the only way I justify that

1:37:08Fr. Ananiasis through some type of experience, which you cannot justify.

1:37:12Matt SlickJust so you know. Just so you know.

1:37:14Fr. AnaniasFor all I know, that's theCorrected

1:37:16Matt Slickjustify itself.

1:37:17Matt SlickThe word of God does not justify itself.

1:37:21Matt SlickGod assumes and the scriptures assume their inspiration and their place of authority. Now

1:37:27Matt Slickplease

1:37:28Matt Slickexamine Colossians two verses thirteen and fourteen.

1:37:31Fr. AnaniasExamine the council. I can apply the exact same things.

1:37:35MnestheusI think we've reached a sort of an impasse here. So

1:37:38Mnestheuswould you guys be okay with just giving, like, sort of a brief conclusion of what you thought

1:37:44Mnestheusthe debate

1:37:45Mnestheuswas about and how it went for you and just, like, closing remarks about the overall argument that each gave. And, you know, I'm just gonna ask you to

1:37:55Mnestheusjust be charitable, no ad homo... Ad hominems please, just to sort of talk about the argument,Corrected

1:38:00Mnestheusno character

1:38:02Mnestheussort of attacks. Thank you.

1:38:06MnestheusSo, Matt, you wanna start or father do you No. He can

1:38:09Matt Slickgo first.

1:38:10MnestheusOkay.

1:38:12MnestheusWell Okay.Corrected

1:38:13Fr. AnaniasDo

1:38:14Fr. Ananiasyou want me to Matt I mean, I don't mind either way.Corrected

1:38:16MnestheusHow about... Let's let's make this fair because, you know, obviously,

1:38:20Mnestheusthe one who has the last word

1:38:22Mnestheusseems to have a rhetorical advantage.

1:38:25MnestheusI don't know.

1:38:26Fr. AnaniasThe first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

1:38:30Fr. AnaniasIs that... I'm just passing.

1:38:32MnestheusIs there a way to make this fair? Does anyone?

1:38:34MnestheusSept, do you have an idea how to flip a coin? May I ask Sept, do you wanna flip flip flip a coin?

1:38:40SethYeah. Sure.

1:38:41MnestheusAlright.

1:38:43MnestheusSeth is impartial. He doesn't really have a sort ofCorrected

1:38:48SethAlright. Who said it's tails?

1:38:53SethMatt is heads.

1:38:55Fr. AnaniasOkay. I'll take You

1:38:56Sethcan get his tails.

1:38:58MnestheusAlright.

1:38:59SethAlright.

1:39:00SethHeads wins. Matt goes first.

1:39:02Matt SlickAlright.

1:39:03Matt SlickGo ahead.

1:39:08Fr. AnaniasI thought that was what Heads was.

1:39:10Matt SlickYeah. Go ahead. You can go first. My desire, since I won, is for you to go first. Go ahead.

1:39:15Fr. AnaniasOh, is that is that what it was, guys?

1:39:17MnestheusOh, we... Who who who got the coin flip?

1:39:21Matt SlickExcuse me, but you... Don't don't tell me

1:39:23Sethcoin flip.

1:39:24Matt SlickDon't tell me that I'm not interpreting that properly.

1:39:28Matt SlickGo ahead. Yeah.

1:39:29Fr. AnaniasNow your first principles on that... Of the interpretation of the coin, I'm I'm just messing.

1:39:35Fr. AnaniasNo. I wasn't clear if it's

1:39:38Fr. Ananiasthe... Who got the the win gets to decide who goes or if that was the first.

1:39:43Fr. AnaniasSo

1:39:44Fr. Ananiasyou wanna go first? Is that what the... The winner Go ahead. Goes first. Is that... Just so I'm I'm clear on

1:39:52Fr. Ananiaswhat that meant.

1:39:55SethYeah. That's all it meant.

1:39:57Fr. AnaniasOkay. Alright.

1:39:59Fr. AnaniasSo

1:40:01Fr. Ananiaslike any debate,

1:40:03Fr. Ananiasyou debate with atheist,

1:40:06Fr. Ananiasyou don't

1:40:07Fr. Ananiasgrant your opponent just because you agree, for example, that logic works and it justifies certain things

1:40:15Fr. Ananiasthat without them justifying it.

