SophistStomp
Fr. Ananias and Jay Dyer vs Matt Slick: Orthodoxy vs Protestantism Debate
YouTube · ended
Participants: Matt Slick, Jay Dyer, Mnestheus, Fr. Ananias, Seth, Praxis
Report
**FINAL REPORT**
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**1. Participants and what each argued for**
Matt Slick (S0), a five-point Calvinist and founder of CARM, argued that Protestantism is true, that scripture is the sole infallible word of God, and — his opening thesis — that Eastern Orthodoxy's synergistic soteriology means it "does not qualify as a true Christian church" and that its adherents "will end up being damned."
Fr. Ananias (S3), an Orthodox deacon with a PhD in philosophy, argued that Slick cannot appeal to scripture against Orthodoxy until he can justify the canon and its interpretation without circularity, since both were produced and recognised by the Church he rejects. His positive case: Christ established a normative body — bishops, councils, apostolic succession — through which the Holy Spirit works, testable by public history and the Vincentian canon of what was believed everywhere and always.
Jay Dyer (S1) was billed as a participant but never argued a position. His six contributions were interjections, all abusive.
Mnestheus (S2) and Seth (S4) moderated and are unscored. Praxis (S5) asked the sharpest audience question of the night.
**2. Main claims, evidence, and disposition**
Ananias's canon argument — that Slick has "a fallible list of infallible books by fallible men" and borrows Orthodox results while denying Orthodox principles — was pressed all night and never fully met. Slick first refused the burden ("I don't accept your requirement"), then answered with the Spirit's inner testimony plus providential preservation, then with his conversion narrative, finally conceding "all I can tell you is I just knew. That's all my only answer" and, in the Q&A, "Nope" — scripture contains no list of its own books. Ananias's discrimination objection ("any heretic can say that") and his question "how did you know what books are?" were never answered. **Unanswered.**
Slick's circularity counter-charge — that Ananias grounds the councils in the Spirit and then proves the Spirit's guidance from a conciliar reading of Acts — was landed cleanly and was answered only in part, by the appeal to publicly accessible history and the cause/mechanism distinction. **Partially answered.**
Slick's perspicuity argument from "Jesus wept" won a genuine concession that not every verse requires conciliar authority; Ananias won the ground back by correctly showing the generalisation to "we don't need all these councils" does not follow. **Conceded then contained.**
Ananias's charge that Slick used extra-scriptural warrant while forbidding it to others was his best hit, and Slick defused it well: he never claimed to reject extra-biblical evidence, only to subordinate it to scripture. **Answered.**
Slick's exegetical case from Colossians 2:13–14 — *cheirographon* as a legal IOU, sin equated with debt via 1 John 3:4, Matthew 6:12 and Luke 11:4, the debt cancelled at the cross — was refused for an hour ("it's a waste of time") and finally answered in the Q&A with a rival construal: debt as separation from life paid to death, per Chrysostom and patristic consensus. **Dodged, then answered late.**
Slick's opening thesis, that Orthodox synergism damns its adherents, was never argued in over two hours. Both men spent the debate on prolegomena.
**3. Tally**
| | Sophist | Philosopher |
|---|---|---|
| Matt Slick | 30 callouts, 52 pts (4 flagrant) | 30 callouts, 41 pts |
| Fr. Ananias | 18 callouts, 32 pts (2 flagrant) | 30 callouts, 45 pts |
| Jay Dyer | 6 callouts, 12 pts (2 flagrant) | 0 |
**4. Who reasoned more soundly**
Fr. Ananias, on balance, though neither man comes off well. He carried a single coherent thesis from first minute to last, stated a criterion that could in principle count against him, corrected himself when caught misspeaking, took the costly consistent answer when told his position meant Slick could not use scripture against a Mormon, and conceded points at real cost. His failure was procedural and serious: he refused the scriptural examination at least seven times, reneged on an agreement brokered by the moderator, and declined to say what the certificate of debt meant with the passage open in front of him — then demonstrated in the Q&A that he could have done it all along. Slick reasoned well in bursts and was the better exegete by a distance; his *cheirographon* work, his Mormon internal-critique analogy, his "not rejecting is not affirming" catch, and his Luke 11:51 answer on the Deuterocanon were the sharpest individual arguments of the night. But his foundation stayed circular through three separate restatements, he applied to the councils a self-certification standard he exempted scripture from, and his conduct collapsed: four flagrant ad hominems including comparing his opponent to Satan, pronouncing him damned, attributing his refusal to unregeneracy when the moderator expressly asked for charity, and mocking the driving competence of a man who then disclosed a disability. Dyer contributed nothing but abuse and ended the debate with it. The deepest result went largely unnoticed by both: pressed to the bottom, each man grounded his authority in the Holy Spirit, and each accused the other of standing in the circle he occupied himself.Callouts
- 00:36upheld Jay Dyer · sophist: ad hominem (+1)
You are in a cult. You are not in a church. You invented your own church. Excuse me. You're a goblin, a demon, a boomer tard.
Abuse of the opponent's person substitutes for the answer to the epistemic question he was just asked about how he knows the councils are inerrant; scored minor since this is pre-debate banter.- Aristotle uphold: The quoted line is pure personal abuse (cult, goblin, demon, boomer tard) offered in place of substantiating the claim that "all the saints agree," which is a legitimate ad hominem instance. Minor severity is defensible since this occurs in pre-debate banter before the formal topic begins and after S1 had already given a substantive (if contested) answer earlier at 00:13.
- Socrates uphold: The quote is textbook ad hominem: instead of answering how he knows the councils are inerrant (or even continuing the "no continuity with history" line), S1 pivots to abusive labels ("goblin, a demon, a boomer tard") directed at the opponent's person. The label fits, and minor severity is a fair, charitable read given this occurs in the loose pre-formal-debate exchange before the moderator's structured opening (which starts at 02:01), rather than mid-argument in the actual debate.
- Plato uphold: S0 asked "How do you know?" and S1 gave a brief answer, but when S0 pressed on the assumption that saints agree, S1 immediately pivoted to insults ("you're a goblin, a demon, a boomer tard") rather than substantiating the claim. The quote is accurate and the abuse does substitute for engaging the epistemic challenge, so ad hominem (minor, given the banter context) is well-supported.