1:40:18Fr. AnaniasAnd so this is a principled

1:40:20Fr. Ananiasdebate about paradigms

1:40:22Fr. Ananiasand worldviews.

1:40:25Fr. AnaniasNow the way paradigms and worldviews

1:40:27Fr. Ananiasare analyzed is not piecemeal

1:40:30Fr. Ananiasby agreeing to,

1:40:32Fr. Ananiaswell, we all agree to words and logic,

1:40:35Fr. Ananiasbut you rise to the level of principles

1:40:38Fr. Ananiasand the justification for those principles.

1:40:43Fr. AnaniasThat's why I would not grant Matt, my opponent who holds a different worldview and faith,

1:40:50Fr. Ananiaseven though, like the atheist who might believe

1:40:53Fr. Ananiasin logic,

1:40:56Fr. Ananiaswe don't use that as a first principle epistemic starting point, but look for the justifications for that.

1:41:03Fr. AnaniasNow I could have, but I think that's a bad apologetic method.

1:41:07Fr. AnaniasIt's not fruitful.

1:41:10Fr. AnaniasAnd, again, at the level of paradigms

1:41:12Fr. Ananiasand faith, you analyze principles

1:41:15Fr. Ananiasand their justification

1:41:17Fr. Ananiaseven if there's things that you hold in common.

1:41:20Fr. AnaniasSo I tried to steer the debate

1:41:23Fr. Ananiasinto an analysis of that by looking at both the continuity of history

1:41:29Fr. Ananiasof god's people and the church and the church fathers

1:41:33Fr. Ananiasand what was said in scripture as well

1:41:37Fr. Ananiasas history, the fathers, and the councilsCorrected

1:41:41Fr. Ananiasto provide the justification for the principles of which we both hold

1:41:45Fr. Ananiasto be true.

1:41:47Fr. AnaniasSo debates are about justifications

1:41:50Fr. Ananiasof principles.

1:41:52Fr. AnaniasAnd what I saw was that Matt wanted to ignore that and redefine how typical debates

1:41:59Fr. Ananiasof worldviews and paradigms proceed

1:42:03Fr. Ananiasby saying, well, let's go to the word of God, and I don't have to justify that.

1:42:07Fr. AnaniasSo I called that out.

1:42:11Fr. AnaniasAnd, again, it resulted...

1:42:13Fr. AnaniasI gave him the benefit of the doubt,

1:42:16Fr. Ananiasand it resulted in hermeneutics

1:42:19Fr. Ananiasof interpretation,

1:42:21Fr. Ananiasand hermeneutics depend

1:42:23Fr. Ananiason first principles

1:42:25Fr. Ananiasin justifying that. And because Matt was unable

1:42:29Fr. Ananiasto go to that level,

1:42:31Fr. Ananiashe both begged the question,

1:42:34Fr. Ananiasand was not able to provide any justification

1:42:37Fr. Ananiasfor either how he knows what the word of god is or the interpretation or any of the positions they have. So in conclusion,

1:42:46Fr. Ananiasdebates are about justification

1:42:49Fr. Ananiasat the principle and paradigm level, and Matt failed to do that.

1:42:54MnestheusThank you,

1:42:56Mnestheusfather deacon.

1:42:58MnestheusSo Matt's like...

1:43:00MnestheusWanna wanna go ahead, Matt?Corrected

1:43:02Matt SlickSure.

1:43:05Matt SlickHere we go. You failed to demonstrate

1:43:08Matt Slickby any stretch of the imagination how the councils which you affirm and submit to are true.

1:43:14Matt SlickWhen you... When I asked you this, you said, hey. You know, I appeal to the issue of the holy spirit, and you quickly added in two minutes of stuff.

1:43:21Matt SlickAnd you complain when I say the holy spirit bears witness or holy spirit bears witness to the truth. So when I appeal to the same thing you did, you had a double standard at that point and said, no. I can't do that.

1:43:33Matt SlickYou continually misrepresent me, and you did that quite a bit.

1:43:37Matt SlickFor one thing, you said, I'm an evidentialist. No. I'm a presuppositionalist.

1:43:41Matt SlickYou accuse instead of ask, and this is something you gotta to work on.

1:43:45Matt SlickNow when I asked... Answered you several times different ways that I affirm the truth of the word of God, the internal witness,

1:43:52Matt SlickI said the holy spirit works through history and the church to his to his people. I appeal to scripture in John ten twenty seven twenty eight. I quoted the verse,

1:44:00Matt Slickwhich you never said was not correct.

1:44:03Matt SlickSo I did answer you even though you said I didn't. You just don't like my answer. And by the way, when you appeal to church history, the church fathers contradict themselves a lot and go to go to CARM and look up the church fathers who said you're justified by faith alone. I got the documentation there.Corrected

1:44:20Matt SlickI corrected you several times on things, and I kept trying to get you to go to the word of God. You refused

1:44:27Matt Slickto seriously look at the word of God. In passing, you'll give some really quick scriptures, which you take out of context, which you don't give any time for cross examination,

1:44:36Matt Slickparticularly second Thessalonians two fifteen, the tradition now is handed. You don't even know the eschatological context. You don't even know what that is, and I do.

1:44:42Jay DyerIt's because you made it up, Matt. It's because you made that up. That's not a real hermeneutical interpretation. These are all your inventions, Matt.

1:44:51Jay DyerYou are in your own head.Corrected

1:44:53Jay DyerYou worship your own idol, your mind.Corrected

1:44:55Matt SlickModerators?

1:44:56Jay DyerThis not... This is totally disconnected

1:44:58Jay Dyerfrom reality.

1:44:59Jay DyerYes. Moderators.

1:45:00Matt SlickAre are you serious? Are

1:45:01Matt Slickyou serious?

1:45:04Jay DyerYeah. I'm serious.

1:45:06MnestheusYeah. Okay.

1:45:07MnestheusJay, just let Matt finish, and then you can jump in.

1:45:10Fr. AnaniasAlright, Matt. That was me imitating Jay for comedic.

1:45:14MnestheusOkay.

1:45:15MnestheusOkay. By the way Sorry about that. Sorry about that, Matt. Just just

1:45:18Fr. Ananiasjust I think it's sometimes funny just to add a little humor to to break things up. I'm a Yeah.

1:45:23MnestheusNo. Absolutely. Sorry. Who who muted Matt? Don't don't mute.

1:45:26Matt SlickAnd you don't even do anything. What is wrong with you?

1:45:28Jay DyerMatt is a humorless spirit.

1:45:31MnestheusWho muted Matt? No one mute Matt, please.

1:45:34Matt SlickYou muted me? YouCorrected

1:45:35Matt Slickmute me?

1:45:37Matt SlickWhat is with you guys?

1:45:39MnestheusI don't know if you muted

1:45:40Matt Slickyourself I on

1:45:41Matt Slickwas... I'm going through what I...

1:45:43Jay DyerYou're you're an effeminate.

1:45:44Matt SlickYou guys, no wonder you're EO.Corrected

1:45:47Fr. AnaniasWhat? Hey, man. I I was I

1:45:48Jay Dyerwas I mean, finish. I'm Hey.

1:45:50MnestheusHey. Hey. Guys. Guys. Guys. Guys. Please. Please. Let's just let... Okay. Let's be let's be... Let's let's just let Matt finish, and then we can have a q and a after, and Jay and and father deacon and Matt can all jump in. In. So, Matt, just, sorry about that. Just finish your closing remarks.Corrected

1:46:05Matt SlickSorry. Yeah.

1:46:06Matt SlickSorryCorrected

1:46:06Mnestheusabout that.

1:46:07Matt SlickBetter be.

1:46:08MnestheusSorry about that.Corrected

1:46:09Matt SlickShould not have allowed someone to come in and attack me who I'm not debating. That is not acceptable.

1:46:14Matt SlickNow, I'm gonna continue.

1:46:17Matt SlickI corrected him on several things. I never said that I reject anything not in scripture. He said I do. I corrected him. It's not the case. I don't deny extra biblical principles or evidences. He said I did. I don't do that. He misrepresented me over and over and over again.

1:46:34Matt SlickI just checked everything with scripture. Now it's obvious he couldn't exegete his way out of Colossians two thirteen and fourteen. He's afraid of that. That's that's just my opinion. I believe it. I firmly believe it. I continued

1:46:46Matt Slickto urge him and others to go to the word of God,

1:46:50Matt Slickand just so you know, the word of God doesn't defend itself.