- 05:23upheld Matt Slick · philosopher: explicit argument (+1)
soteriologically, they're synergistic. And so I would say that these Orthodox does not qualify as a true Christian church and all who adhere to official east orthodox theology regarding the doctrine of salvation will end up being damned.
He states his premise (Orthodox soteriology is synergistic) and the conclusion he draws from it plainly, and flags exactly which premise he would abandon if corrected.- Aristotle uphold: The quote plainly states a premise (Orthodox soteriology is synergistic) and draws an explicit conclusion from it (Orthodoxy is not a true Christian church and its adherents are damned), which satisfies the definition of "explicit argument." Minor severity is appropriate given its brevity.
- Socrates uphold: Slick plainly states a premise (Orthodox soteriology is synergistic) and draws an explicit conclusion (not a true church, adherents damned), which fits the rubric's definition of "explicit argument" regardless of whether the premise itself is well-supported; the minor severity is appropriate given its brevity.
- Plato uphold: The quote clearly states a premise (Orthodox soteriology is synergistic), a conclusion drawn from it (not a true Christian church, adherents damned), and the surrounding text confirms he explicitly offers to revise this if corrected, matching the referee's description.
- 06:50upheld Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+2)
if you have not established the canonicity of scripture, you cannot appeal to scripture to prove the canon, let alone the correct interpretation
He states a clear conditional premise and the conclusion it yields, putting a specific burden on Slick rather than merely asserting Orthodoxy is true.- Aristotle uphold: The quote is a genuine conditional premise ("if not X, then not Y") followed immediately by the intended conclusion regarding burden of proof, which is a textbook explicit argument structure. It is also central to Fr. Ananias's whole line of questioning in this stretch, justifying the major severity.
- Socrates uphold: The quoted line is a clean conditional (if you haven't established canonicity, you can't appeal to scripture to prove the canon or its interpretation), which states a premise-conclusion structure and shifts a specific epistemic burden onto Slick rather than merely asserting Orthodoxy's truth. It is central to Fr. Ananias's line of attack in this segment, so major severity is reasonable.
- Plato uphold: The quote is a clean conditional (if X then not-Y) followed by a stated conclusion applying it to Slick's critique, matching the "explicit argument" criteria of premises plus conclusion; it is also central to Fr. Ananias's whole opening move, supporting the major severity.
- 07:27upheld Matt Slick · sophist: begging the question (+2)
I don't have to be able to demonstrate why or how we got the word of God except to say that the word of God is inspired by him.
Asked how he establishes which writings are the word of God, he answers by asserting that the word of God is inspired — which presupposes exactly the identification under dispute.- Aristotle uphold: Asked how he identifies which writings are the word of God, Slick's answer reduces to "it just is, because it's inspired" — this assumes the very identification (which texts count as inspired scripture) that was under dispute, rather than offering independent grounds. That is the textbook form of begging the question, and it recurs as his central move (repeated at 08:00 and 10:36 "I don't need any justification"), so major severity is fair.
- Socrates uphold: Fr. Ananias's question was epistemological — how do you identify which writings count as the word of God — and Slick's answer merely restates that the word of God is the word of God because it is inspired by him, without offering any criterion for identification. That is circular with respect to the very question asked, and Slick doubles down by refusing to offer justification at all in the following exchanges, so 'major' (bordering on flagrant, given its centrality) is fair.
- Plato uphold: S3 directly asked how Slick establishes which writings are the word of God; Slick's answer — that it's the word of God because it's inspired by him — merely restates the claim under dispute without independent justification, which is a textbook instance of begging the question. The exchange even continues with S3 pressing exactly this circularity, confirming it's central rather than incidental.
- 07:07upheld Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+1)
if you have a PhD in philosophy, I'd expect a little bit more precision in your logic than that
Attacks the credential rather than identifying the alleged imprecision in the canon argument he is answering; minor because a substantive reply does follow.- Aristotle uphold: The line mocks the opponent's credentials ("if you have a PhD in philosophy...") instead of specifying what was imprecise in his begging-the-question argument about canon justification; it's a personal jab rather than engagement with the substance, fitting minor ad hominem even though a substantive (if weak) reply follows.
- Socrates uphold: The line targets Fr. Ananias's credentials ("if you have a PhD in philosophy...") rather than pointing to any specific step in his circularity argument that is imprecise, which is the hallmark of ad hominem; the referee correctly scoped it as minor since Slick does go on to give substantive content afterward, so it doesn't inflate the severity beyond what's warranted.
- Plato uphold: The quoted line invokes the opponent's PhD credential to suggest his reasoning should be better, without specifying what is imprecise about the canon argument just given—this is a personal jab rather than engagement with the argument's content, fitting minor ad hominem, and the referee correctly notes a substantive reply follows.
- 08:50upheld Fr. Ananias · philosopher: direct answer (+1)
Yeah. But I have different justification for it.
Answers Slick's yes/no question about the canonical books straight, then distinguishes agreement on the conclusion from agreement on the justification — the exact issue in dispute.- Aristotle uphold: Slick asked a clear yes/no question ("Do you agree that Matthew, Mark... are inspired scripture?") and Fr. Ananias answered "Yeah" — a direct yes — before adding the substantive clarification that agreement on the conclusion doesn't equal agreement on justification, which is precisely the epistemological point in dispute. This is a textbook direct answer followed by relevant elaboration, not a dodge.
- Socrates uphold: S0 asked a plain yes/no question ("Do you agree that... are inspired scripture?"), and S3's "Yeah" is a direct, unhedged answer to it. The follow-up clause is not evasion but a relevant clarification distinguishing agreement on the conclusion from agreement on justification, which is indeed the crux of the exchange. This fits "direct answer" well and the minor severity is appropriate.
- Plato uphold: S0 asked a direct yes/no question about specific books being inspired scripture, and S3's "Yeah. But I have different justification for it" both answers yes and correctly flags that agreement on the list doesn't equal agreement on justification — which is exactly the point S3 goes on to elaborate. This is an accurate direct answer, not a dodge.
- 10:03overturned Fr. Ananias · philosopher: clarification (+2)
The question isn't about what we agree on. It's who has the justification because this is really, do you know? It's not a true belief. Somebody could get a lucky guess
He sharpens the dispute by distinguishing shared conclusions from warranted knowledge, blocking the move from "we both accept 27 books" to "my method is vindicated."- Aristotle overturn: The quoted line is not a request for definition or clarification—no question is posed—it is an assertion distinguishing justified knowledge from mere true belief, i.e., a stated premise-conclusion move. That fits "explicit argument," not "clarification."
- Socrates overturn: The quote is an assertive argument distinguishing agreement from justified true belief (with the lucky-guess point as a premise), not a request for a definition or clarification from the opponent—so "clarification" mislabels it. The philosopher credit itself is earned, but it should be labeled "explicit argument" (premises: agreement ≠ knowledge, JTB requires justification, guesses can be true without justification; conclusion: shared canon doesn't vindicate Matt's method).
- Plato overturn: The quoted passage is not a request for a definition or clarification — Fr. Ananias is asserting a substantive epistemological distinction (justified knowledge vs. mere true/lucky belief) with premises and a conclusion. That fits "explicit argument," not "clarification," which requires the speaker to be asking for a definition instead of assuming one.
- 10:27upheld Matt Slick · sophist: genetic fallacy (+2)
I'm not gonna fall into that trap. Yeah. I'm not because it's a Roman Catholic argument that you're giving.
Rejects the justification demand by labelling its supposed source rather than showing the demand is illegitimate; where an argument comes from is irrelevant to whether it succeeds.- Aristotle uphold: Slick dismisses the demand for justification purely by tagging it as "a Roman Catholic argument," without addressing whether the demand itself is sound — a textbook genetic fallacy (rejecting a claim based on its putative source rather than its merits). The quote as spoken does exactly this and offers no independent reason the demand fails.
- Socrates uphold: Slick dismisses the canon-justification demand solely by tagging it "a Roman Catholic argument" and declaring he won't "fall into that trap," without addressing whether the demand itself is sound—classic genetic fallacy. That he later offers a substantive answer (John 10:27) doesn't retroactively justify this particular move, which stands as a source-based dismissal at the moment it's made.
- Plato uphold: The quote shows Slick dismissing the justification demand specifically by labeling it "a Roman Catholic argument" rather than addressing why the demand for canon-justification is illegitimate on its merits—textbook genetic fallacy/poisoning the well. He does later offer substantive justification (inner testimony of the Holy Spirit), but that comes as a separate follow-up, not as part of this dismissal, so the callout accurately targets this specific move.
- 10:55under review Matt Slick · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+1)
Don't say I'm disingenuous. You don't know my heart. That's that's ad hominem kind of an argument here.
Correctly identifies an attack on his motives as irrelevant to the argument's merits. - 11:26under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+2)
You're supposed to you're supposed to have PhD in philosophy.
Second credential sneer in place of an answer, delivered moments after he objected to being attacked personally himself. - 11:30under review Jay Dyer · sophist: ad hominem (+2)
Here he comes with his bullshit. This is what you do every time, Matt. This is why you're terrible.
An interjection consisting entirely of abuse about Slick's character and track record, with no engagement of the canon argument on the table. - 13:06under review Matt Slick · philosopher: direct answer (+2)
The reason I believe that inspired word of God is true is because of the inner testimony of the Holy Spirit given by the Lord Jesus Christ... he worked through the apostate Roman Catholic church and even, I would say, some other people in order to bring about the preservation of his inspired word
After twice refusing the burden he finally supplies a positive account — self-authentication by the Spirit plus providential preservation — which is the answer the question was asking for. - 13:06under review Matt Slick · sophist: tu quoque (+1)
Yes. Everybody you know, everybody has everybody's circular reasons.
Answers the charge of vicious circularity by asserting bare that everyone is circular too, without arguing why that rescues his own reasoning. - 15:13under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: misrepresentation (+1)
Don't have a liturgy. You reject the councils. You reject almost everything of the early church that produced scriptures.
Attributes to Slick a wholesale rejection of the councils and fathers that Slick has not stated in this exchange; scored minor because it is a defensible generalisation about Reformed commitments rather than a fabricated quote. - 15:31under review Matt Slick · philosopher: straw man spotted (+1)
Did you hear me say I rejected any of the councils or the church fathers?
Holds his opponent to what was actually said rather than letting an unearned attribution stand as a premise. - 15:13 Fr. Ananias · summary: state of the argument
You reject the councils. You reject almost everything of the early church that produced scriptures.
Fr. Ananias is running one argument: Slick cannot appeal to scripture against Orthodoxy until he can justify the canon and its interpretation without circularity, since the canon was produced and recognised by the Church he rejects. Slick's opening claim — that Orthodox synergism is damnable — has not yet been engaged by either side; the whole exchange has stayed on prolegomena. Slick first refused the burden ("I don't accept your requirement"), which drew a genetic dismissal of the demand as "a Roman Catholic argument," then supplied a real answer: self-authentication by the inner testimony of the Spirit plus God's providential preservation of the text. That answer is now the contested claim, and Fr. Ananias's Hindu counterexample — someone else claiming the same self-authenticating recognition — is the live test of it and is so far unanswered. Ananias has also overreached once by attributing to Slick a blanket rejection of the councils, which Slick immediately challenged. Tone has degraded twice, via Slick's PhD jabs and Dyer's abuse from the sidelines. - 16:43under review Matt Slick · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+2)
To not reject is not does not necessarily mean I affirm.
Correctly identifies the invalid inference from "does not reject" to "affirms," a genuine gap in his opponent's reasoning. - 16:26under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: false dilemma (+2)
Well, wait a minute. You just said you didn't reject it, so you've already given an affirmation
Treats withholding judgement pending review as equivalent to affirmation, excluding the obvious third option Slick actually stated. - 16:43under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+2)
You're supposed to be logical. I'm serious. I'm not trying to be insulting. But if you have a PhD, you should do better.
Third and fourth appeal to the opponent's credential as a stick; the valid logical point stands on its own and the degree-shaming adds nothing but abuse. - 17:56under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: evidence (+2)
Do you, as a Calvinist, accept baptismal regeneration?
Instead of repeating the disputed attribution he tests it with a specific, checkable question about a named council, and Slick's answer substantiates the charge he was challenged on. - 18:00under review Matt Slick · philosopher: direct answer (+1)
I do not believe that water baptism by immersion, sprinkling, or or pouring regenerates an individual.