1:46:54Matt SlickGod does not justify himself or his word. It just is the truth.

1:46:59Matt SlickThis guy violated so many rules of debate and so many rules of logic.

1:47:04Matt SlickI'm surprised he can drive a car. Yeah. That was a bit of a shot. But, hey, we're having fun, aren't we?

1:47:11Matt SlickYep. Go ahead.

1:47:12MnestheusAlright. Thank you. Thank you for that, Matt.Corrected

1:47:13Fr. AnaniasSo Well, that's not...

1:47:14Fr. AnaniasMatt, that's not funny because

1:47:17Fr. Ananiasactually

1:47:17Matt SlickIt is to me. My... It's my hermeneutic.

1:47:19Fr. AnaniasI'm actually handicapped, I can't drive a car. So I take that.

1:47:23Matt SlickI have Asperger's.

1:47:24Matt SlickOkay? I have autism.

1:47:26Fr. AnaniasI

1:47:28Fr. Ananiasthink that personally

1:47:29Fr. Ananiasis an insult.

1:47:32Matt SlickHow big areCorrected

1:47:33MnestheusGuys,

1:47:36MnestheusI guess we can sort of proceed to the Q and A. Guys,

1:47:40Mnestheusfor those who are you in the voice chat, direct your questions at Jay or

1:47:45MnestheusMatt Slick or Father Deacon.

1:47:54MnestheusHey, Seth.Corrected

1:47:56SethYeah.

1:47:57MnestheusYou wanna help me sort of gather the questions?

1:48:02SethYeah.

1:48:03SethAlright. So just write the questions out and

1:48:07MnestheusYep.Corrected

1:48:07SethSee which one is not being used. Let's...

1:48:11SethBatcave.

1:48:14MnestheusI'm just gonna have to back up here for a bit.

1:48:17SethYeah. So I could...

1:48:20Matt SlickBecauseCorrected

1:48:25Sethdebate's just being used for this. It's just constant

1:48:30Sethtext and debate. So

1:48:32Sethlet's

1:48:33Sethuse general. Let's just use general. Okay.

1:48:35MnestheusWow. A lot of people here.

1:48:37SethSo write the questions in general,

1:48:40Sethand I'll just pick as I see them or whatever,

1:48:45Sethwhichever one's

1:48:47Sethgood.

1:48:48SethI think it's good. Whatever.

1:48:53SethAlright. Let's start with ah ... umm.Corrected

1:49:03Matt Slick...Corrected

1:49:07Mnestheuslooks like we got our first question to father deacon Ananias.

1:49:11MnestheusDo you just appeal to the Holy Spirit to justify the councils, or did you use more than that? Because that would seem to be a defeater

1:49:19Mnestheusfor Matt's argument.Corrected

1:49:26MnestheusCan you guys hear me?

1:49:27Matt SlickYeah.

1:49:29Matt SlickMhmm.

1:49:30MnestheusIs father deacon

1:49:32Mnestheusunmuted or...

1:49:34MnestheusOh, maybe he's away.

1:49:36MnestheusSo I guess we're gonna have to

1:49:38Mnestheusask him when he gets back.

1:49:41Matt SlickYeah. He appealed to the Holy Spirit just like I did. And when I do it, it's not acceptable. When he does it, it's okay.

1:49:52SethOkay.

1:49:55SethMatt, question for you. Mhmm.

1:49:58SethFrom Dustin six. So is there anywhere in scripture that has a list of what books belong in scripture?

1:50:07Matt SlickNope.

1:50:14SethOkay.

1:50:15SethLet's see.

1:50:16MnestheusWell, how about how about we let just sort of Jay...

1:50:19MnestheusJay contribute to the

1:50:21Mnestheusto the questions here. Jay, you wanna sort of add anything to that?

1:50:32MnestheusOh, I think Jay is... Jay, are you muted?

1:50:37Jay DyerNo. I'm not muted. No.

1:50:39MnestheusOkay. Okay. Go ahead. So you wanna add

1:50:41Jay DyerThese are the questions that Matt can't answer because he just will appeal to scripture when the debate is about the means the holy spirit uses. Everybody has the same idea that the holy spirit guides an individual. It's not in... That's not in dispute.

1:50:54Matt SlickWhy don't you let me try and answer before