Answers a question whose answer plainly costs him ground, without hedging. - 18:42under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: concession (+1)
Alright. Well, let me let me just qualify and make a correction on what I said.
Withdraws an inaccurate phrasing ("prior to scripture") as soon as it is corrected instead of defending the slip. - 19:43under review Matt Slick · philosopher: clarification (+1)
You need to ask questions to see if I believe something or affirm something or not.
Asks that his position be established by inquiry rather than inferred from a label, which is the right remedy for the repeated attribution problem. - 20:48under review Matt Slick · sophist: begging the question (+2)
I'm correct in so far as it agrees with what the scripture says.
Asked how he knows his interpretation is the correct one, he offers a criterion — agreement with scripture — that requires the very interpretation in question to apply. - 20:41under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: hasty generalisation (+1)
knowing what I know of Calvinism, I think it'll be safe to assume that you reject a lot of the other ones too
Immediately after being asked to establish Slick's views by questioning rather than inference, he reverts to assuming them from the label. - 21:40under review Matt Slick · philosopher: clarification (+1)
You wanna see if I have the right interpretation. That means you'll be able to judge my interpretation of scripture. Right?
Exposes a tension in his opponent's position — rejecting private judgement while proposing to adjudicate Slick's reading — and asks him to resolve it rather than assuming the contradiction. - 23:37under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+2)
you're taking an evidentialist approach, and I would think that you, you know, given the little I know, and maybe I'm wrong, and you can correct me like you have before. I would think that you're against this kind of methodology of evidentialism.
A genuine internal critique — that Slick the presuppositionalist is now requesting neutral evidential adjudication — offered with an explicit invitation to be corrected. - 23:50under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+1)
that's why I'm calling it a red herring to let's analyze scripture, but I don't grant that.
Having agreed to examine Colossians 2 and begun reading it, he withdraws from the examination rather than engaging the text he consented to; scored minor because he gives a principled reason for refusing. - 25:28under review Matt Slick · philosopher: explicit argument (+2)
If you go to John eleven thirty five, it says Jesus wept. Short verse. Do we need the authority of the church and church fathers to interpret it?
A well-chosen minimal counterexample that tests whether the claim "no interpretation without the Church" holds universally, forcing his opponent to either concede or bite the bullet. - 26:04under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: concession (+1)
you might be right. Can you get certain in some sense, you are, but each proposition doesn't exist in isolation.
Grants the force of the counterexample rather than denying the obvious, then narrows his claim to the holistic point he actually needs. - 27:33under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: self-contradiction (+2)
No. Did I say that you need every single
Asked at 25:37 "Do we need the authority of the church and church fathers to interpret it?" he answered "Yes"; asked the same question about the same verse he now answers "No," and reframes rather than acknowledging the reversal. - 28:52under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+2)
I can explain that, but that's, again, gonna go off topic.
He introduced the Christological entailments of "Jesus wept" as his reason for needing the Church, and then declined to develop them when Slick expressly invited him to. - 29:07under review Matt Slick · sophist: hasty generalisation (+1)
But you know that Jesus wept. You agreed. He's he wept. That's what I said. What's the big deal? We don't need all these councils.
Generalises from agreement on the plainest sentence in the New Testament to the sufficiency of private reading across all doctrine, which is exactly the inference his opponent had just restricted. - 30:14under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+2)
what I'm saying is the question is not about how do we know that councils are correct. It is. How do you know that this is a question that Christ established this authority?
Slick asked "how do you know the council is right?" four times and Ananias twice replaced it with a different question of his own before finally answering. - 30:36under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: direct answer (+1)
Through the holy spirit, the same way that you would know through that this is what Christ established.
He does eventually give the answer asked for, and notably gives the same kind of answer Slick gave for the canon, which puts both men's ultimate criteria on a par. - 30:36 Fr. Ananias · summary: state of the argument
Through the holy spirit, the same way that you would know through that this is what Christ established.
Thirty minutes in and the debate has reached a genuine symmetry. Fr. Ananias's case is that Slick cannot justify canon or interpretation without circularity, since both were fixed by the Church he opposes; Slick's case is that the canon and its plain sense are self-authenticating through the inner testimony of the Spirit and God's providence. Under pressure each man has now grounded his ultimate authority in exactly the same way — the Holy Spirit — which blunts Ananias's circularity charge, since he too must stop somewhere. Slick's "Jesus wept" counterexample won a real concession that not every verse requires conciliar authority, but he then overextended it to the councils generally; Ananias's holism and Christological reply is the right answer in principle but he refused to develop it when invited. Slick's opening claim that Orthodox synergism damns its adherents remains completely untouched — thirty minutes on prolegomena and no soteriology yet. Ananias reversed himself on whether church authority is needed for John 11:35; Slick has repeatedly answered the interpretive-authority question with criteria that presuppose his own reading. - 31:08under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+2)
Do you need with every single thing somebody to step in and tell you, no. You don't. Does that then follow that you don't need the episcopals and the structure of the church to be a normative body, no. That's false. That doesn't follow.
Cleanly separates the concession he made from the conclusion Slick drew from it and correctly identifies the step as a non sequitur, while owning the earlier ambiguity in his own answer. - 32:46under review Matt Slick · sophist: false dilemma (+2)
I wanna go to God's word, directly to God's word to test to see if you're on the right track, and you don't wanna do it. You wanna go to man's avulged. You haven't You wanna go hold on. You wanna go to man's councils, man's traditions, man's authority.
Frames the choice as God's word versus man's authority moments after Ananias explicitly grounded the councils in the Holy Spirit and Christ's institution — the disputed claim is assumed false rather than refuted. - 33:51under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+2)
You have a fallible list of infallible books by fallible men... You have to borrow from Orthodox principles and then deny them at the same time, and you can't do that.
His fullest statement of the borrowed-capital thesis: the premise (the canon was fixed by principles Slick rejects), the charge (Slick uses those results while denying their source), and the conclusion (self-refutation) are all stated plainly. - 35:47under review Matt Slick · sophist: misrepresentation (+2)
I asked him, for example, how does he know the councils are correct? He can't answer.
Ananias answered that question five minutes earlier — "Through the holy spirit, the same way that you would know" — so the claim that no answer was given is contradicted by the transcript. - 36:40under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: evidence (+2)
you get a precedent of this in acts. You get the early councils where it says it seemed good to, and all the ecumenical councils, it seemed good to us and the holy spirit.
Answers the repeated question about conciliar authority and backs it with a specific, checkable scriptural precedent rather than bare assertion — and does so from the text Slick accepts. - 37:30under review Matt Slick · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+2)
how do you know that they're true? Because you said the Holy Spirit. Right? And then what you did was you said that the Holy Spirit supports your position, so you gave us some nice interpretation.
Correctly points out that grounding the councils in the Spirit and then citing a conciliar reading of Acts to prove the Spirit guides councils is the same circle Ananias accused him of. - 38:45under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+1)
That's not something that's presupposed in my view. That's that's something that's university and publicly accessible.
A direct answer to the circularity charge just levelled at him: he claims the historical record of the Church's organisation is public evidence available to anyone, not a premise smuggled in from his own tradition. - 40:15under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: clarification (+1)
Through implies mechanism. So now you're confusing categories. That's why I asked you. You asked me by what how do I know by what cause? The holy spirit, the same as you.
Distinguishes the cause of his knowledge from the mechanism by which it reaches him, which blocks Slick's attempt to convert his answer into a claim of private inner revelation. - 40:44under review Matt Slick · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+1)
You beg the question means you're assuming the thing to be true you're trying to prove. So I ask you how you know the holy spirit is working that through these councils, you appeal to the councils.
Defines the fallacy and then shows precisely where the opponent's answer instantiates it, rather than throwing the term as a label. - 43:38under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+1)
One way to test that is, is this what all Christians believed at all times? Look at history.
Proposes a stated, in-principle falsifiable test for adjudicating between competing claims to Christ's teaching, rather than resting on the bare authority of his own tradition. - 45:00under review Matt Slick · sophist: appeal to authority (+1)
I've been doing this for forty years. Okay? And I've talked to thousands and thousands of people.
Offers his own experience as the response to a challenge about whether his question was loaded, which bears on his standing rather than on the question's structure. - 46:23under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+1)
Because when I answered holy spirit, it wasn't satisfactory.
Asked by the moderator to show what makes the question loaded, he cites his opponent's dissatisfaction rather than identifying any false presupposition the question carries — which is not a ground for declining to answer. - 47:59under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+2)
There's a false dichotomy. That's exactly what I wanted you to say. So I got you on that.
He had flagged in advance that the question presupposed an either/or, then correctly identified the unargued restriction when Slick asserted the Spirit witnesses to Christ but not to councils. - 48:23under review Matt Slick · philosopher: concession (+1)
Of course, I do.
Grants without hedging that the Holy Spirit can work through church councils, conceding the disjunction he had just asserted. - 48:27 Fr. Ananias · summary: state of the argument
Infallibly?
The last twenty minutes have been a single contest over warrant. Ananias's live claims: the canon and its interpretation come from a normative body established by Christ; his ground is the Holy Spirit, with the mechanism being public history testable by the Vincentian canon of what was believed everywhere and always. Slick's live claims: scripture is self-authenticating by the Spirit's inner testimony, and the plain sense of texts like John 11:35 needs no conciliar authority. Slick won a concession that not every verse requires the Church; Ananias won it back by showing that does not entail the Church is not normative. Slick landed a genuine hit by showing Ananias grounds the councils in the Spirit and then proves the Spirit's guidance from a conciliar reading of Acts. Ananias just extracted Slick's concession that the Spirit can work through councils, and the word "Infallibly?" is where the argument now turns. Still entirely absent after forty-eight minutes: any defence of Slick's opening claim that Orthodox synergism damns its adherents. - 48:34under review Matt Slick · sophist: begging the question (+2)
Because the word of God is is inspired to only thing said to be inspired is the word of God.
Asked how he knows the councils are not inspired, he answers that only the word of God is inspired — which assumes the restricted scope of inspiration that is precisely what Ananias disputes; third instance of the same move. - 49:50under review Matt Slick · philosopher: clarification (+1)
I didn't say if it's not in the Bible, it's not true because I can drive my car in the right hand side of the road. It's not in the Bible. Doesn't mean it's not true.
Distinguishes his actual request — scriptural warrant for a specific doctrinal claim — from the universal principle attributed to him, and illustrates the difference with a clean counterexample. - 48:48under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+1)
they start off saying it seemed good to us and the holy spirit. Those prayers, the word of God is present, and they claim to be infallible just like scripture.
Presses a parity argument: the councils make the same claim to Spirit-guided infallibility as the scriptures, so excluding them requires a criterion Slick has not supplied. - 50:04under review Matt Slick · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+1)
If you go to those councils to say the council say, hey. Look. We're the councils. We have authority. How do we know we have authority? Because we said so. That's begging the question, not acceptable.
Correctly identifies that an authority certifying its own authority is circular, which is a real problem for the conciliar case as stated. - 50:18under review Matt Slick · sophist: special pleading (+2)
The inspired word of God, which we know is inspired, which Jesus gave to the apostles
In the same breath as rejecting the councils for self-certifying, he certifies scripture by asserting "we know it is inspired" — applying a standard to his opponent that he exempts himself from. - 52:30under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+2)
You're not first of all, you're not allowed to say it's the inspired word of God. You haven't justified that.
Slick has now asked four times for scriptural warrant for apostolic succession, and each time the request is refused on prolegomena grounds rather than answered even conditionally on Slick's own premises. - 53:02under review Matt Slick · sophist: non sequitur (+2)
The holy spirit bore witness in me. On the day of my conversion when the very presence of the holy spirit himself was there... And I knew it was him, and I knew his word was true from that moment on
A conversion experience of Christ's presence, however vivid, does not by itself yield which twenty-seven books constitute the canon — the question he was asked — and when pressed on exactly that he replies only "that's the way it is." - 53:26under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: clarification (+1)
know that, and how did you know what books are?
Puts his finger on the precise gap in the testimony: an experience of the Spirit's witness does not deliver a list of canonical books. - 54:54under review Matt Slick · philosopher: explicit argument (+2)
When I talk to a Mormon, I don't believe in the Book of Mormon, but I will use the Book of Mormon... I can use their logic. I can use their references, their worldview against them because their worldview doesn't adhere to the truth.
A clean answer to the borrowed-capital charge: arguing from a text on an opponent's own premises is internal critique, not endorsement, which shows Ananias could engage the scriptural request without conceding anything. - 58:29under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: direct answer (+2)
No. I should not. Position to affirm that it's the word of God.
Faced with a deliberately costly yes/no — may Slick use scripture against a Mormon — he bites the bullet consistently with his stated principle instead of softening it, which is what intellectual honesty looks like even when the answer is unpalatable. - 57:19under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+1)
You are so full of it. You keep saying these things, and then you wanna run on it.
Abuse inserted in place of the counter-argument to the point Ananias had just made about interpretation. - 58:48under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+3)
I know who would say that. I know who would say that. Satan.
Associates his opponent with Satan rather than answering the principled reason given for the refusal, having explicitly disclaimed doing exactly this ten minutes earlier. - 61:20under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+1)
Any heretic can say that... Every heretic will say, well, the holy spirit led me to
States the core objection to inner testimony as a criterion: it does not discriminate between rival claimants, so it cannot by itself settle which books or doctrines are true. - 61:54under review Matt Slick · sophist: appeal to emotion (+2)
By the way, I've carried the body of my son to the grave. I wept that day. Now you never have to experience that.
A genuinely terrible bereavement, but it is inserted into an answer about the mechanism of knowing the canon, where it does no evidential work and functions as a rebuke to his opponent. - 62:10under review Matt Slick · philosopher: concession (+1)
if you ask me how I know, all I can tell you tell you is I just knew. That's all that's my only answer.
Openly admits he has no further account to give, marking the terminus of his justification rather than manufacturing one — honest, though it leaves the discrimination objection standing. - 65:21under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+2)
it seems to me that you appeal to extra scriptural principles to verify scripture, which you said you don't allow. So this seems to be ad hoc
Identifies a real inconsistency: Slick's warrant for the canon is a personal experience outside scripture, yet he refuses Ananias any extra-scriptural warrant — the same special pleading pattern seen at 50:18. - 67:01under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: concession (+1)
I will give it to you that you did give a chance to try to justify that
Credits his opponent for having attempted the justification he had repeatedly demanded, and states his objections as corrigible readings rather than accusations. - 67:14 Fr. Ananias · summary: state of the argument
against your own solo scripture of principle by using extra biblical evidence and principles, which seems to be self contradictory
The debate has resolved into one clean disagreement. Slick's warrant for the canon is now fully on the table: the Holy Spirit's inner testimony at his conversion, which he candidly admits terminates in "I just knew." Ananias's warrant is the Spirit working through a publicly checkable mechanism — apostolic succession, the councils, and the Vincentian test of what was believed everywhere and always. Two objections are live against Slick and unanswered: that inner testimony cannot discriminate between rival claimants who say the same thing, and that his own warrant is extra-scriptural, which his stated principle forbids. Two are live against Ananias: that grounding the councils in the Spirit and then proving the Spirit's guidance from a conciliar reading of Acts is circular, and that he refused six requests to argue from scripture even conditionally, admitting "I can, but I don't want to." Ananias took the costly consistent answer on the Mormon question; Slick answered a principled refusal by invoking Satan. Slick's opening thesis — that Orthodox synergism damns — has never been argued at all across sixty-seven minutes. - 67:53under review Matt Slick · philosopher: clarification (+2)
I do not deny extra biblical principles or evidences. I just check them and compare them with scripture, even the church councils. I did not say that the holy spirit can only work through scripture.
Directly defuses the strongest objection against him by distinguishing rejecting extra-biblical evidence from subordinating it to scripture, which is a coherent position and not the one he was charged with. - 68:34under review Matt Slick · philosopher: direct answer (+1)
God working through church councils and histories is not infallible, not intended to be inscripturated.
Supplies the criterion Ananias's parity argument demanded — a stated distinction between infallible inscripturated revelation and non-infallible providential working. - 69:05under review Matt Slick · philosopher: clarification (+1)
When you say infallibly, you're not defining what you mean in some context.
Asks for the term to be defined before answering, then illustrates the distinction he needs with a case of true prophecy that is nonetheless not canonical. - 71:25under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: ad hominem (+2)
That experience that you have, it's called spiritual delusion,
Disposes of his opponent's stated warrant by naming it a pathology rather than arguing why it fails, immediately after being told the conversion account in detail. - 71:38under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+3)
Well, you're obviously on your way to hell. That's for sure.
Answers the charge against his experience with a pronouncement of his opponent's damnation, which settles nothing and is the second consecration of abuse after the Satan comparison. - 72:21under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+3)
Can we go to scripture? Can we no. We can't. I can, but that's not my apologetic method right now.
He agreed to the moderator at 59:28 to go through a couple of passages if the principle could be revisited, and now refuses outright for at least the seventh time while admitting he is able to do it. - 73:54under review Matt Slick · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+2)
Here's the hypocrisy in your position. You say you don't wanna play by my game. You only want me to play by yours.
Identifies the genuine asymmetry in Ananias's method: he demands Slick justify himself by Ananias's standard while refusing to engage Slick's on even a conditional basis. - 74:56under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: moving the goalposts (+2)
We can agree that certain things of the word of God, but you have a specific understanding of this is the only word of God. I'm calling that into question.
His stated reason for refusing the text was that "it's not agreed upon what the word of God is"; when Slick secures agreement that Colossians is God's word, the requirement shifts to Slick's view of exclusivity. - 76:25under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+3)
I believe it's because he's afraid of the word of God because he's not regenerate. He's serving a false master
Asked explicitly by the moderator to give the most charitable account of his opponent's refusal, he attributes it to unregeneracy and service to a false master, ignoring the stated methodological reason given repeatedly. - 77:55under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: direct answer (+2)
So I've chosen not to not because I'm afraid of scripture... The reason why I don't wanna do it, it's not a wise debate move because, ultimately, we'll get into hermeneutics of private interpretation, both claiming to have the same cause
Answers the moderator's blunt question without evasion and gives the actual reason — that duelling exegesis without an agreed criterion is unresolvable — which is a coherent ground even if one rejects it. - 77:23under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: special pleading (+1)
Jesus didn't give you a Bible. He gave you a church, and the apostles testify to this. It says, it is the church that's the pillar and ground of truth, not scripture.
Argues his own case from a scriptural proof text while refusing on principle to examine the scriptural texts his opponent offers. - 79:06under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: evidence (+2)
Saint Paul tells us in Thessalonians, you're to hold fast to the and stand fast and hold those traditions, which were taught to you either by word-of-mouth or written.
He finally does the thing he refused for an hour, and does it properly — citing John 21:25 and 2 Thessalonians with quoted text to support oral tradition alongside scripture. - 80:43under review Matt Slick · sophist: misrepresentation (+1)
I just wanna go look at the scriptures. You keep
Said immediately after Ananias cited 1 Timothy 3:15, John 21:25 and 2 Thessalonians and posed an exegetical question, which is precisely the engagement Slick had been demanding. - 83:10under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: special pleading (+2)
I don't have to, and I for strategic reasons, go to whatever verse that you want. Now I thought we agreed that we could go to scripture, and I just wanted to I pulled some scriptures.
Rejects the moderator's symmetric compromise — each side picks a verse — while claiming the right to cite his own texts, which is exactly the asymmetry Slick identified. - 81:29under review Matt Slick · sophist: unsupported assertion (+1)
as far as second Thessalonians two goes, you took it out of context. You don't know the context of the tradition there or second Thessalonians three six.
Declares the citation out of context without ever stating what the context is or how it changes the meaning, so the rebuttal is asserted rather than shown. - 84:54under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: genetic fallacy (+2)
So I have start the the Protestant meth methodology without that being justified.
Slick accepted the moderator's symmetric compromise; Ananias refuses it by labelling verse-by-verse examination "the Protestant methodology," rejecting a procedure by its supposed origin rather than showing it unfair. - 83:53under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+1)
You remind me of the cultists I've had to deal with over and over again. You twist what I say.
Likens his opponent to cult members in place of showing where his words were twisted. - 86:18under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: concession (+2)
So I'll do that if you want. What is it? Colossians two fourteen, but I'm making a point that you're not justified in either the hermeneutics or calling this the word of god.
Agrees to the examination he has refused for an hour, registering his objection rather than continuing to block — the right way to proceed under protest. - 87:36under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+2)
What are you afraid of? You're you are obviously squirming and obviously afraid to go look at God's word.
Ananias had just agreed to go to Colossians 2:14; instead of proceeding, Slick continues the taunt, which both misstates the position and delays the examination he says he wants. - 89:37under review Matt Slick · philosopher: evidence (+2)
the Greek there is the Greek word kerografon. It only occurs right there. It means a handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness.
Moves from assertion to checkable detail — the term, its uniqueness in the New Testament, its lexical sense, and the variant translations — which anyone can verify against him. - 88:54under review Matt Slick · sophist: misrepresentation (+1)
since you don't wanna go to God's word, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take my time
Said immediately after Ananias invited him with "Go ahead. Colossians two fourteen, Matt," so the refusal being described is not happening. - 90:04 Matt Slick · summary: state of the argument
having canceled out the certificate of debt. Now when is it canceled out?
After ninety minutes the debate has finally reached a text. Slick is arguing from Colossians 2:13-14 that the debt is cancelled at the cross, which he will use against synergistic soteriology — his original thesis, untouched until now. Ananias's counter-case is on the record too: John 21:25 that not all Christ taught was written, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 that traditions were delivered orally and in writing, and 1 Timothy 3:15 that the Church is the pillar of truth; he asks on what principle all essential teaching must be inscripturated, and that question is unanswered. The prolegomena stalemate is genuine and mutual: Slick's warrant terminates in "I just knew," which cannot discriminate rival claimants; Ananias grounds the councils in the Spirit and evidences the Spirit from the councils. Ananias has now conceded the procedure under protest; Slick, having got what he demanded, spent two more turns on taunts before opening the text. Conduct has been poor on both sides, with three flagrant abuses from Slick and repeated blocking from Ananias. - 91:04under review Matt Slick · philosopher: explicit argument (+2)
Jesus equates sin with legal debt... The sin debt's canceled at the cross, canceled at the cross. If it's canceled, can you go to hell for a debt that doesn't exist anymore?
Builds the case in visible steps — transgression as law-breaking from 1 John 3:4, sin as debt from Matthew 6:12 and Luke 11:4, then cancellation at the cross from Colossians 2:14 — with each premise sourced and the conclusion following from them. - 92:05under review Matt Slick · sophist: false dilemma (+1)
If you wanna say that the sin debt's canceled only for for everybody, but it's up to you to believe, No. The validity of the sin debts canceling is not based upon your belief. That's justification, another topic.
Forces a choice between universalism and limited atonement, and disposes of the obvious third option — an accomplished cancellation applied on a condition — by relabelling it "another topic" rather than refuting it. - 92:52under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+2)
you're presupposing the your particular understanding of the scriptures and saying you have to show me from the scriptures.
Having agreed to examine Colossians 2:14 and been handed a detailed exegetical argument with an express invitation to show where it errs, he returns immediately to the presupposition objection instead of engaging the text. - 93:09under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: evidence (+1)
the commentaries from John Chrysostom et al, they don't have the same notions of they don't have limited atonement.
Names a specific patristic commentator on the passage and makes a claim about his reading that can be checked, which is a substantive response to the exegesis even though it argues from reception rather than the text. - 94:43under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+2)
You're afraid of God's word. You're afraid to look at God's word and just and just open up and read it for yourself. You gotta submit yourself and drink the the e o p l a.
Yet another round of "you're afraid" plus a Kool-Aid jibe instead of answering the methodological objection just stated; this has been his default response for the last twenty minutes. - 94:54under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: ad hominem (+1)
look. You're you're a really mean and nasty person.
Answers abuse with a verdict on his opponent's character, which is provoked but still not an argument. - 100:00under review Fr. Ananias · sophist: dodge (+3)
Because this stuff hinges on first principles, and it's a waste of time.
Asked the plainest possible question — explain what the certificate of debt is — with the passage open in front of him and after agreeing to examine it, he declines outright; the culmination of a refusal repeated across the whole debate. - 97:17under review Matt Slick · philosopher: concession (+1)
The word of God does not justify itself. God assumes and the scriptures assume their inspiration and their place of authority.
Openly grants that scripture's authority is assumed rather than demonstrated, which concedes the structure of the circularity charge even as he defends it as the proper starting point. - 100:14under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+1)
the way paradigms and worldviews are analyzed is not piecemeal by agreeing to, well, we all agree to words and logic, but you rise to the level of principles and the justification for those principles.
States his governing methodological principle plainly in closing, so his refusals through the debate can be assessed against a stated standard rather than guessed at. - 103:13under review Matt Slick · philosopher: fallacy spotted (+1)
when I appeal to the same thing you did, you had a double standard at that point and said, no. I can't do that.
Presses the genuine symmetry of the debate — both men ultimately ground their authority in the Holy Spirit — though he does not engage Ananias's cause/mechanism distinction, which is the reply available to it. - 103:36under review Matt Slick · philosopher: clarification (+1)
you said, I'm an evidentialist. No. I'm a presuppositionalist.
Corrects a mislabelling of his own method that had been used against him earlier, which matters because the internal-inconsistency charge depended on it. - 107:03under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+3)
This guy violated so many rules of debate and so many rules of logic. I'm surprised he can drive a car.
Closes his summation with mockery of his opponent's basic competence in place of the alleged rule violations, which he does not name. - 110:06under review Matt Slick · philosopher: direct answer (+1)
Nope.
Asked whether scripture anywhere lists which books belong in scripture, he concedes flatly that it does not, without qualification or deflection. - 111:00under review Jay Dyer · sophist: ad hominem (+3)
I don't need to because I've heard your stupid answer for twenty years. Okay. Moderators, can you please get this guy? Get get rid of him. Matt, you're you're a loser, dude.
Refuses to let his target answer on the grounds that the answer is already known to be stupid, then closes with straight name-calling — dismissal in place of engagement. - 112:29under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: direct answer (+2)
I didn't only. However, I was actually thinking of bringing that up that on the same methodology that Matt was giving about what he identified the word of god, I could identify the councils
Answers the audience question without evasion, concedes the questioner's point that the route was open to him, and states the parity argument cleanly: Slick's own method for identifying scripture would equally identify the councils. - 113:34under review Matt Slick · sophist: non sequitur (+1)
He appealed to the Holy Spirit and church councils. I appealed to the Holy Spirit and church councils... I also added in the word of God... He didn't add the scriptures.
The parity argument was that Slick's own criterion for identifying scripture would equally identify the councils; answering with a tally of which sources each man cited leaves that untouched, as Ananias immediately points out. - 116:15under review Jay Dyer · sophist: poisoning the well (+1)
Here comes the Gnosticism. Here comes Matt with his Gnosticism.
Attaches a heresy label to an exegesis of Colossians 2:12 while it is still being delivered, pre-empting the argument rather than answering it. - 115:12under review Matt Slick · sophist: ad hominem (+1)
it sounds like he's he sounds like he might be demonically
Suggests demonic influence as the explanation for an opponent's position, continuing a pattern of spiritual diagnosis in place of rebuttal. - 116:55under review Jay Dyer · sophist: ad hominem (+2)
I don't believe Matt deserves respect because this is what Matt does every time. He's a dishonest debater... I knew he would leave when I came here because he doesn't debate honestly.
Impugns his target's honesty and invents a motive for a disappearance that turns out to have been a technical mute, as the stream immediately establishes when Slick returns. - 119:28under review Matt Slick · philosopher: evidence (+1)
Romans six six says we're we died with Christ. Romans six eight says we're crucified with Christ. Colossians three says we died with Christ.
Answers the audience's exegetical question by naming the doctrine and stacking specific cross-references that establish the "with him" pattern he is reading into Colossians 2:12. - 123:31under review Matt Slick · sophist: straw man (+2)
You don't even know what presuppositionalism is because you wouldn't say what you just did if you knew... Presuppositionalists can use evidence, and they can use reason.
Ananias's charge was that Slick treats evidence as neutral ground, not that presuppositionalists may never use evidence; Slick refutes a claim not made and adds a competence sneer. - 123:50under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: clarification (+1)
I didn't say that... The mistaken assumption that you're making is that evidence is neutral and can be approached in a neutral way
Restates his objection precisely against a misreading, locating the disagreement in the neutrality of evidence rather than in whether presuppositionalists may cite it. - 124:53under review Matt Slick · philosopher: concession (+2)
Can you approach evidence in a neutral way without having presuppositions Nobody can.
Grants the premise Ananias had been pressing all night — that there is no neutral approach to evidence — which is a real point of convergence rather than a rhetorical retreat. - 132:11under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: evidence (+1)
when Philip asked him, does thou understand us with Arius? And the Ethiopian eunuch says, how can I let somebody interpret it for me?
Supports his interpretive-authority claim with a specific scriptural episode rather than bare assertion, which is the kind of argument he had been declining to make for most of the debate. - 132:32under review Fr. Ananias · philosopher: explicit argument (+2)
on the understanding of what debt means and punishment, this is in terms of the consequences of breaking away from life and the debt paid to death... just because we're using the same verses does not mean that we understand them the same way
Finally supplies the competing reading of Colossians 2:14 — debt as the consequence of separation from life rather than a legal IOU — which both answers Slick's exegesis and demonstrates his abstract point about paradigms with a concrete case. - 134:01under review Matt Slick · philosopher: clarification (+1)
How do you know what he said is correct? How do you know? You just assume that the church fathers got it right, and then you assume, well, the church fathers said this as a consensus, which when I wouldn't check all that stuff out, it is not always such great consensus as everybody says.
Applies Ananias's own justification demand to the patristic consensus itself and disputes that the consensus is as uniform as claimed, which is the right pressure point on an argument from continuity. - 135:16under review Matt Slick · philosopher: direct answer (+2)
we would have to submit all of our subjective experiences to the scriptures. Jesus said from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, he was given the first and last book of the Old Testament... He said this in Luke eleven fifty one.
Answers the question designed to trap his own criterion by denying that bare experience settles canon and offering specific textual evidence for the Old Testament boundary — the best answer he gives on the canon all night. - 135:48under review Jay Dyer · sophist: ad hominem (+3)
Matt, are you this low IQ?
An insult delivered on top of a substantive scriptural answer, and the immediate cause of the debate ending with the participant walking out.